??? about weighing & sorting brass ???

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And about the dime someone thinks they discovered something they find someone else discovered it before the Internet, about the time someone decides sorting brass by weight and head stamp is the final answer they find they have just started.....sorting brass, again in the 60s a reloader purchased 500 cases, 500 ceases all in one lot, he started sorting then shooting, then sorting the shot cases, before it was over he settled on 40 cases + or -...and then started over on the cases that were culled out. Anyhow, because of his effort I would never claim 'I discovered'.

The Greek had a first or beginning of a word for 'same-o', it was 'iso': isometric, isotonic, ionospheric, isobar etc/. etc..



Reloaders think they have discovered the 'isocase' by sorting by weight through faulty deductive reasoning, meaning, just because the case weight the same does not mean the volume is the same, the case could have a heavy case head and thin body, or, a thin case head and a thick case body, nor does it mean the inside of the case is centered meaning the case wall could the thick on one side and thin on the other, so when it comes to sorting, matching cases by case weight means the sorting process has just started.

I have found 303 British cases as thin as .120 and as thick as .230, I have 30/06 cases with case heads as thin as .200 and as thick as .260+, but who measures? When culling or sorting cases with long volumes are not the same as cases with short columns although the available volume in both cases is the same.

As I said, 500 cases were sorted, the reloader sorted cases for difference and fired for accuracy, he settled on 40 + a few cases, for a test group he used the same rifle, loaded culled cases with the most accurate cases and fired for results, in his opinion he got patterns, then he went back after indexing the cases when fired, when indexed the same, his results was the same, then he indexed the cases 180 degree, fired and got different results. he also tested cases for multiple firings, I sort by head stamp and weight, and I know when it comes to sorting, sorting by weight and head stamp I have just started.

'isocase' as in same 'O', same 'O', out of a lot of 20 cases there is less than a 5% chance there is a perfect case in the lot of 20, and I know there is Norma and match and Lapua etc., it could be a choice, they sort or you sort, again I match by weight and head stamp and for those with short memories the rational for matching by weight and head stamp is for sorting and checking the total weight of the components after loading.

F. Guffey
 
FGuffey, please understand that this is not directed towards you.

People can find all kinds of reasons to NOT do things.

Successful people, champions if you will, usually do the things that others are unwilling to do.
 
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I understand the OP ask a question about sorting brass, I started by telling the OP my methods and techniques for sorting brass and most importantly, I told him why I sort brass. As to other people, I do not know if they sort brass, I do not know if they have brass to sort, some could be sorting and some could be talking about sorting, I DO NOT KNOW.

I understand the person asking the question deserves the best answer/answers, me? I can not think of one good reason for not sorting brass, even those that neck size only have to know when to start over, that one I will never understand how that is possible, that is to start over after the case has been fired 5 times, to me the case has been fired 5 times, how is it possible to start over, the case has been hammered 5 times, but then to understand that would be to understand 'stretch' and or 'flow'.

F. Guffey
 
Whether you need to sort brass and how close you need to get each case depends on the application and the abilities of the rifle/shooter.

Hunting ammo for 200 or so yards and in? Just toss any cases way of of the normal range for the lot.

500 yard beanfield rifle? Yea, sort them a little better and prep them carefully.

Benchrest? 1000 yard F Class shooting? Get anal about them.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=5187806&postcount=7
 
"any info from a master reloader would be really appreciated"
"Any info from anyone with experience with this would be really appreciated too"

This is the Internet, the OP did not request participation by a 'contraire', me? I expect it.
Sort by head stamps, in groups and weight, rational? I go to the range to road test a rifle I built, the last road test was with 60 rounds of 12 different loads, bullets, powder and cases, no patterns just tight groups that moved very little, deductive reasoning, the rifle liked everything and when changing any component or all components, load, go to the range and zero then go go.

I can not imagine how useless it is for someone to tell me none of this matters, when I get that lazy I will quit before I say "macht nichts".

F. Guffey
 
It's all relative.

