A wallet size pocket pistol?

[Fiv3r]

I found myself in a similar situation when I was looking at pocket pistols a few years back. I wear regular jeans with regular pockets. A Glock in my pocket is not an option.

In my line of work, my carry pistol must be both light and comfortable for a fairly active day of packing out product to a customer's car as well as remaining invisible. I need a gun that fit in my pocket as well as sometimes ride iwb.

I love my lcp. I've carried one for several years. However, I have since stumbled upon the newer m&p Bodyguard 380. It feels a little more substantial than the lcp, it comes with real adjustable sights, and without the laser of the s&w model it is just as handy to carry.

I made a back pocket holster to ride in my pocket opposite my wallet. You can't tell it's a pistol at all. Since it has a very stout double action trigger and a safety, I also added a techna clip so that the Bodyguard can ride iwb with my Polo bloused around it, or even shoved into gym shorts when going for a walk.

The little M&P is my always gun. There is no reason to not have it in my pocket or belt line even when I am carrying a larger pistol as well.

 

[bikerdoc]

An old dilema with no school solution, only individual choices.
Me, for the rare time I cant carry my full or compact weapons, I use a Bersa 380 CC. Right front pocket in a thin pocket holster I made myself.
I strongly recommend a holster of some sort for safety in pocket carry.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

If you don't feel you can carry or deploy a decent firearm or sidearm with your office wardrobe, then do not carry a firearm. It's not going to save you or work the way you hope. It might seem cool or entertaining in movies or TV shows but don't risk your safety on a small caliber pocket pistol just for concealment.

That has got to be one of the most ridiculous statements I have read in a while. It may seem counter intuitive, but small calibers work surprisingly well at making psychological stops and most handgun stops are psychological. Percentage-wise, few handgun stops are because of physical incapacitation. Most stops are made via simple presentation of a gun with no shots fired. Even when shots are fired, stops are commonly made with the suspect either not being hit or not being hit in a serious or incapacitating manner.

I would not want to rely on a smaller caliber to make a physiological stop, but for the vast majority of incidents, you won't have to.

----------------------

For the OP, whatever you decide to pocket carry may still require some changes to your wardrobe to help assure remaining concealed. You may need to wear either primarily darker or busy patterns darker fabrics to help hide shadows and pulls that can result from pocket carry. Pleated pants sometime do a better job than non-pleated plants.

 

[cluttonfred]

Carrying a gun is a responsibility and anyone who does because it's "cool or entertaining" has no place carrying one in the first place. That said, I agree completely with Double Naught Spy and I don't believe that there is some magical cut off below which pistol size or caliber ceases to be better than nothing. OK, maybe one of those Lilliput guns, though I still wouldn't volunteer to get shot with one.

When I was young and single and living in a big city neighborhood in which gunshots and screams were a regular occurence, the only gun I had was a 7-shot .22LR Marlin Papoose and I felt a lot better knowing it was there, just in case. I have seen some nice old Stevens single-shot pocket pistols in .22 short and I would still much rather have that than nothing at all.

My point in starting this thread was simply to understand what the options might be for a pocket pistol that can actually be carried concealed in an ordinary size pocket. There are a lot more of them out there than there used to be, thanks all for the input.

 

[AK103K]

That has got to be one of the most ridiculous statements I have read in a while. It may seem counter intuitive, but small calibers work surprisingly well at making psychological stops and most handgun stops are psychological. Percentage-wise, few handgun stops are because of physical incapacitation. Most stops are made via simple presentation of a gun with no shots fired. Even when shots are fired, stops are commonly made with the suspect either not being hit or not being hit in a serious or incapacitating manner.

Let me get this right. Its all about scaring and impressing them with your little gun. Is that it?

As for being impressed and stopping, this boy certainly wanst, and the shooter wasnt all that bright either, only firing one round, instead of a burst, and turning his back and running right off after the other boy, before he was sure the first boy was done, but he did get them both in the end. Took awhile though, and a number of rounds too, and Im not sure if he even made it though.

