Acceptable offhand group for hunting

[brewer12345]

My youngest brother and I tried to race to break a milk jug at 100 yards. It was 10 yards, stop and shoot. It took 3 or 4 tries before it died. I don't bother taking rushed shots on deer. I hate tracking.
Like you in best with sticks. Preferably sticks and plenty of time.

I don't take rushed shots either. That said, I have found that if I practice the harder shots it is a lot easier to make the easier ones. I think the trick to unsupported shooting is getting used to how you have to hold your balance/weight differently, especially if you are carrying a long barreled or heavy rifle. It still takes time to calm down and line the shot up, but it is a lot more doable with practice. Obviously a rested/supported shot is better.

 

[Mogas]

At a shakey 74 years of age with injuries, off hand to me means OFF Paper or off target . I need every advantage I can get to steady my aim.
whether that being a shooting stick, sandbags, bipod etc. Without that, I don't take the shot and wait until I am in a better place , stand or position. The one exception I might make if I was up close to a hog and I have my semi-auto 6.5 grendel with me. Hogs are becoming a pest here lately.. Love to rid my land of them

 

[citizenconn]

I heartily recommend shooting sticks or a monopod over offhand shooting. My hunting partner and I mainly still hunt for deer in a national forest and use a lightweight monopod as a walking stick and shooting rest. Its easily adjustable and helps old geezers like us get around, too.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I heartily recommend shooting sticks or a monopod over offhand shooting. My hunting partner and I mainly still hunt for deer in a national forest and use a lightweight monopod as a walking stick and shooting rest. Its easily adjustable and helps old geezers like us get around, too.
View attachment 1102484

Mine is the bipod version. I have a thong that lashes it into a single while walking. I use it as a bipod while seated.
I made a 290 yard shot on a coyote with it. I definitely couldn't have without it.

 

[Random 8]

I think we are conflating a few concepts here. "Offhand" as it applies to hunting, to me means, shooting unsupported in a generally standing position with a sling wrapped if possible. I think some of the posts are adding field expedient rests and some combination of sitting with elbows on knees with a sling (I call it chair prone as it is nearly as accurate as full sling NRA prone for me).

Following are the dimensions of the NRA SR-1 (100 yard) high power target. I shoot a lot of high power with a lot of very good shooters so it makes a good yardstick for me.
4.2 100 Yard Targets (a) NRA No. SR-1 Reduction of the SR Target for use at 100 yards to simulate the 200-yard stages of the National Match Course. Aiming Black (inches) Rings in White (inches) X ring ..................1.35 10 ring ..................................3.35 9 ring ....................................6.35 8 ring..................................9.35. I've omitted diameters larger than 8 ring as I think they fall outside of useful field accuracy.

In high power matches, I have only ever seen one clean 100 score fired with something resembling a hunting rifle (CMP service rifle 4x optic). I've seen more with match rifles, but if you look up what a match rifle is, you'll see they bear little resemblance to what you'd hunt deer with. These are generally on the 200 yard target so there is a bit more range involved, but the targets are the same in terms of MOA. It is fairly common with the top shooters to see a 10 round string all 9s or better, falling into what I think the consensus is for acceptable field accuracy. It is also quite common to see a top shooter string together 7 or 8 10s and a couple of 8s or a pulled shot into the outer rings. Looking at the dimensions of an 8 ring hit, we are getting into the realm of possible wounded deer from a guy who probably won the match against a tough field if he didn't choke a prone or sitting stage. We are talking about people who play this game at known distance and relatively stable range conditions who fire hundreds, sometimes thousands of rounds in said game and practice for same per year.

I think it would be the rare hunter who could take his or her hunting rifle out and run a string of 9/10 shots 9 or better offhand consistently. I can't. I might do it half the time, but the other half, odds are I'm throwing one too many 8s or a "bad one" into the mix. Now you add some extra support...either a field expedient rest, or some extra body mechanics in tandem with a tight sling wrap, and the odds improve considerably. I consider myself a 200 yard chair prone, sitting, kneeling, prone or field expedient rest shooter on game. Add in a solid rail with padding and a good shooting position and I'll push it to 400. Practice on 6" diameter targets bear this out. Offhand/sling, I'm confident at 75 if I feel the shot. Not to say I haven't shot farther offhand, and done it successfully, but I was knowingly pushing my luck.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I think we are conflating a few concepts here. "Offhand" as it applies to hunting, to me means, shooting unsupported in a generally standing position with a sling wrapped if possible. I think some of the posts are adding field expedient rests and some combination of sitting with elbows on knees with a sling (I call it chair prone as it is nearly as accurate as full sling NRA prone for me).