An "experienced" but not necessarily "master" reloader. :)
 
For long range varmint shooting I sort by weight, then by neck thickness variation.

you need a VERY accurate rifle.

I use a Stolle Panda action in a rifle put together by Kelbly's with a .22-250 AI barrel and a 6mm Rem AI barrel.

Both barrels hold under 0.2 inch at 100 yards, and often under 0.1 inch.
 
Quoted from post above"

"I use a Stolle Panda action in a rifle put together by Kelbly's with a .22-250 AI barrel and a 6mm Rem AI barrel. Both barrels hold under 0.2 inch at 100 yards, and often under 0.1 inch."

Wow! That's really impressive! Wish I had a rifle that accurate. A rifle that "holds" under 0.2" and often under 0.1" will win any Benchrest Championship, and rewrite the record books doing so. Many of us will look forward to seeing that rifle in action this summer at the SuperShoot, and other major tournaments. It will be awesome to witness, especially after being disappointed by so many net-fantasy no-shows, so please be there and don't let us down.
 
I have one Savage/Shilen/Choate that shot .25 today, .20 yesterday, and .15 Friday. These are the averages of three, five-shot groups@100yds. Funny but it was windy Friday, breezy yesterday and today it was flat. R-P brass is +/- 1gr. H4895 powder was thrown from the Lyman 55. One firing since being annealed. Rem 7.5 primers.

Think I might need to tune my OAL?
 
Hey Guys,

Master reloader or not I really do appreciate all the replies so far.

I know that I am far from a master of this game, but I really enjoy learning all that I can about it. I also enjoy reading about other's opinions on how things should be done. I also realize that this is just one part of the much bigger equation that makes great accuracy possible.

While I have never even been in a shooting competition before, I think I would like to try that someday. My reloading is more geared to hunting and wanting to get into longer range steel targets, if for nothing more than learning to read wind and practice at long range. I believe that doing this will only help me in hunting situations.

Again, thanks for all the replies so far.
 
A rifle that "holds" under 0.2" and often under 0.1" will win any Benchrest Championship, and rewrite the record books doing so.
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Many rifles can, but we just won't let them. :banghead: :D :)
 
I usually buy my brass in lots of at least 1K. I will weigh them all on a electronic scale by weight. I have been using lapua the last 5 or 6 years and a lot of 1K will last me in my service rifle for several years. when I start to notice more and more bad pieces of brass I will start a new batch.
I will open the 10 boxes of 100 each and as I start to seperate them I will mark the boxes as to weight. The largest group of the exact same weight will become my long range brass and the others will be loaded in groups and shot as such. I will always have a few on the outside in each direction and those very few extremes will just get tossed in the scrap bin.

A good way to keep track is to color code your brass so you know your weights at aglance or at least it will same time when re-weighing. a small line or what ever on the base of the piece of brass colored red or blue or yellow or whatever can help you get everything back in the groups you seek.
I will usually go threw more of the long range brass faster because of the loads when I use 3 times more brass at the shorter ranges.

stopped using military brass years ago and have since have gotten rid of all of it. kinda as I will still run across a large box of it once in awile. did save like 3 of the large buckets of the japanese military brass I have yet go threw. sold a few thousand pieces of it here a few years back but keeping the rest. nice stuff!
 
Magnatecman:

I noticed that you size and trim prior to weighing, but there's one more variable you might consider: the uneven metal around the flash hole on the interior of the case. When the flash hole is punched, sometimes the displaced metal detaches and falls out, sometimes it detaches and rattles around in the new case until the first firing, and sometimes it forms a ragged crater around the hole. The variability of this process could account for quite a bit of the weight variation you're seeing.

You should consider uniforming your flash holes prior to weighing. You may find that a lot of the variation disappears.
 
Wow! That's really impressive! Wish I had a rifle that accurate. A rifle that "holds" under 0.2" and often under 0.1" will win any Benchrest Championship, and rewrite the record books doing so. Many of us will look forward to seeing that rifle in action this summer at the SuperShoot, and other major tournaments. It will be awesome to witness, especially after being disappointed by so many net-fantasy no-shows, so please be there and don't let us down.
Click to expand...