Action starts at around 0:45, and there are three different camera angles shown, so its not over right off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=910ErU69QfE

I think a lot of people really need to wake up when it comes to whats going on here and whats needed to prevail. Yea, you "might" (really) luck out, and stop them with just a flash of your gun, or maybe a lucky shot, but reality is, once you start, you have to shoot them to the ground, and dont stop until they are down and out, or you are. You brought a gun along that will allow you to accomplish that, right? What if your luck really sucks, and there are multiple opponents? Got enough left for them?

How often do you actually practice getting the gun into action, and shooting realistically from how you carry it? Youre not basing your skills on what you did with a few rounds standing still, and leisurely shot a couple of months ago at a bulls eye target are you?

These "little" guns, are at best back ups to your "real" gun, and more just there to make you feel better than anything else. Will they work? Sure, if youre good, and lucky. If youre using one, youre not likely to be in a good place anyway, as for whatever reason, your "real" gun, is either empty, disabled, or lost, and youre now stuck with "feel good".


Watch that video again, and pay special attention to that boy in the blue/black shirt. He looks well practiced, and was fast and smooth getting that shooter out, wasnt he?

One shot? Really?!?!

 

[cluttonfred]

AK103K, I can't tell if you mean well by your comments or are simple trolling for an argument. I am sure that I could find a dozen YouTube videos in about as many seconds that show individuals killed or incapacitated by a single shot from a mouse gun, or scared off by the sight of any gun at all. All that would prove is that I know how to use the search box, too. I am not going to get into a tit-for-tat discussion of the merits of a small gun vs. no gun at all. You've made your point and you are welcome to your opinion.

 

[AK103K]

There are a lot more of them out there than there used to be......

Therein lies a big part of the answer. Many have never had/tried to carry a more realistic gun, to know that it can easily be done.

I do believe to many, their gun is more of a fashion/status statement, than it is anything else.

I rarely see, or remember seeing, anyone practicing at the range with one of the pocket guns, and when I did, they werent doing it very realistically.

Lets be honest here. When was the last time you did, and how often do you do it?

Carrying a gun is a responsibility and anyone who does because it's "cool or entertaining" has no place carrying one in the first place.

That pretty much sums it up.

 

[Nom de Forum]

I see a lot of references to folks pocket carrying all kinds of guns and, honestly, they must just have bigger pockets than I do. I usually wear a business suit or dress pants, shirt and tie, and a blazer for work. I wear loose, comfortable pants (but not cargo pants) or jeans on the weekend. None have enormous pockets that would swallow a J-frame or the like discreetly.

What I really need is a little pistol that's not just "pocket size" but "wallet size." For a baseline, I went to the web site of a famous leather goods company and came up with these dimensions for their men's wallets: billfold 3.75" x 3", double billfold 3.75" x 3.75 in, trifold 4.25" x 3.25". That would give a maximum "wallet size" dimension of about 4.25" x 3.75".

I have looked at the well-circulated Bobo's Pocket Auto Comparison Chart and find only the quite pricey Seecamp models that actually fit this definition of "wallet size." The old Baby Browning would work, but I was hoping to find something a little more recent and safer to carry with a round in the chamber. Other than those two and the tiny NAA single-action revolvers or some sort of derringer, are there any pocket pistols that actually fit these dimensions?

As you can see from the photos I prefer a longer wallet at 4.75" that spreads out the contents so it is thinner. This wallet and the P32 are about the same in thickness and equally comfortable to carry and more importantly sit on.

 

[cluttonfred]

Very helpful to see that kind of comparison shot, Nom de Forum, thanks.

 

[weblance]

I do believe to many, their gun is more of a fashion/status statement, than it is anything else.

I rarely see, or remember seeing, anyone practicing at the range with one of the pocket guns, and when I did, they werent doing it very realistically.

Lets be honest here. When was the last time you did, and how often do you do it?

I dont carry a small gun because its a fashion statement. What a ridiculous thing to say. I carry a small gun because it works for me. I dont want to be in an extended gun fight with a .32acp, but Im confident that I can get all 8 shots where they need to be, in short order.

I practice with my P32 everytime I go to the range. I go about every three weeks.

If you feel better carrying a large gun, thats great. If you think Im not capable of protecting myself with a small gun, then you would be as surprised as someone who thinks Im an easy target.

 

[oneounceload]

Noting that this is an AOW (Any Other Weapon) controlled by the NFA, so unless he's paid the $200.00 making tax, or a $5.00 transfer and registered it on a Form 1 or Form 4, he's a federal felon exactly the same as if he had an illegal machinegun or silencer.