Following are the dimensions of the NRA SR-1 (100 yard) high power target. I shoot a lot of high power with a lot of very good shooters so it makes a good yardstick for me.
4.2 100 Yard Targets (a) NRA No. SR-1 Reduction of the SR Target for use at 100 yards to simulate the 200-yard stages of the National Match Course. Aiming Black (inches) Rings in White (inches) X ring ..................1.35 10 ring ..................................3.35 9 ring ....................................6.35 8 ring..................................9.35. I've omitted diameters larger than 8 ring as I think they fall outside of useful field accuracy.

In high power matches, I have only ever seen one clean 100 score fired with something resembling a hunting rifle (CMP service rifle 4x optic). I've seen more with match rifles, but if you look up what a match rifle is, you'll see they bear little resemblance to what you'd hunt deer with. These are generally on the 200 yard target so there is a bit more range involved, but the targets are the same in terms of MOA. It is fairly common with the top shooters to see a 10 round string all 9s or better, falling into what I think the consensus is for acceptable field accuracy. It is also quite common to see a top shooter string together 7 or 8 10s and a couple of 8s or a pulled shot into the outer rings. Looking at the dimensions of an 8 ring hit, we are getting into the realm of possible wounded deer from a guy who probably won the match against a tough field if he didn't choke a prone or sitting stage. We are talking about people who play this game at known distance and relatively stable range conditions who fire hundreds, sometimes thousands of rounds in said game and practice for same per year.

I think it would be the rare hunter who could take his or her hunting rifle out and run a string of 9/10 shots 9 or better offhand consistently. I can't. I might do it half the time, but the other half, odds are I'm throwing one too many 8s or a "bad one" into the mix. Now you add some extra support...either a field expedient rest, or some extra body mechanics in tandem with a tight sling wrap, and the odds improve considerably. I consider myself a 200 yard chair prone, sitting, kneeling, prone or field expedient rest shooter on game. Add in a solid rail with padding and a good shooting position and I'll push it to 400. Practice on 6" diameter targets bear this out. Offhand/sling, I'm confident at 75 if I feel the shot. Not to say I haven't shot farther offhand, and done it successfully, but I was knowingly pushing my luck.

This was well written. Thanks.
The one thing that match shooting doesn't allow is the shooter to cancel a shot that that don't feel comfortable with.
I haven't missed offhand, or slung offhand. But I've scoped many times only to lower the rifle and move on. Because I didn't feel if make a good shot at that moment.
The sticks are a good suggestion for "cheating" if that's even possible when it comes to making a good shot on game.

 

[Random 8]

I prefer H4895 over Varget. The IMR version is acceptable too.

This was well written. Thanks.
The one thing that match shooting doesn't allow is the shooter to cancel a shot that that don't feel comfortable with.
I haven't missed offhand, or slung offhand. But I've scoped many times only to lower the rifle and move on. Because I didn't feel if make a good shot at that moment.
The sticks are a good suggestion for "cheating" if that's even possible when it comes to making a good shot on game.

Oh but it does! You still need to send the rounds for the stage, but you can choose when it feels good or not so much. Watch the slow fire standing stage of a match. The best shooters will often "cancel" a shot. That is put the trigger finger back to ready position and lower the rifle, reset, and try again. There is time. One must learn this to shoot good offhand scores. Sometimes I catch myself forcing the shot instead of resetting just to finish this stage of the match, and the results are predictably bad in most cases. Sometimes a lucky "look what I found " 10, usually something outside the 9 ring.

Ditto with game hunting. If the shot doesn't feel solid, it probably isn't!

 

[FL-NC]

You could always order these off amazon, shoot at them offhand (or whatever position you want), and shortcut through the theory of what "good enough" is. I tack these things to my cube target when I practice with my crossbow.

 

[jmorris]

This session she shot at 50 yards and managed 2.5 inches in a circular group.
These are 10-20 shot groups.

I wouldn’t worry about anyone that can put 20 into 2.5” offhand at 50 yards, I imagine most that don’t practice (probably a bigger number of hunters than you might think) couldn’t do that.

How far away are we talking about the animal being?

 

[Seedy Character]

She WANTS to get better at off hand shooting. The ONLY way to do that is to practice off hand shooting.

If she is shooting minute of deer, then she is capable and shooting well.

