About ready to flip a coin... (9mm vs .40)
- Thread starter Corner Pocket
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shooting4fun
Member
Good Day Corner Pocket, and et al.,
Go ahead and flip that coin cause it is going to cost ya! I mean that in a good way. The launcher, the ammo, the accessories, the piece of mind, they all have a value assessed to them. The folks responding to this thread have been on target with most of the comments.
Both calibers are very well suited for self defense purposes. The differences are always arguable by those that have a point to pontificate. Generally it is going to be a difference in the launcher not really the caliber.
Using similar platforms, the larger 40 SW will have a fewer rounds on board. The shootability of your candidate platform will be subjective to the shooter. Each will drive somewhat differently. It would be a benefit to have both of you try before you buy.
Here is just an example of what I found. I was considering either a Glock 26 (9x19mm) or a 27 (40 SW). Essentially both the G26 & G27 have the same external dimensions. I was able to borrow a 26 & 27 from friends for a hands on comparison. I ended up measuring them in several ways to get numbers that told me the story (it's an engineering thing...). I set up several shooting stages and ran them through the paces. In all I ran each of them through 100 rounds each to get a feel. They both were equal in accuracy out to 30 yards (any difference measurable was not significant enough to me so I called it a draw ). Power of both rounds was adequate for my purposes (I shoot competition and carry with my pistols & revolvers). All steel targets went down when hit properly in both loads. (Both calibers were Winchester White Box from Wally World) It was easier to drive the 26 faster through the stage. Split times between shoots were quite a bit faster ( tough to argue with the shot timer ) as the gun settled nicely for the next shot. ( hits count, misses don't )
I have found that I will spend way more in ammo than I did on the launcher. This here is a big one. The cost difference between 9x19 and 40 SW. Even if you reload, the cost of components between the calibers is very significant.
Be sure to accommodate for you and your wife's concerns when you selecting a launcher, especially if it is going to be used for more serious applications. If either of you has the need to haul it out of stowage then it has got to run and run well for both of you, no fussing about, no taking all day to get it in gear to run. Realize too, that there are some pretty nice wheelies available in both those calibers too. So don't limit things to just bottom feeders. This is really important since there are those that just don't care to fuss with jacking a slide properly to “load and make ready”.
Have a good time shopping. Learn lots, try them out, talk to each other about the self defense ramifications, get some training, and be realistic about your needs and practice. Be well!
Go ahead and flip that coin cause it is going to cost ya! I mean that in a good way. The launcher, the ammo, the accessories, the piece of mind, they all have a value assessed to them. The folks responding to this thread have been on target with most of the comments.
Both calibers are very well suited for self defense purposes. The differences are always arguable by those that have a point to pontificate. Generally it is going to be a difference in the launcher not really the caliber.
Using similar platforms, the larger 40 SW will have a fewer rounds on board. The shootability of your candidate platform will be subjective to the shooter. Each will drive somewhat differently. It would be a benefit to have both of you try before you buy.
Here is just an example of what I found. I was considering either a Glock 26 (9x19mm) or a 27 (40 SW). Essentially both the G26 & G27 have the same external dimensions. I was able to borrow a 26 & 27 from friends for a hands on comparison. I ended up measuring them in several ways to get numbers that told me the story (it's an engineering thing...). I set up several shooting stages and ran them through the paces. In all I ran each of them through 100 rounds each to get a feel. They both were equal in accuracy out to 30 yards (any difference measurable was not significant enough to me so I called it a draw ). Power of both rounds was adequate for my purposes (I shoot competition and carry with my pistols & revolvers). All steel targets went down when hit properly in both loads. (Both calibers were Winchester White Box from Wally World) It was easier to drive the 26 faster through the stage. Split times between shoots were quite a bit faster ( tough to argue with the shot timer ) as the gun settled nicely for the next shot. ( hits count, misses don't )
I have found that I will spend way more in ammo than I did on the launcher. This here is a big one. The cost difference between 9x19 and 40 SW. Even if you reload, the cost of components between the calibers is very significant.
Be sure to accommodate for you and your wife's concerns when you selecting a launcher, especially if it is going to be used for more serious applications. If either of you has the need to haul it out of stowage then it has got to run and run well for both of you, no fussing about, no taking all day to get it in gear to run. Realize too, that there are some pretty nice wheelies available in both those calibers too. So don't limit things to just bottom feeders. This is really important since there are those that just don't care to fuss with jacking a slide properly to “load and make ready”.
Have a good time shopping. Learn lots, try them out, talk to each other about the self defense ramifications, get some training, and be realistic about your needs and practice. Be well!