Really.

I absolutely agree. My friend is an attorney, but I am NOT ASSuming anything where this is concerned!..
A Seecamp, possibly LCP or Rohrbaugh in a slim pocket holster would be my personal idea

 

[AK103K]

What a ridiculous thing to say.

Is it? Look/read around the different boards. Plenty of examples of seasonal, day of the week, and ensemble guns.

I practice with my P32 everytime I go to the range. I go about every three weeks.

Glad to hear it. Id say youre probably above the curve.

Just out of curiosity, what do you consider "practice"?

If you feel better carrying a large gun, thats great. If you think Im not capable of protecting myself with a small gun, then you would be as surprised as someone who thinks Im an easy target.

Hey, if youre comfortable with it, have at it. We all have to live with our choices. If 8 rounds of .32 makes you all warm and fuzzy......

 

[Old Fuff]

If 8 rounds of .32 makes you all warm and fuzzy......

On occasion I've managed to keep all warm and fuzzy with 5 rounds in an ultra-small S&W revolver chambered in .32 S&W. Back before World War Two the company used to advertise it as being a better choice then Colt's .25 Vest Pocket automatic. In this observation I agree.

That said, I have full confidence that it will do if it has to. This particular model was made from 1888 to 1937 - with the last ones being sold around 1941. If it was a total flop in the performance department it wouldn't have lasted near that long.

Admittedly they're better options, and I usually go to one of them. But sometimes when deep concealment is a prime concern I turn to it.

If your confidence stops well short of this that's your business. That why we have choices.

 

[bflee]

The LCP slips in my jeans pocket nicely. I have carried it since 2009. I dont even use a holster.

 

[Tallball]

Here is the Tomcat. It's kind of heavy and I don't carry it.

 

[Tallball]

Here is the Kel-Tec P3AT 380. I carry it sometimes, and practice with it often. It's not fun to shoot, but I am pretty decent with it.

 

[Johnny_B_Goode]

It really is hard to practice with the mini 380 pistols. I picked up a JA22 for target practice. I was able to practice so much with the JA22 that the 380's with miniature sights are a breeze to shoot. When I sold my Kel Tec I walked out in the dark and put 6 rounds in the same hole. I miss the days of $15 a box of 500 22 LR ammo.

 

[chicharrones]

I rarely see, or remember seeing, anyone practicing at the range with one of the pocket guns, and when I did, they werent doing it very realistically.

Lets be honest here. When was the last time you did, and how often do you do it?

Due to my dress code for work, I wear khakis and a tucked in shirt. I have to get in all kinds of positions for repairs that make IWB carry a major pain. After trying IWB first, I went to pocket carry.

My selection of pocket carry is one of three. Taurus 85UL, Taurus TCP732, or NAA Guardian. The calibers being .38 Special in the first and .32 ACP in the other two.

If you were in the lane next to me at the range, you might not see me firing my pocket gun. That is because I usually take a different gun and spend most of the range time with whatever that gun is that day.

However, the pocket gun does come out for about 4 magazines (or 6 cylinders) worth. 1/2 fired right handed and 1/2 fired left handed, almost always with a "triple" tap. So, considering gun capacities, that will be an average of 30 rounds with the pocket gun that day. Plus, the pocket gun will be in full linty condition right before cleaning time is due.

In my experience shooting that small amount of ammo seems to be plenty of practice with pocket guns before the size of those little hand-biters start making you practice poorly.

 

[verdun59]

Kahr P380 will meet your needs, and they don't beat your hands up when you practice. Or the Kel-tec P32, I find it a little harder on your hand/trigger finger, but it is small.

 

[Rex B]

P32 or Seecamp

I have a lot of pocket pistols plastic, steel, revolvers etc. I weighed and measured them last year - the P32 was the lightest. The Seecamps is thicker and heavier, and works best with $ilvertips. Even the NAA Black Widow is heavier.
I have a P238, Mustang and other similar SA pistols, but I only carry DA or DA/SA. I don't think SA is compatible with pocket carry.
I will probably buy a Kahr CW380 soon as my standard carry

 

[jimbo555]

Take a look at the s&w bodyguard 380. The new one without the laser, it's small and light and has usable sights. Mine is accurate and reliable. It has a long trigger pull but you get used to it.

