A thought on how we respond...

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jpsorrell

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I read magnumDweeb's post "are Anti's enemies" and It really got me to thinking about how we approach discussions with anti's.

It seems to me that most of the time we talk about conversations with antis as trying to inform confused/naive people. I am assuming that most of the "education" takes the form of correcting misinformation: giving them facts about how guns help reduce crime, that there are already stringent requirements for legally owning handguns, that there is no "gun show loophole" etc. I'm new here, so I apologize if this is a bad generalization, and one that I am certainly guilty of.

I wonder if answering these questions and providing these facts is really the most effective way to help people understand our mentality.

I'm going to pull a concept from religious arguments (another area where heated arguments tend to take place).

Often, we would be better to answer questions with questions, than actually answering what we have been asked.
It seems counter intuitive, but many people ask questions without ever being interested in getting an answer. They use the question to make a statement of their beliefs or to start an argument. We can use a question to make them start thinking.

Picture this example: Someone walks up to you as asks "Why do you feel the need to carry a gun?" We could respond "To protect myself, and my family" This would be true, but most likely they would carry on with whatever argument they had intended to start without engaging their minds. Instead if we responded "What would you do if someone was to threaten you or the ones you loved and you had no gun?" Now they are forced to start thinking about their ability to protect what they love.

Note: Like anything else, this has to be done in a non-escalating, non-sarcastic way.

(I have taken this concept from Randy Newman's book "Questioning Evangelism")

So here is my question... Do you guys think this applies? You would really have to be on your toes and prepared to use this method so: What are some other common questions we are faced with - and how could we use a counter question to make people think? Any real life examples?
 
I've always found that stating a good irrefutable fact is always a good way to make a persuadable person think twice. If they realize that criminals won't follow another gun control law they have to do some thinking about why more law is required.

Someone here has a sig-line about a 110 lb. woman fist fighting a 210 lb. rapist. That is a good point to mention and I don't know of a response that they could offer in opposition to it.
 
I'm not a big political guy nor do I know all the facts when it comes to guns and crime and rates and statistics, so I tend to avoid discussions with antis because I don't want to dig myself a hole due to my ignorance to the issue.
 
JP,
I think your post is spot-on. I can not even elaborate more on what you said, because I think your post says it all.
 
Taking a quote from the "Are Antis Enemies":

Instead they start saying we are nuts, killing people(never have killed anyone and hope to never have to, and I'm pretty sure my fellow patrons hadn't either). And accusing us southernners of all kinds of horrific acts.

If an anti had approached me in such a manner, I think my first question would be, "If you think I'm such a voilent person capable of such horrible acts, than why are getting in my face saying such all sorts of those mean things? Either you don't really believe what you are saying about me or you do believe them and you're just suicidal."

Just a thought.
 
I'm going to say that not everyone on the other side is the "enemy"--only the ones who have the "don't confuse me with facts my mind is made up" attitude and an agenda. I knew several folks who were on the other side of the fence that I was able to turn to ours or at least "neutral acceptance" back in my college days...
 
Quote:
Instead they start saying we are nuts, killing people(never have killed anyone and hope to never have to, and I'm pretty sure my fellow patrons hadn't either). And accusing us southernners of all kinds of horrific acts.

If an anti had approached me in such a manner, I think my first question would be, "If you think I'm such a voilent person capable of such horrible acts, than why are getting in my face saying such all sorts of those mean things? Either you don't really believe what you are saying about me or you do believe them and you're just suicidal."
That's hilarious :D
 
Let us understand that the answer to our needs will be realized if we reach out to each other with a sincere exchange of the spirit of love, conciliation and good will.

Any sort of swaggering and threatening talk is silly, ineffective, and could even be counterproductive.
 
Sirvey, Coromo

Why did I not realize this thread would end here? :D

You guys crack me up!!
 
If I ever get the "cops and soldiers" argument, my first question is, "why do cops need guns?" Ironically, they need them for the same reason we do -- self defense. I'd like to see an anti explain why a cop gets to defend himself but we don't.
 
There are sheep ready for the shaving and there are wolves. I prefer to have a chance with the Shepard's Crook thank you.

I flip that little question back onto the Anti. Ive/we already taken the necessary steps within our resources to solve the security problem. Now it's time to bring others into the light and turn them from sheep into family protectors.
 
Many people simply don't want to think about bad things happening, and have an irrational fear that if they plan for something bad, it will come true. In gun arguments, this mindset is often turned around and projected on gun owners in accusatory terms: "You want a gun therefore, you must want to shoot someone."

Not all antis fall into this category. Those that do are best met with understanding. Talking about the possibility of defending yourself or your family will only make them more uncomfortable, and reinforces their suspicion that you secretly desire to shoot someone.

I have found that expressing a personal fear of helplessness places the discussion in a realm that they understand. I have prepared myself with CPR training, first aid training, emergency preparedness training and usefull tools not because I plan to use it or desire to be a hero. I am prepared because I fear not being capable in an emergency. By minimizing the gun (after all it is only a small part of your life) I am able to focus the discussion on preparedness and knowledge, and equate weapons to usefull tools no different than a wrench or first aid kit.