Corner Pocket
Member
Well, good fortune smiled upon me this morning. 
The other day I loaded up some new loads (new for me) in .38 and .357, and I've been anxious to get to the range to see how they would perform. Now that I've shot some of each of those reloads, I'm very pleased with the results.
While there at the range, there were several folks nearby whom I heard talking about both 9mm and .40 caliber. I eased over to where I could join in the chat. Before I went back to my table, I had shot a mag of .40 in a Glock, a mag in another .40, a Taurus, and a mag of 9mm in a Ruger P89. It was very evident to me that the Glock .40 had a lot more kick than the Taurus .40. I was amazed at how sweet the P89 was to shoot! That's one of the smoothest-shooting guns I've ever shot. It's definitely going to be a 9mm for me when I buy my next gun.
Later edit: I posted this before I had read your post, shooting4fun. Thank you for a most insightful response. I think I've now gathered up enough empirical evidence to convince me that the 9mm route is the way I should go. (My wife says she'll be happy with whatever I decide on.) Perhaps there's a .40 somewhere out there in my future, but since I have a .45 that I love to shoot, I think I'll be happy to have a 9mm to enjoy as my next pistol...
CP
The other day I loaded up some new loads (new for me) in .38 and .357, and I've been anxious to get to the range to see how they would perform. Now that I've shot some of each of those reloads, I'm very pleased with the results.While there at the range, there were several folks nearby whom I heard talking about both 9mm and .40 caliber. I eased over to where I could join in the chat. Before I went back to my table, I had shot a mag of .40 in a Glock, a mag in another .40, a Taurus, and a mag of 9mm in a Ruger P89. It was very evident to me that the Glock .40 had a lot more kick than the Taurus .40. I was amazed at how sweet the P89 was to shoot! That's one of the smoothest-shooting guns I've ever shot. It's definitely going to be a 9mm for me when I buy my next gun.
Later edit: I posted this before I had read your post, shooting4fun. Thank you for a most insightful response. I think I've now gathered up enough empirical evidence to convince me that the 9mm route is the way I should go. (My wife says she'll be happy with whatever I decide on.) Perhaps there's a .40 somewhere out there in my future, but since I have a .45 that I love to shoot, I think I'll be happy to have a 9mm to enjoy as my next pistol...
CP
michiganfan
Member
Zach you got me laughing on that one.
hankdatank1362
Member
I took my new SIG P226R .40 to the indoor range the other day for the first time. The recoil, muzzle blast, and overall experience was much more pronounced than I remembered it being from my last .40 S&W pistol, a Daewoo DH40. The SIG is much heavier than a Daewoo, so I couldn't figure out for the life of me what could be wrong.
After the first 80 rounds or so, I realized I was leaning back like a little kid who was shooting a handgun for the first time.
DOH!!!
Proper stance, leaning into the target a bit, and I was double and triple tapping targets at 12 yards. No problem at all. (Course, I'm 6'4", 250, so recoil is subjective.)
Some people call .357 a ".38 with a flashbang". The same could be said about 9mm and .40S&W. I believe shock and awe are part of the package.
But yes, cost is less, recoil is less, and shot-to-shot times can be less in a 9mm than a .40 cal.
I swear I read somewhere here that STI sells more pistols, esp. race guns, in .40 though, by like a 60% margin. I would have bet 9mm or .38 super, but I would have been wrong.
I saw a thread on the SIG forum about converting your .40S&W SIG to a 10 mm, but it was about $1000, plus initial cost of the gun. But how awesome would that be?!?!
After the first 80 rounds or so, I realized I was leaning back like a little kid who was shooting a handgun for the first time.
DOH!!!
Proper stance, leaning into the target a bit, and I was double and triple tapping targets at 12 yards. No problem at all. (Course, I'm 6'4", 250, so recoil is subjective.)
Some people call .357 a ".38 with a flashbang". The same could be said about 9mm and .40S&W. I believe shock and awe are part of the package.
But yes, cost is less, recoil is less, and shot-to-shot times can be less in a 9mm than a .40 cal.
I swear I read somewhere here that STI sells more pistols, esp. race guns, in .40 though, by like a 60% margin. I would have bet 9mm or .38 super, but I would have been wrong.
I saw a thread on the SIG forum about converting your .40S&W SIG to a 10 mm, but it was about $1000, plus initial cost of the gun. But how awesome would that be?!?!
76shuvlinoff
Member
I like my xdsc whether I'm running 40 or the 9mm conversion through it. My wife however does not like either round in that platform and likes the .40 least of the two.
