Lake City .308 brass weight variance

Scout21

Scout21

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I went through and spot checked different years of LC .308 brass that I've got and logged the figures. The manufacture year ranged from 1964 to 2021. The heaviest piece that I weighed came in at 180.4 grains while the lightest was 174.8. I didn't calculate the mean, but it's probably between 177 and 178. All brass was fully processed.

Is the weight difference enough to sort the brass by weight and/or year?

I'm concerned that the disparity in brass weight may lead to different POI depending on the brass being used. I'm looking for a maximum of a one inch group at 100 yards, although closer to a half inch would be superb. A good portion of my loaded ammo will be for hunting, so I'd like the confidence of knowing that the brass won't hurt accuracy.

I don't have a very large amount of brass. Divvying what I have by weight and/or year would really cut down on the amount of loaded ammo I could have at any one time, so I'd like to avoid doing so unnecessarily.
 
Lc is not match grade, it's military grade and built to military specs. One inch is not unreasonable for any brass. There is loose corilation between weight and capacity but if your really doing it, your volume sorting. Would I bother doing that with LC no. If you find someone more invested than me to figure things out lmk.
 
I don’t have any exact answers for you but I did get a decent way towards a machine to sort by weight a few years ago before getting side tracked on something more important.



If you want a maximum of <MOA, do yourself a favor and don’t mess with mixed brass, including different lots, of the same MFG. The thought of trying to achieve such an accomplishment with brass ranging 57 years of production, only by weight, seems less than ideal.
 
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AJC1 said:
Lc is not match grade, it's military grade and built to military specs. One inch is not unreasonable for any brass. There is loose corilation between weight and capacity but if your really doing it, your volume sorting. Would I bother doing that with LC no. If you find someone more invested than me to figure things out lmk.
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I agree. The advantage to using military surplus brass is it’s made to stand up to the hard extraction of military weapons - thicker web and body. If in good shape, it will last well. As for the difference in accuracy, if you can shoot the difference, buy better brass.
 
I would tend to agree with what AJC said… LC is meant to be fired in machine guns, not used for match ammo. That’s is not to say it can’t produce accurate handloads, however. I would give your LC a chance to prove itself, first, though. As was mentioned… if it doesn’t deliver the accuracy you expect, move on to Plan B.

FWIW, I’ve been working with my .308 bolt gun. I’ve found different bullets make more difference in accuracy than brass, as well as powder choice, but I’ve only gotten to 150yds. I know the more I move out, the more every little detail will make itself known. I may have to retire my RP brass and spend the money on Lapua…
 
Charlie98 said:
I would tend to agree with what AJC said… LC is meant to be fired in machine guns, not used for match ammo. That’s is not to say it can’t produce accurate handloads, however. I would give your LC a chance to prove itself, first, though. As was mentioned… if it doesn’t deliver the accuracy you expect, move on to Plan B.

FWIW, I’ve been working with my .308 bolt gun. I’ve found different bullets make more difference in accuracy than brass, as well as powder choice, but I’ve only gotten to 150yds. I know the more I move out, the more every little detail will make itself known. I may have to retire my RP brass and spend the money on Lapua…
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I had a comparable result with privi at 300 as I had at 100 about 2moa. I just got access once a month to 500 yds when the boy shoots his match. Hugger shot the range with his 308 but I was playing with my dirty thirty at 100. I plan on seeing if my RP cases are as good as I think they are. I'd be very satisfied with one moa at five hundred because we know environmental conditions make that harder.
 
Scout21 said:
I went through and spot checked different years of LC .308 brass that I've got and logged the figures. The manufacture year ranged from 1964 to 2021. The heaviest piece that I weighed came in at 180.4 grains while the lightest was 174.8. I didn't calculate the mean, but it's probably between 177 and 178. All brass was fully processed.

Is the weight difference enough to sort the brass by weight and/or year?

I'm concerned that the disparity in brass weight may lead to different POI depending on the brass being used. I'm looking for a maximum of a one inch group at 100 yards, although closer to a half inch would be superb. A good portion of my loaded ammo will be for hunting, so I'd like the confidence of knowing that the brass won't hurt accuracy.

I don't have a very large amount of brass. Divvying what I have by weight and/or year would really cut down on the amount of loaded ammo I could have at any one time, so I'd like to avoid doing so unnecessarily.
Click to expand...

High standards equal high quality and mixed brass is a bit of a crap shoot with mixed results and skewed data, if you want good reloads use good components.
 
