Acceptable Garand Accuracy?

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TheHappyGunner

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Hi guys.

I took my Garand to the range today. It was ~10 degrees out (brr!) with a little wind, but I just had to get out to shoot my new handloads! This was my first attempt at handloading for my Springfield Garand (January 1955) and as such, is the only custom load I have assembled/tested so far. Here's what I used:

Greek HXP brass
Spitzer 150 gr soft points (flat base)
48 grains of IMR 4895
Remington large rifle primers

The first photo is my first group. The second photo is my second "group", shot right after the first one. It opened up quite a bit.. Did it open up because the barrel heated up? I did raise my elevation dial from 325 yds to 450 yds. Also, I have shot hundreds of surplus rounds through the barrel and have never detail cleaned it. It may be copper fouled. If it is, does copper fouling usually negatively affect accuracy? I'm trying to think why the second 8-shot string opened up so much. Heck, it might just be shooter error :D

So what do you guys think? Is the first group ok for a Garand, and what do you think happened on the 2nd target? Thanks!

Additional info: This was at 100 yards. Seems like some of you can't see the pictures? My computer is telling me they're attached.
 

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Where's the picture?

Try cleaning your rifle with an ammonia-based cleaner. I'll bet your patches come out a bright green -- and it'll take dozens of patches before they finally come out white. Then you'll have to season the barrel with a dozen rounds or so before it settles down, but that should restore accuracy.
 
Yeah, sorry about the absence of the pictures. Got them uploaded now. My first attempt at posting was from my phone. It got the text but not the pictures, so I had to hop on the laptop to get the pictures on here.
 
How does the gun shoot with M2 surplus? Make sure the barrel is clean, and that the trigger guard latches the receiver and stock together tightly before you adjust your load. That load is similar to what I use in my Garand (I am using H4895). If the rifle shoots well with other ammo, drop your powder charge a few grains and try seating the bullets further out, then work back up.
 
Yeah no pictures...

The aiming black of the standard SR1 highpower targets is about 6 MOA. I think "acceptable" accuracy would be to keep all your shots in the black. I'm assuming an as issued configuration, not National Match grade.

I don't have the dimensions of the 10 ring at my fingertips, but figure its about 4 MOA. IMO, to keep all of your shots in the 10 ring would be outstanding accuracy. That doesn't happen very often.

Things that typically affect accuracy are the op rod rubbing on something, a dirty gas cylinder and a loose stock. A fouled barrel could also contribute. I'd give her a good cleaning, including the gas cylinder. Look for rub marks on the op rod. Your stock is at least 59 years old. There are ways to shim it up with cardboard (not CMP legal) to make it tighter. A replacement stock is another option. Garand accurizing is an art, hopefully you have a mentor to help.

Finally, your load looks like a reasonable M2 ball approximation from my experience. You could try monkeying with it some, maybe lower your load by a 1/2 grain or so.

Laphroaig
 
Aren't Remingtons the "soft" primers? Or is that Federals? If they are, you may want to switch to help minimize chances for a slam fire. I have seen a couple and it isn't pretty. Personally I use CCI commercial or 7.62 primers. I believe Winchesters are supposed to be a little on the harder side too.

That is a hard target to shoot really accurately on as there is no way most people could see the 1" target center at 100 yards. If the sheet was placed on a uniform background maybe it wouldn't be too bad. When shooting for groups with irons a well defined and visible target helps a lot.

My best advice is make sure there is a tiny bit of fore and aft movement on both hand guards. Then as the barrel heats up the POI won't change much.
 
Well, that's good news I guess. Back when I first got the gun two years ago, I did a bunch of Garand "no-no"s (cleaning rods, dis assembly, etc) but nothing really bad (I only did a couple of cleanings with a rod before I learned that was a bad idea). I know better now. It's good to know that she's still capable!
 
1. After it is completely warmed up verify that the rear handguard moves freely.
2. Make sure your gas plug is tight.
3. I only used CCI LR primers ( not the MILSPEC) - never a problem.
 
Back when I first got the gun two years ago, I did a bunch of Garand "no-no"s (cleaning rods, dis assembly, etc
Click to expand...

What are you talking about re cleaning rods, disassembly, etc? What are the no nos?

You're supposed to disassemble it to properly lubricate it. It's a no no to clean it with a cleaning rod? The only no no of which I'm aware is do not use a segmented cleaning rod. And what's the "etc?" What else did you do (that you heard) you weren't supposed to do?

Back to topic, you said you've fired a substantial number of surplus rounds through the gun. From the pictures, your groups look to be about 8 inches with handloads?

What were your groups with the surplus ammo?
 
I would say the average accuracy for a Garand would be 3"??? Some will shoot better, some not so good. I've learned that my M1 Garand will shoot 2-3" depending on how well I'm shooting that day.

The 10-ring on this target is 3" and was shot from 100 yards. IMR-4895, Remington brass, CCI 200 LR primers with 150 and 168 grain bullets.
150FMJM1Garand10-14-2004.jpg

168BTHP-17-9-04.jpg
 
You also need to remember that this is with iron sights and not a scoped rifle. This could account for some of the group being what it is. I think with the target that you're using that is a very acceptable group. Yes cleaning the bore might help to a certain extent but probably not much.
 