It is WAY overweight for competition.

It was set up as strictly a long range varmint rifle for portable table use with a straight taper barrel to over 1.2" at the muzzle.

If you are not limited by competition rules you can do a lot of things.
 
Hey Walkalong, nice rifle, not sure i like the scope mounts tho. What action is it built on, Rem 600?
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Captaingyro,

I had thought about the flash hole thing too. I have noticed some of them have a burr on the inside, so I used a philips head screw driver to feel for it and you can tell that some have a burr while most do not.

What is the best way to clean the flash hole up? Any tool recommendations?
 
What action is it built on
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Rosenthal action. Kelby rings and bases. Shoots as well as I will let it. I often hold it back, but it does not hold me back. ;)

I sort cases by weight for it, after much prep work. :)

Hunting ammo for 200 or so yards and in? Just toss any cases way of of the normal range for the lot.

500 yard beanfield rifle? Yea, sort them a little better and prep them carefully.

Benchrest? 1000 yard F Class shooting? Get anal about them.
Click to expand...
Still feel this way. AC
 
WNTFW,

Thanks for the info. I am wondering though, who makes one for .20 cal, I need to get one that works for my .204?
 
For my .308 I sort/weigh, and measure water volume only until I have 100 "Matched"cases.

When one of them splits I then go through the process until I find one that will match the rest.

As for accuracy, these cases (winchester) shoot pretty much like my "out of the box" Lapua brass.

I guess that one could merely buy Lapua brass and avoid the hassle.

BTW, my "Factory Stock" Remington 700 SS 5-R milspec regularly shoots under .250 groups. Last "outing" gave me a .202" group using my "matched" cases. Not too bad for a factory rifle. Something tells me there's more it can do if it just had a better "shooter".
 
Quotes from above posts:

Wow! That's really impressive! Wish I had a rifle that accurate. A rifle that "holds" under 0.2" and often under 0.1" will win any Benchrest Championship, and rewrite the record books doing so. Many of us will look forward to seeing that rifle in action this summer at the SuperShoot, and other major tournaments. It will be awesome to witness, especially after being disappointed by so many net-fantasy no-shows, so please be there and don't let us down.

It is WAY overweight for competition.

It was set up as strictly a long range varmint rifle for portable table use with a straight taper barrel to over 1.2" at the muzzle.

If you are not limited by competition rules you can do a lot of things.


Mr Brickeyee, GREAT NEWS!! I understand why you may be under the impression that your miraculously accurate rifle is too heavy for the Varmint Classes in registered Benchrest competition, but you've apparently overlooked the Unlimited Class, for which your rifle will be WELL WITHIN THE RULES! Which is all the more lucky and advantageous for you because there are both 5-shot and 10-shot group categories in the Unlimited Class, thus offering you the opportunity to win tournaments and establish new world records in both categories! Wow, lucky you! Not to take too much space here, I'll PM you with a list of sanctioned tournaments for the coming spring and summer. Pick out the ones (or all) you wish to enter. By all means be sure to shoot in the IBS, and NBRSA National Championships, both of which will offer Unlimited Class matches at 100 and 200 yards, giving you an opportunity to set records at both distances plus combined aggregates. Which means a possible total of three world records at each tournament, plus the individual group records which you will inevitably win as well. Please post in this, or separate, forum a list of all the matches you will be attending so that those of us within driving distance can be there and witness your triumphs. I'll also pass the word to a friend of mine who says he knows a gun writer who will probably want to do an article about you and your rifle for a shooting a rifle journal such as Precision Shooting. This should make an especially interesting story as you'll be winning with a caliber not usually recognized as being notably accurate.
As you so aptly state in your reply: "If you are not limited by competition rules you can do a lot of things." and now that it's clear that you aren't limited by any rules after all, the highway is open for you to accomplish what will be, in your own words, "a lot of things." You can be sure that we'll all be cheering for you, especially after so many posters have let us down by making claims similar to yours about their rifles but somehow always disappeared before the rubber hit the road.
 
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