However, she doesn't seem to mind running the mag dry on my 5" 1911 .45
Why did I even let her touch it? :banghead:
However, she doesn't seem to mind running the mag dry on my 5" 1911 .45
Why did I even let her touch it? :banghead:
.40 is a pointless cartridge. Don't get me wrong, it will get the job done, but I'm already stocking 9mm and .45ACP, two cartridges that have been around and doing the job for around a century each. If I'm going to buy another type of ammunition, it'll be 10mm, which isn't just new and different for the sake of being new and different. It actually expands the boundaries of semi-automatic pistol performance.
If you want a pistol that pushes the limits of pressure and provides snappy recoil and good stopping power, you can always load a 9mm with +P+ rounds that launch a 125 gr. bullet to 1250 fps. And with 9mm, you also have the option of inexpensive practice ammunition.
If you want a pistol that pushes the limits of pressure and provides snappy recoil and good stopping power, you can always load a 9mm with +P+ rounds that launch a 125 gr. bullet to 1250 fps. And with 9mm, you also have the option of inexpensive practice ammunition.
kashton
Member
I always end up with a .40 in the end, I would get the .40
To say that the .40 is a pointless cartridge is ignorant, it is in its own category and it does the job it was designed to do.
I've owned a Glock 19 (9mm), Glock 23 (.40), Glock 27 (.40), P2000SK V2 LEM (.40), S&W 640 Pre Lock (.357 magnum), and a Kahr MK40 (.40)... my favorite? My daily carry?
...the Kahr MK40, it rocks, never fails, extremely accurate, recoil is manageable, great little gun.
To say that the .40 is a pointless cartridge is ignorant, it is in its own category and it does the job it was designed to do.
I've owned a Glock 19 (9mm), Glock 23 (.40), Glock 27 (.40), P2000SK V2 LEM (.40), S&W 640 Pre Lock (.357 magnum), and a Kahr MK40 (.40)... my favorite? My daily carry?
...the Kahr MK40, it rocks, never fails, extremely accurate, recoil is manageable, great little gun.
An 8 year old girl could handle the .40 caliber recoil. Women give birth to 8 pound babies. I'm sure they can handle a .40 or for that matter a desert eagle .50 caliber. It's a myth that women can't handle recoil.
Buy the 9mm because it's cheaper to shoot.
Buy the 9mm because it's cheaper to shoot.
here are som random, rambling thoughts from someone who is not LEO or military. If you get bored easily, just don't read past here>. I am primarily an outdoorsman and hunter and am CCW. And it is being written completely tongue in cheek, so read it with a smile on your face and don't take anything personally.
The 9mm is pretty routinely considered marginal to minimum for SD power.
I don't hoard ammo. I reload ammo, so I don't care about having a coffee table sized crate of 9mm and 5.56 ammo buried in the yard Why do people do that if it is so readily available anyway?
I can also make ammo pretty cheap. Alternately, it is hard to reload 9mm as cheap as you can buy it - cheap practice ammo is that. It is inexpensive and readily available.
Hmmmm... I just thought of something... I have never had a 9mm pistol that would shoot that stuff all that great anyway. And I have tailored ammo that I make that shoots great in all my guns.
If you have to go to +P+ in 9mm, will your gun handle it (not all of them will) and won't it be snappier? In my experience it can be a LOT snappier with a lot more muzzle flash. Muzzle flash is always good, right?
I got an XD subcompact in .40. I LOVE it. I don't find it hard to control or shoot accurately and it shoots 180gr better than any lighter bullets, so there is recoil. I find my Taurus in .357 Sig - which is ported - to be much snappier.
I have never - ever - felt undergunned carrying my 1911 with 8 rounds in the mag and 1 in the pipe, so the fact that the Superschutzenator XV can carry 27 rounds of 9mm means absolutely nothing to me. I have 9 in the gun and an extra mag. I feel fine about that.
On the XD (which is a secondary choice), I can switch between 10 or 13 depending on concealment and grip length I want. I really like that utility in a very small package. Of course you could do the same in a 9...
I would also would never - ever - restrict myself by just not getting another caliber because I already have 2. Or 6. Or 12. I do a lot of different things with handguns and enjoy shooting everything from .22 shorts to .500 S&W in them. I have handguns in 15 or 16 different calibers and I know for a fact I need a couple more. You know which one I shoot the least? 9mm.
I probably shoot 1,000 rounds to 1 of .22Lr to anything else, but I shoot 1,000 rounds to 1 of .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .40 S&W and a few others to every 1 9mm round. I'd rather shoot a .32 H&R mag revolver all danged day than mess with a 9mm.
So take all that for what it's worth... just rambling thoughts. Maybe someone will read something they needed to read.
