acceptable accuracy: New Sendero .300 Ultra

[mewachee]

What would you call acceptable accuracy on a newly broken in Remington Sendero? This rifle is intended to be a very long range rifle. I have 2,000 into the scope and mounting it. No improvements have been done to the rifle, YET. However, I am blown away with my results.

I am bench shooting, solid rest.
I have followed good break in and cleaning practices.
I have worked up several loads, Hornady, Berger, Barnes over retumbo and h50bmg.
I have fired factory ammo, for which I would expect the standards of this rifle would begin.


First, I would like to hear your responses, then I will compare my results with your responses. For now, let's just say that an entry level remington 700 would put this rifle to shame.

 

[M1key]

I owned the Sendaro in 300WM that was easily capable on putting five handloads into ~.65 inches at one hundred yards from a bench. Never shot it more than 30 rounds or for groups at ranges beyond that. Recoil was right at my pain threshold, so I sold it.

 

[C-grunt]

I would expect it to be at least a sub moa shooter.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

I expect just about any modern sporter to be able to achieve 1.5 MOA with at least one type of factory ammunition. For the Sendero, I would be disappointed if I couldn't get it to hold MOA with at least one factory load. I have yet to see a M700 that couldn't easily be handloaded with hunting projectiles to MOA or better. That includes new models such as my BDL 7mm Rem Mag as well as several older ADLs manufactured back in the 70s when the safety still locked the bolt.

 

[strambo]

I would expect 1 MOA to .75 MOA 5 rd groups. For that rifle, I would be more concerned with 300 yd performance vs 100 yds and use that as the standard.

I have the Winchester version (M70 Laredo) in 300 WM, my rifle will do .90" with Fed premium 190 gr factory ammo and 3/4" with my handloads at 100, same .75 MOA at 300.

 

[mewachee]

Here goes

I used 220 gr round nose bullets for the break in. My intent was to put more copper to the barrel. This barrel does not foul at all. When I got to 30 rounds, I began to work up loads to continue with the break in. I have had 3 out of 5 be 1.5 moa, but never had all 5 inside 3 in. groups.

To rule out my own loading practices, I bought a box of remington scirrocos loaded. I got a 5 or 6 in group. I shot 10 and had them all all over, not just one or two that could be ruled out due to shooters error. I have shot 80 rounds through this barrel now, with no real improvement.

 

[375shooter]

I used 220 gr round nose bullets for the break in. My intent was to put more copper to the barrel. This barrel does not foul at all. When I got to 30 rounds, I began to work up loads to continue with the break in. I have had 3 out of 5 be 1.5 moa, but never had all 5 inside 3 in. groups.

To rule out my own loading practices, I bought a box of remington scirrocos loaded. I got a 5 or 6 in group. I shot 10 and had them all all over, not just one or two that could be ruled out due to shooters error. I have shot 80 rounds through this barrel now, with no real improvement.

Have a look at the bedding to see if there is any uneven pressure anywhere along the length of the barrel. A bad scope can probably be ruled since you have $2000 invested. It must be a quality brand.

Unfortunately, in my experience, when a gun shoots as badly as 5 or 6 inches at 100 yards, it's the result of a bad barrel and no amount of tuning or accurizing will make any significant improvement. I really hope this is not the case, and that you are able to get it shooting to your satisfaction. Good luck with it.

 

[JDGray]

Does it hurt like a mofo to shoot? You may be pulling, flinching, jerking..... Have someone load the thing for you, and have them run an empty in the mix.

 

[NCsmitty]

mewachee, please don't be offended, but do you think that there is a possibility that your shooting technique may be contributing to the poor groups?

The recoil and muzzle blast of a 300 Ultra Mag is rather vigorous and some shooters can develop an undetected flinch with lesser calibers.

Do you have anyone who could shoot a couple groups with your rifle to see if holds true?



NCsmitty

 

[Welding Rod]

I would expect .5 to .75 MOA for 5 rounds of favored loads. I wouldn't have much use for a "precision" rig that wouldn't do that.

 

[mewachee]

Very good points on the shooter. But no, I do not have a flinch. The trigger hasn't been lowered yet, but it is a smooth and crisp trigger. I have a much lighter .270 loaded pretty hot that hits me at least as hard from the same bench setup. I shoot the .270 at 1/2 in. groups when the kick starts to get to me.

I have a nightforce scope on the rifle, which adds some good weight. I also had a 3200 elite Bushnell scope on with the same results.

This rifle comes standard with an upper end H.S. Precision stock.

So here is my thinking, good stock, heavy barrel, rem 700 action, one piece base and rings, and a nightforce scope. I am hoping it is just the crown. I need to find a gunsmith, and will start with this. Can any of you think of something else that could have that much effect on the grouping?

 

[mewachee]

Welding Rod, I agree with you 100%. When I purchased this rifle, I had high expectations. I was told that I would not have to do anything with this rifle.

I hope there is just a simple flaw.


Those of you who have asked about the kick. I have not find there to be a problem. I did have a 210 gn vld loaded close to max that felt like I was getting punched, but that was a 210 gn bullet at 3100 fps. I also had the 3200 elite on it then, which is much lighter than the nightforce.

 

[benzy2]

I don't see a crown cutting groups from 6" down to sub MOA. If it were me it would go to Remington to see what they can do. Unless the crown is ugly enough you can obviously see a major problem I would send it to Remington.

 

[Strongbad]

Try some other powders, like RL25 or H1000. I've had good luck with those in my 300 RUM Sendero. It could just be that it doesnt like your loads. I know you tried factory ammo, so it probably isnt the case, but I've had select match Shilen barrels be very finicky. So if it can happen to a custom barrel like that, it can darn sure happen to a factory barrel.

 

[mewachee]

I new my hand loads would be better than factory, at least you would hope so.
It seams to me that even if the barrel is slightly bent and the end of the barrel is okay that groups should be better than this. We are talking the same accuracy as a twelve gauge smooth bore shooting slugs.

benzy2, I was under the impression that Remington did not have a guarantee. I was told that I would be on my own. I spent a lot of time getting my .270 shooting, but eventually got it shooting better than myself. However, I purchased a more expensive rifle hoping to alleviate such problems.

I could be wrong, but I feel like this rifle should start about M.O.A. with factory ammo.

I will call Remington in the morning.

 

[mewachee]

On it's way

I pulled the rifle apart to check everything. I then put it back together, giving extra attention to bolts. I then shoot another group, 5 inches.

I went in to talk to the dealer, now it is on it's way to Remington. I hope they are the type of company that want's to make thing right.

Their rifle, their ammo, their caliber and a heavy barrel. I think it should shoot M.O.A. before I even try to shoot hand loads through it.

I have heard of people sending rifles in to the manufacturer, only to have them say nothing is wrong. Then ironically, the rifle shoots much better. I should have carefully marked the parts . This way I could check to see if they change something , even if they say they didn't.

 

[Welding Rod]

5 or 6 MOA is horrible. I don't think I have ever shot a rifle that bad, including old Mini 14s. I have a hard time imagining what in a rifle could possible make it shoot that bad short of some fluke with the inside dimensioning of the barrel.

Ruling out an odd ammo QC issue since you tried at least several loads, the only other two things I can think of would be if the barrel (not the stock forend) was rested on something during shooting, or if there were something wrong in the optic or its mounts.