In a hunting application, shooting from field positions, any variation in the brass would be well inside shooter induced variability.

Brass weight also doesn’t correlate to capacity so in my opinion this investment in time could be better used elsewhere.

This is coming from a guy who does a full load development for all my hunting rounds. It’s way overkill for minute of deer but I enjoy it.

I also don’t weigh-sort my match brass. I just keep everything consistent to the same lot.

If I were you, and I wanted to be picky, I’d segregate by head stamp/year and call it good. Spend the time you saved at the range.
 
JDeere said:
If your not shooting benchrest don't bother. I use it in my M14s and Garands. Good stuff...
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This is the environment where LC shines. It's more robust design is great for use in semiautomatic guns. A side bonus is it used to be really cheap or free, and just laying around. In today's market your just better off buying what you need, unless your struggling and or have access to large volumes of free brass.
 
Internal capacity of the case, sometimes measured in grains of water, is one factor that could cause some variation in POI. But remember that the specific gravity of brass is eight-point-something so if the entire weight variation of your brass translates to water capacity it will only result in less than a grain of water difference. The large number of years that you have guarantees that much of it was manufactured in different plants with different machinery and brass supplies. So even if it weighs the same there will be other slight differences between years.

I like LC brass and use it in many of my hunting loads because it shoots well enough and I know I will lose some from time to time.

You can put all of these uncertainties to rest and buy 100 commercial headstamped brass (Lapua would be a good choice). Then you will know that your brass is not the problem.
 
I would probably load it all with whatever load that you choose and then pick out like headstamps for hunting or shooting groups. If shooting good groups is important to you quality components need to be important to you too. Mixed brass will probably cover most of your needs. I use mixed brass on our Prairie Dog hunts and its works fine. Groups between 5/8 and 3/4 inch and I don't cry or waste any time looking if I loose a piece in the grass. Lapua shoots tighter groups but the PD's don't know that!
 
Nature Boy said:
In a hunting application, shooting from field positions, any variation in the brass would be well inside shooter induced variability.

Brass weight also doesn’t correlate to capacity so in my opinion this investment in time could be better used elsewhere.
Click to expand...

That was kind of my thought as well. When I started loading for my bolt gun, I had a 250cs lot of RP brass... so that's what I've been using. I've not bothered to weigh it, or anything else besides normal case prep, and have done pretty good. My hope is, of course, that my shooting skillz will develop enough where getting picky about brass will actually show up on the target... but I'm not fooling myself. I figure my current combo of rifle, skill, and reloading technique will get me to 500yds... and by then I'll need a new barrel, anyway, and I can go from there.
 
Scout21 said:
I'd estimate about 125 pieces total of LC. Some are range pickups and some came from a very kind member here on THR.
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As @Nature Boy pointed out before, weight may not have alot to do with actual case capacity, so what can you do?
Weight sorting is a step, but is far from perfect. For example, you said you were averaging 177-178 with a few heavy and light outliers at 180 and 175, removing those might just be enough, or it may make absolutely no difference on the target. Ive been able to get consistent .750-1" 5 shot groups from LC 308 brass with no weight sorting and no headstamp sorting but your mileage may vary on that. I load my 308 hunting ammo with that specific load and call it "minute of deer" and dont obsess about it too much.
 
Scout21 said:
I went through and spot checked different years of LC .308 brass that I've got and logged the figures. The manufacture year ranged from 1964 to 2021. The heaviest piece that I weighed came in at 180.4 grains while the lightest was 174.8. I didn't calculate the mean, but it's probably between 177 and 178. All brass was fully processed.

Is the weight difference enough to sort the brass by weight and/or year?

I'm concerned that the disparity in brass weight may lead to different POI depending on the brass being used. I'm looking for a maximum of a one inch group at 100 yards, although closer to a half inch would be superb. A good portion of my loaded ammo will be for hunting, so I'd like the confidence of knowing that the brass won't hurt accuracy.

I don't have a very large amount of brass. Divvying what I have by weight and/or year would really cut down on the amount of loaded ammo I could have at any one time, so I'd like to avoid doing so unnecessarily.
Click to expand...

At least in my mind there is no difference to sorting by weight and year of manufacture. You're chasing the white elephant in the room. As others have said it might get you close. But close only counts in horse shoes, hand grenades and atomic bombs. There is nothing wrong with it for minute of deer. Serious bench rest shooters might present a case for doing so. But in all likelihood not because powder capacity is measured by volume of H2O not weight. Besides accuracy is when it all boils down to it is up to the nut behind the trigger.