The 9mm is pretty routinely considered marginal to minimum for SD power.
I don't hoard ammo. I reload ammo, so I don't care about having a coffee table sized crate of 9mm and 5.56 ammo buried in the yard
Why do people do that if it is so readily available anyway? I can also make ammo pretty cheap. Alternately, it is hard to reload 9mm as cheap as you can buy it - cheap practice ammo is that. It is inexpensive and readily available.
Hmmmm... I just thought of something... I have never had a 9mm pistol that would shoot that stuff all that great anyway. And I have tailored ammo that I make that shoots great in all my guns.
If you have to go to +P+ in 9mm, will your gun handle it (not all of them will) and won't it be snappier? In my experience it can be a LOT snappier with a lot more muzzle flash. Muzzle flash is always good, right?
I got an XD subcompact in .40. I LOVE it. I don't find it hard to control or shoot accurately and it shoots 180gr better than any lighter bullets, so there is recoil. I find my Taurus in .357 Sig - which is ported - to be much snappier.
I have never - ever - felt undergunned carrying my 1911 with 8 rounds in the mag and 1 in the pipe, so the fact that the Superschutzenator XV can carry 27 rounds of 9mm means absolutely nothing to me. I have 9 in the gun and an extra mag. I feel fine about that.
On the XD (which is a secondary choice), I can switch between 10 or 13 depending on concealment and grip length I want. I really like that utility in a very small package. Of course you could do the same in a 9...
I would also would never - ever - restrict myself by just not getting another caliber because I already have 2. Or 6. Or 12. I do a lot of different things with handguns and enjoy shooting everything from .22 shorts to .500 S&W in them. I have handguns in 15 or 16 different calibers and I know for a fact I need a couple more. You know which one I shoot the least? 9mm.
I probably shoot 1,000 rounds to 1 of .22Lr to anything else, but I shoot 1,000 rounds to 1 of .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .40 S&W and a few others to every 1 9mm round. I'd rather shoot a .32 H&R mag revolver all danged day than mess with a 9mm.
So take all that for what it's worth... just rambling thoughts. Maybe someone will read something they needed to read.
TOADMAN
Member
For self defense, prefer the .40 over the 9mm.. 180grn bullet at 1000fps is comforting.. Have no worries with 9mm in self defense situations, just prefer the .40 cal...
wally
Member
I carry a .40 and have the same gun in 9mm for practice. I don't see any difference in shooting them that would make much difference "for real" considering that the only folks I know who've fired shots in anger all said they don't remember even hearing the gun fire let alone feel the recoil.
The Wikipedia numbers for 165 gr .40S&W seem a bit low to me, all the others are probably a bit optimistic in real guns, but the relationships seem about right except for the 165 gr.
Costs of FMJ practice ammo the 9mm has a pretty decent advantage. But for "premium" JHP the .40 often comes in at lower cost because of the availability of "police overrun" .40S&W JHP specials
.
--wally.
The Wikipedia numbers for 165 gr .40S&W seem a bit low to me, all the others are probably a bit optimistic in real guns, but the relationships seem about right except for the 165 gr.
Costs of FMJ practice ammo the 9mm has a pretty decent advantage. But for "premium" JHP the .40 often comes in at lower cost because of the availability of "police overrun" .40S&W JHP specials
.
--wally.
I really think that caliber is the wrong issue to be concerned with. Really, you should be focusing on different types of guns. Find something that is comfortable, and puts shots where you want them to go. Personally, I think a DA/SA is good for starters, but lots more people think that a glock/xd type trigger is better for beginners. Try both.
Constantine-p89
Member
40 for home defence or carry, if you are going to buy a gun, buy a GUN.
All handguns generally suck for killing someone compared to a rifle. With that said, with modern JHP ammo, the difference between a .45 a 9mm is fairly marginal. Really comes down to what you like better.
Personally, I initially had a 9mm, traded to a .40, and find that with the snappier recoil of the .40 I can't as easily do accurate rapid-fire. Thus, right now i'm looking to trade back over to a 9mm. Reason being is that, if the B******d is worth shooting once, he's worth shooting twice, and with a 9mm I can shoot a goblin much quicker and more accurately then I can with a .40, thus for me it makes it a much more preferable SD choice.
Personally, I initially had a 9mm, traded to a .40, and find that with the snappier recoil of the .40 I can't as easily do accurate rapid-fire. Thus, right now i'm looking to trade back over to a 9mm. Reason being is that, if the B******d is worth shooting once, he's worth shooting twice, and with a 9mm I can shoot a goblin much quicker and more accurately then I can with a .40, thus for me it makes it a much more preferable SD choice.
fastbolt
Member
Guess both of the posting attempts I made got through, even though my computer was hanging-fire so long.
