a working 12 gauge flare gun?

[Thompsoncustom]

So I was just on the atf's website and seen this.
https://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/05/050406-openletter-nfa-flare-inserts.html

It shows they converted one of the flare guns to a 12 gauge. I figured that would be illegal because u pretty much have a .70 cal smoothbore handgun at that point. Thoughts?

Sure would be easy to reinforce a steel vz44 with a steel insert for 12 gauge.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Wouldn't a rifled barrel make it OK (for those under .50 cal)?

Mike

 

[Thompsoncustom]

That's the thing I think under 50 and rifled it would be fine but reading the above made it sound like it was fine as a AOW in smoothbore 12 gauge.

 

[Aaron Baker]

I figured that would be illegal because u pretty much have a .70 cal smoothbore handgun at that point.

the above made it sound like it was fine as a AOW in smoothbore 12 gauge.

That's exactly what the ATF is saying. It's an AOW, and therefore illegal if not registered, because it is a smoothbore 12 gauge pistol. The 38 caliber one is only a problem because it's smoothbore. If it was rifled, it would perfectly legal to create a pistol using a non-firearm (the flare launcher) because making your own pistol is legal.

However, the ATF's secondary point is that these are dangerous because the plastic launchers will fall apart.

There may be a metal flare launcher out there that's strong enough to handle a .38 caliber insert without destroying itself, and if that insert was rifled, it would be legal without a stamp. But who wants to be the guy who tests whether the action is strong enough?

Aaron

 

[Thompsoncustom]

I was more wondering if it was even be legal as a registered AOW as its still above 50 and a smoothbore.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

The question of whether it is an AOW or DD is interesting and has tax ($5 or $200) and travel implications (form 5320 needed or not). It is actually more critical than the question of a combination gun shortened below 12" which has not been answered to my satisfaction. However in that case it probably does not matter much if it is a SBR or SBS as they are treated the same.

Mike

 

[Thompsoncustom]

It wouldn't be a SBR or SBS I don't think because it never started out with a stock or meant to be shoulder fired.

What I need to do is find a email address for the atf so I can ask them and see what they have to say about it.

 

[Aaron Baker]

Why ask the ATF?

It's 12 gauge. Which means it's a shotgun shell, which means it's an AOW, not a DD. See, for instance, the Serbu super shorty. They're built on virgin receivers, and therefore AOWs. Not SBSs. But also not DDs, presumably because they shoot a 12 gauge shotgun shell.

I know it's possible for a 12 gauge to be a DD, such as the Street Sweeper.

But let's be honest--unless you want to build a 12 gauge smoothbore pistol that will blow up in your hand, you're not gonna file a tax stamp application. So knowing whether you'd be Form 1'ing an AOW or a DD isn't really all that important.

It's NFA, and that's really all that matters, isn't it?

Aaron

 

[Thompsoncustom]

Who said I wouldn't do it?

I think a old vz44 would work if you took it down from 26.5mm to 12 gauge with a steel insert the chamber thickness would be much thicker than a standard 12 gauge shotgun, I don't see why it wouldn't work.

 

[Aaron Baker]

It isn't the chamber thickness that's the issue. The pictures of the destroyed flare guns show the frame splitting. I don't know if the VZ44 will hold up any better than the plastic guns over time. I'm not sure it's worth a tax stamp to try it out. I'd rather spend that cash making an H&R into a super short single shot 12 gauge, personally.

Aaron