There is nothing wrong with doing so if it cures an itch in your analytical nature. As a hand loader myself I have my own quirks as do we all. Good luck.
 
Mauser fan said:
There is nothing wrong with doing so if it cures an itch in your analytical nature.
Click to expand...

Back when I had a big lot of LC brass (2K+ cases...) I segregated it by headstamp, but that was largely to control all that brass in smaller lots. It's easier to trim, say, LC07 as a small lot, than one big wad of 2000 cases. Further, if you start to see anomalies... neck splits, case head separations, etc... it's also easier to isolate it.
 
I look for always improving groups mostly at 100 yards. I have shot the same lot and mixed. And I really can't find any big difference in grouping by Mfr., by weight or units of water. I don't mean it can't make a difference, but not at 100 yards. I have found my guns love a specific seating depth and certain types of powder and even some bullets. Right now I 'm at .68 to.75 MOA with a 1970 Rem. 700 30.06 . I may be at my limit for that old gun. When I get out to 300 yd match shooting, I may try to measure cases.
 
Thomasss said:
I look for always improving groups mostly at 100 yards. I have shot the same lot and mixed. And I really can't find any big difference in grouping by Mfr., by weight or units of water. I don't mean it can't make a difference, but not at 100 yards. I have found my guns love a specific seating depth and certain types of powder and even some bullets. Right now I 'm at .68 to.75 MOA with a 1970 Rem. 700 30.06 . I may be at my limit for that old gun. When I get out to 300 yd match shooting, I may try to measure cases.
Click to expand...
As always brass is a minor factor. Barrels, bullets and powder have a waaaaaay more profound effect.
 
AJC1 said:
Lc is not match grade, it's military grade and built to military specs. One inch is not unreasonable for any brass. There is loose corilation between weight and capacity but if your really doing it, your volume sorting. Would I bother doing that with LC no. If you find someone more invested than me to figure things out lmk.
Click to expand...

Correction : Some LC is Match grade ,it depends on Which LC one is talking about . I randomly grabbed #22 cases LC 1953 weighed them , ALL weigh 12.4 Grams or 191.3612 grains . Fyi ; There isn't enough variance to differentiate between a full grain on any of them and I DIDN'T do anything other than clean trim to 2.010-12 " and they're 7.62X51mm as they are in fact Military and heavier case with less internal volume cases .
 
Scout21 said:
I went through and spot checked different years of LC .308 brass that I've got and logged the figures. The manufacture year ranged from 1964 to 2021. The heaviest piece that I weighed came in at 180.4 grains while the lightest was 174.8. I didn't calculate the mean, but it's probably between 177 and 178. All brass was fully processed.

Is the weight difference enough to sort the brass by weight and/or year?

I'm concerned that the disparity in brass weight may lead to different POI depending on the brass being used. I'm looking for a maximum of a one inch group at 100 yards, although closer to a half inch would be superb. A good portion of my loaded ammo will be for hunting, so I'd like the confidence of knowing that the brass won't hurt accuracy.

I don't have a very large amount of brass. Divvying what I have by weight and/or year would really cut down on the amount of loaded ammo I could have at any one time, so I'd like to avoid doing so unnecessarily.
Click to expand...

May I ask What You're doing with the brass ? . Nature Boy gave you sound advice . I'd add clean well trim 2.015 or slightly less sort head stamp as he advised and load em shoot em . Just My opinion but Charge coupled with bullet weight is far more important than brass weight regarding POI . FYI : My LC 1953 weigh 12.4 grams or 191.3612 grains and I just grabbed a big handful randomly and weighed em . Fyi : These have seen #25 firing out of MY M14 and M1A's ,with NO outward sign of deterioration ,even the Rims are nice and slip into case gauge . The 1953-57 brass is TOUGH STUFF . I have NO way of telling if these were match or strictly issue but they did indeed come from a Military Base Range , I was gifted several 5 gallon buckets of 45 + years left to the weather brass in various calibers , that much I do know :D
 
BushMaster-15 said:
Correction : Some LC is Match grade ,it depends on Which LC one is talking about . I randomly grabbed #22 cases LC 1953 weighed them , ALL weigh 12.4 Grams or 191.3612 grains . Fyi ; There isn't enough variance to differentiate between a full grain on any of them and I DIDN'T do anything other than clean trim to 2.010-12 " and they're 7.62X51mm as they are in fact Military and heavier case with less internal volume cases .
Click to expand...
Cool I just go on line and order 100 of those for my next match. Any suggestions on who has them in stock.
 
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