Don't see the need for a duplicate.
Don't see the need for a duplicate.
fastbolt
Member
Already picked one, huh?
Well, I'm not going to recommend one or the other to you, even after you already picked one. Your age and posted interested in 'guns' seems to imply that you've been out and around the block a time or two.
What do you think you'd like to shoot? How's it turned out so far?
It's just handgun.
Sounds like you've already got a couple you like in a couple of other acceptable 'proven' defensive handgun calibers, so are you just indulging in being able to expand your collection? Hard to quibble with that.
FWIW, while I was originally a rather staunch proponent of the 'best' defensive handgun calibers being .357 magnum & .45 ACP when I was younger, I find I've also collected a number of 9mm & .40 S&W 'working' (off-duty) weapons in my safe. Got 4 of each last time I looked, and 8 chambered in .45 ACP. Getting ready to order another .45, too, this time a M&P 45. Like I need another one.
Get what you like, since you're of an age and situation where you don't seem to be required to like what you get handed to you.
I will say that when all is said and done, I still find it consistently easier to accurately and controllably shoot the 9mm pistols compared to the .40 S&W pistols.
Maybe that's why I prefer to carry one or another little 9mm pistol on my own time ... when I'm not carrying one or another of my S&W 5-shot .38's, that is ...
Might be more in the way of splitting hairs, at times, but there's been more than a few times when the Timer told me that I was shooting just a mite slower with one or another .40 S&W pistol than I'd done with a similar 9mm pistol, especially when engaging multiple targets while moving, or shooting unsupported around cover, especially using my 'weak hand'.
Now, I actually enjoy shooting 9mm, .45 ACP, .38 Special, .357 Magnum, .45 Colt & .44 Magnum ... but I consider shooting .40 S&W as a more or less 'work-related' task. I just don't enjoy it as much as I do when shooting other pistols chambered in other calibers, especially pistols with lightweight polymer frames.
Makes me wonder why I own 4 of them ... and came awfully close to ordering a M&P 40 Compact. Dunno. Must be because I got really good deals on them as an armorer. 
Bottom line, the .40 S&W has shown itself to be an 'effective' defensive handgun cartridge. Doesn't mean everyone will necessarily enjoy owning & shooting one, though.
Pick what you like. Apparently, I can't even decide which is 'better' for myself ...
Well, I'm not going to recommend one or the other to you, even after you already picked one. Your age and posted interested in 'guns' seems to imply that you've been out and around the block a time or two.
What do you think you'd like to shoot? How's it turned out so far?
It's just handgun.
Sounds like you've already got a couple you like in a couple of other acceptable 'proven' defensive handgun calibers, so are you just indulging in being able to expand your collection? Hard to quibble with that.
FWIW, while I was originally a rather staunch proponent of the 'best' defensive handgun calibers being .357 magnum & .45 ACP when I was younger, I find I've also collected a number of 9mm & .40 S&W 'working' (off-duty) weapons in my safe. Got 4 of each last time I looked, and 8 chambered in .45 ACP. Getting ready to order another .45, too, this time a M&P 45. Like I need another one.
Get what you like, since you're of an age and situation where you don't seem to be required to like what you get handed to you.
I will say that when all is said and done, I still find it consistently easier to accurately and controllably shoot the 9mm pistols compared to the .40 S&W pistols.
Maybe that's why I prefer to carry one or another little 9mm pistol on my own time ... when I'm not carrying one or another of my S&W 5-shot .38's, that is ...
Might be more in the way of splitting hairs, at times, but there's been more than a few times when the Timer told me that I was shooting just a mite slower with one or another .40 S&W pistol than I'd done with a similar 9mm pistol, especially when engaging multiple targets while moving, or shooting unsupported around cover, especially using my 'weak hand'.
Now, I actually enjoy shooting 9mm, .45 ACP, .38 Special, .357 Magnum, .45 Colt & .44 Magnum ... but I consider shooting .40 S&W as a more or less 'work-related' task. I just don't enjoy it as much as I do when shooting other pistols chambered in other calibers, especially pistols with lightweight polymer frames.
Makes me wonder why I own 4 of them ... and came awfully close to ordering a M&P 40 Compact.
Dunno. Must be because I got really good deals on them as an armorer. Bottom line, the .40 S&W has shown itself to be an 'effective' defensive handgun cartridge. Doesn't mean everyone will necessarily enjoy owning & shooting one, though.
Pick what you like. Apparently, I can't even decide which is 'better' for myself ...
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