Most people at some point in their childhood have had an experience where something bad happened and they were not prepared. They remember that sick feeling of helplessness as they stood frozen without any idea of what to do. Preparedness is not about living in fear. Preparedness is about living with the confidence that you will never experience the sick feeling of not knowing what to do.

It is late. I would like to wordsmith this post a bit more, but I need to get to bed...
 
There are many peace loving families who live without guns or bad things happening to them. That is wonderful. But such sheltered oasis of safety can be breached at a moment's notice and they will just be cut down where they stand.

There are many people who wish to enjoy life and not worry about gloom doom and death injuries etc. To make matters worse, some folks think that thier finanical status or social status higher up means that no one will do anything bad to them. What a delusion.

One poster commented that we have gotten guns maybe we must want to kill someone. Not true. What we refuse to do is be on our knees in front of some little child who aint got past 15 and the putz wants to take us and whatever combined years close to a century of living off the face of the earth because THEY got a gun (aww. what a no no...) and go do something because all they encounter should bow down before the almightly bangbang so that they get what they want by force.

Aint happening.

If I see a spider and recognize it as a danger to the family, it's going to get killed. Other spiders are captured and then killed away from the home. Sometimes the house is gassed in the springtime from foundation all the way to the attic to get all spiders and such.

I cannot gas a punk but I'/we can break out the boom and remove the problem. Sure there is prosecution, courts yadda yadda yadda... but.. it's all worth it because we have defended our home. We aint running or begging.

Antis live in a dream world where all things equal the Mary Poppins and the only gun in sight is the nuisance neighbor who is too far gone with his sea stories to know better.
 
I've had some pretty reasonable debates with fairly intelligent folks, friends who were antis, or on the edge of being anti. Sometimes, no matter the argument, you can't change someone's mind about things they feel strongly about. It's a rare individual that can feel very strongly about an issue, listen to reasoned, logical debate and counter-discussion, and arrive at an unbiased, new opinion. That hardly ever happens. Guns inspire an emotional response in our opponents: No dispassionate rebuttal will convince these people of the error of their ways. I would opine that most of these individuals have never had to protect themselves or their loved ones, or been accosted/surprised by dark forces greater than themselves. God bless our men in LE uniform, as they keep the insanity at bay, but they cannot nor should be everywhere.

Rhetoric aside, trying to persuade antis is a futile waste of time. Personal opinion? I think we should work on our own image--something that this site does fairly well. Though some people will never believe in the individual's right to self-defense and the purpose of the 2nd Amendment, there are those that can be shown the truth: Fence-sitters, neutral parties, individuals who've never really thought one way or t'other about the 2nd Amendment. I believe we would be better served by reaching out to these folks, as opposed to endless verbal jousting with "true believers" who will not be swayed.

Respectfully, Sixtigers
 
I agree with the above post. Improving the image of firearm owners should be a priority. We must present ourselves as the responsible, law-abiding citizens that the vast majority of us are.

Time spent arguing with people who will never change their mind is probably time that is better spent elsewhere. The arguments of the anti-gun crowd to which I have been subjected have had no impact on me. We must continue to take the "high road" and not stoop to the level of those that oppose us.
 
This is a well-intentioned thread, however I think it's pointless.

As long as the armed extremists are on our side, we're always going to look bad no matter what we do.

Look at Islam. The most popular name on the planet is Mohammed, and the overwhelming majority of muslims are completely non-violent; yet what's the first picture to pop in your head when you hear "Islam" or "Muslim"?

I'll bet it's not "Patriot".
 
Often, we would be better to answer questions with questions, than actually answering what we have been asked.
That's SOP for me. It simply infuriates them, since it requires them to either actually THINK about what they're saying rather than spout slogans, OR to admit that they have no idea what they're talking about.
 
I agree with the above post. Improving the image of firearm owners should be a priority. We must present ourselves as the responsible, law-abiding citizens that the vast majority of us are.
That only works up to a point. To the hard core 10% at the top, you have a "bad image" merely by BEING a gun owner.
 
If I ever get the "cops and soldiers" argument, my first question is, "why do cops need guns?"
That came up while discussing my Ohio CHL at Christmas dinner in Apartheid Chicago last year. I just said what I always say in reply that that non-argument:

Police have no legal duty to protect individuals.
Police have no legal liability if they fail to protect individuals.
Police have almost no physical ability to protect individuals.

If your life is in immediate danger, protect yourself or don't get protected AT ALL.

People may not like that, but they sure can't factually refute it.
 
JP, welcome to THR,

A thoughtful thread. An inovative approach.
Me, Im polite, and reasoned, and use a lot of the facts already stated.
Wecome to our community and remember " Keep it HightRoad.
Doc
 
So here is my question... Do you guys think this applies? You would really have to be on your toes and prepared to use this method so: What are some other common questions we are faced with - and how could we use a counter question to make people think? Any real life examples?

I am not sure, how could we?
 
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