 

[zxcvbob]

I sometimes carry a LCR in my hip pocket -- khakis or jeans, mostly. The only problem with that is the front sight wears a hole in the pocket (so I need to get a pocket holster for it.)

 

[AK103K]

On occasion I've managed to keep all warm and fuzzy with 5 rounds in an ultra-small S&W revolver chambered in .32 S&W.

Is it like this one?



If so, Ill take the Colt Pocket (I had one of those as well).

For as loud and as much of a kick that little .32 S&W gives up, it wouldnt pierce my steel, 55 gallon burn barrel, at 10'. Doesnt do anything to make me warm and fuzzy, but it is fun to shoot now and again though.

However, the pocket gun does come out for about 4 magazines (or 6 cylinders) worth.

Does it "come out" each and every time its fired and then returned for the next draw, or is it just brought out to shoot?

A big problem with the pocket type guns (or anything that is carried other than on the belt), is the ability to get them into action quickly, especially from a "startle" start. You cant (and likely dont) always walk around with your hand on your gun.

Practicing those draws, can also become tiresome pretty quick too, as you have to "reset" everything for the next draw stroke. Still, its something that needs practiced, and regularly, both in dry and live fire.

In my experience shooting that small amount of ammo seems to be plenty of practice with pocket guns before the size of those little hand-biters start making you practice poorly.

Ive always shot around 1-200 rounds out of whatever Im carrying as a back, up a couple of times a month.

With the exception of my PPK's (the only "hand biter" I ever had), the autos were never a problem shooting reasonable amounts of ammo out of them. The Walthers were blood thirsty, and it wasnt the recoil, but those "points", on the end of the slide that always sliced me up good.

Im always amazed too, at the complaints that the LCP's, Seecamp's, ect., are "kickers", and hard on your hand.

Now the Airweight J frames on the other hand, tend to get old, and very quickly. A 50 round box is about all I can take at an outing anymore, and my hand hurts for a couple of days after. My steel Model 60 snubbies in 357Mag were the same way.

These days, a Glock 26 fills the others in the back up role, and I can shoot them as long as I want, with no discomfort at all, and that includes the 127 grain +P+ Ranger Ts I carry in them.

The only problem with that is the front sight wears a hole in the pocket (so I need to get a pocket holster for it.)

Wear on your clothing is a big problem, and not just with pocket carry. Even with my Smart Carry's, I have to line my pants in strategic spots, with iron on patches, or they quickly wear through at the contact points.

One of my buddies has carried a Walther TPH in his right front pants pocket for years. Even with it being carried in a leather pocket holster, pretty much all his pants have a TPH "Skoal ring" in the front right pocket. It very obvious to anyone looking (and hard not to notice in the darker pants), yet doesnt seem to phase or bother him.

 

[Old Fuff]

Is it like this one?

Close but not quite...

Mine is an enclosed hammer, New Departure/Safety Hammerless with a shorter barrel. Unlike the one you have it has a grip safety.

Underpowered? Sure - but a bullet that hits an aggressor isn't unlikely to exit, and I don't think anyone is going to stay around to discuss exterior ballistics while they try to find a hospital.

I use it when circumstances dictate that "concealed absolutely means concealed, and because of "climate conditions " a covering garment is out of the question or in itself would attract attention. That, and the risk of trouble is low.

It's much safer to carry then a striker-fired pistol with the chamber loaded, and more reliable.

 

[AK103K]

Mine is an enclosed hammer, New Departure/Safety Hammerless with a shorter barrel. Unlike the one you have it has a grip safety.

Mines a 4th Model top break.

It's much safer to carry then a striker-fired pistol with the chamber loaded, and more reliable.

I guess thats a matter of opinion. I know a lot of people seem to be afraid of the striker fired guns, and like to throw that around, but in reality, they are neither unsafe or unreliable.

I carry a couple of striker fired guns, fully loaded, daily, and shoot them all the time, and have never had an issue in either department.

They also offer much more in shootabilty, power, and capacity. I rarely carry my 5 shot J frames as BUG's anymore these days, mostly for the above reasons,. The .32 S&W would be the last choice Id pick out of the safe for anything serious.