It's my understanding that service acceptance standard for an M1 Garand was 5" at 100 yards. I'm sure that the average accepted rifle shot better than that. Most of the Garand shooters I have spoken to say that the Garand will hold 4MOA out to its service designated effective range of 500 yards.
 
shooting in cold weather opens your groups quite a bit more than when hot. since there is more difference between a 10 degree barrel and 120 degree barrel than there is on a hot summer day where it could be 80 degree cold to 120 degree hot. the 120 is just a random number I threw out there but you get the idea.

also, some guns just don't like certain powders. my M1895 straight pull and 6.5 japanese rifles love 4064(if I recall correctly that has an acceptable burn rate for garands but you may want to double check) but my M77 ruger in 30-06 does absolutely terrible with 4064 and instead seems to prefer varget loads(I know for a fact that is an acceptable garand powder).

you may have to play around with different powders to get a good load for it.
 
I'm betting the rifle is better than the targets displayed. Copper fouling may or may not come into play. Older barrels like some copper build-up. It helps smooth out the bore. When I scrub out the copper it usually takes 20-30 rounds down the tube to establish the accuracy of the barrel.
 
my M77 ruger in 30-06 does absolutely terrible with 4064 and instead seems to prefer varget loads(I know for a fact that is an acceptable garand powder
Click to expand...
I've had an 8-lb keg of Varget on backorder for six months, and I'll try it on my Garand. What do you use, the recommended starting load?
 
I wouldn't be happy with that accuracy. I would say around 3" groups would be what I would expect from a rifle like that, and most of those would be 2" with a flyer or two.

If you don't shoot Garands or iron sights much, it could be you. Certainly could be the rifle too. The cold weather doesn't help.

You should first try a range of powder charges. In both my as-issued rifles and my match rifle a few grains difference can double or triple group size. Also, bullet types matter, again doubling or tripling the group size.

An easy out would be to get a box or two of Hornady's match Garand ammo and give it a try. USGI ammo should hold about 4 inches.

If you can find a load that groups around 2.5" I would say you are at the limit of what you can reasonably expect without some gunsmithing.

A trigger job wouldn't hurt accuracy either.

-J.
 
Steve in PA said:
I would say the average accuracy for a Garand would be 3"??? Some will shoot better, some not so good. I've learned that my M1 Garand will shoot 2-3" depending on how well I'm shooting that day.
Click to expand...

I think Steve has the most realistic view of it. I've asked this question before and have gotten answers like they should be able to do 1 MOA, etc. I'm not yet convinced of that. Some of the things I've learned from my experience and talking to a true real expert:

1. The Garand is pretty tolerant to infrequent cleaning. That said, I get my barrel squeaky clean frequently and haven't found compulsive cleaning to contribute much to accuracy. My Garand, by the way, is a completely overhauled pristine version.

2. The advice to use mil spec primers is good. In my experience, CCI primers are the hardest and Remington probably the least hard. I've never had an open bolt slam fire (a BIG deal) but have had multiple closed bolt slam fires (not so big a deal). The slam fire problem was cured by using a small base die for resizing my brass; not all Garands need ammo sized with a small base die however.

3. Unless you have an adjustable gas block, never shoot bullets at or greater than 180 grains in weight.

4. Several reloading manuals (Hornady, Speer and Lyman) list Garand safe powders.
 
Thanks for the replies, guys. Like I said, this is the first handload formula I have tried, and I anticipate trying other powders soon. My Lyman manual says that they expect 4065 to perform the best with flat based 150 grain bullets like I'm using, so I'll probably try that out next. Also I'll take all of your advice and try out CCI primers for my new loads. Now about my bullets..

No one in my area carries 150 FMJs. Does anybody make these? I settled on soft points and they seem to do pretty well. The feeding ramp seems to mangle the points sometimes though. I can imagine that FMJs would almost certainly preform the best of any bullet. I won't move onto 168 grain bullets just yet as I don't shoot far enough to warrant the extra bullet weights. Someday I'm sure but not right now. So... any idea as far as 150 gr FMJs?
 
TheHappyGunner said:
Thanks for the replies, guys. Like I said, this is the first handload formula I have tried, and I anticipate trying other powders soon. My Lyman manual says that they expect 4065 to perform the best with flat based 150 grain bullets like I'm using, so I'll probably try that out next. Also I'll take all of your advice and try out CCI primers for my new loads. Now about my bullets..

No one in my area carries 150 FMJs. Does anybody make these? I settled on soft points and they seem to do pretty well. The feeding ramp seems to mangle the points sometimes though. I can imagine that FMJs would almost certainly preform the best of any bullet. I won't move onto 168 grain bullets just yet as I don't shoot far enough to warrant the extra bullet weights. Someday I'm sure but not right now. So... any idea as far as 150 gr FMJs?
Click to expand...


You can order them over the internet. Try Graf's and the other suppliers. :)
 
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