Our range has benches and an elevated stand on the firing line. Target stands are at 100, 200, 300 yards, with an 8" steel gong at 300 yards.
I work up loads at 100, 200, then 300 yards. After the load is set. All my shooting is off hand, from the elevated stand and on the ground, 90% at the 300 yard gong.
Consistent (9/10) gong hits off hand, make ANY supported shot very easy. Confidence in making the shot is a major part of making the shot.

I carried a shooting stick for years. I am not capable of long walks, now. My grandson was taught to shoot with the stick. He couldn't hold the rifle with it. At 23, he still uses it.

Your Wife is a fine shot (hitting clays from rest) and is improving with off hand practice. Encourage and support her. She will continue to improve and build confidence.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I wouldn’t worry about anyone that can put 20 into 2.5” offhand at 50 yards, I imagine most that don’t practice (probably a bigger number of hunters than you might think) couldn’t do that.

How far away are we talking about the animal being?

Missouri hardwoods. It's a stretch to find 150 yards.

 

[Bfh_auto]

You could always order these off amazon, shoot at them offhand (or whatever position you want), and shortcut through the theory of what "good enough" is. I tack these things to my cube target when I practice with my crossbow.
View attachment 1102796

Those always seem way too big when I shoot at them.

 

[WisBorn]

To get better at offhand shooting, try pop (soda, coke, depending on what part of rhe country you live) cans.
The smaller target makes you a better shot. Bouncing a can around is fun with a 22lr or your favorite deer rifle.

 

[Bfh_auto]

To get better at offhand shooting, try pop (soda, coke, depending on what part of rhe country you live) cans.
The smaller target makes you a better shot. Bouncing a can around is fun with a 22lr or your favorite deer rifle.

That is fun. We used to line them up and shoot till we miss. Sometimes we started on the left and right and raced to the center. We're at a conservation range were only paper targets are allowed. I haven't asked if clays are allowed in the rifle side.
She's running a plated 150 with bullseye in her 30-30. I've noticed follow through is more important with this reduced load than an actual hunting one.
A person would think the lighter load would be easier to shoot well. But it isn't the case offhand.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Most of the time at the public range all you see are shooters and hunters alike shooting off bags on the bench. I am one of the few who shoot offhand and with my hand resting against the upright of the canopy like it's a small tree in the woods. Like said so many times in this thread, the only way to get better at offhand shooting is to shoot offhand.

There are a lot of very good posts in this thread. Also like said, it seems your wife is shooting better than a lot of hunters who have been doing it for many years. Most vitals on a deer are at least 8" roundish area. Her shooting is less than half that. I see no reason to expect 1" groups offhand @100 yards. I couldn't do that on my best day and there are very few who can. (maybe the Camp Perry top shooters)

20 shots into a 2.5" circle @50 yards you say? That is really good shooting without a doubt. Here in Northeast PA where I hunt, 80 yards is usually the furthest shot you will take. Your wife would not miss here with shooting like that, don't worry about her.

 

[Okie_Poke]

I'll chime in with what I shot at the range on Sunday. I've been practicing field shooting positions getting ready for hunting season and trying not to shoot from a bench. Disclaimer: I am way worse at shooting unsupported offhand than I have any right to be. That's why I'm practicing. It's also why I use a rest whenever possible; a little bit helps a lot. I was shooting at 6" targets and only counting hits vs. misses.

I shot three groups at 100 yards unsupported offhand. I was only able to keep all of the shots from one group within 6 inches. The other two groups spread out to 8 inches or maybe a bit more (I didn't measure because all that mattered was it was a miss). Unless my continued practice yields substantial improvement, I'm not shooting offhand unsupported past 50ish yards this year. I hadn't practiced offhand unsupported shooting in several years and was shocked to learn how bad I am at it (I usually fine a rest of some kind when I'm hunting).

I shot two groups at 100 yards with a Triggerstick tripod standing. All shots easily within the 6" circle (again, I didn't measure because I was only counting hits vs misses for this exercise). A little bit of support goes a long way.

I shot four groups at 200 yards seated off the yoke of my pack. Three of the four groups were kept within 6" at that range but I had a flier on one where I anticipated the shot and jerked the trigger. It was a called flier, but it also could have been a wounded animal. Probably still a vital hit on an elk but not on a deer. I need to practice some more. I did end the session having a field day on 4" gongs at 200 yards off the pack, which made me feel better. As someone else mentioned above, I too seem to shoot better at a tangible object than I do at just paper. I think it helps me time the trigger break a bit better when I'm dealing with any kind of wobble.

To get beyond 200 yards, I have to go prone, either off my pack or a bipod.

 

[.308 Norma]

There are a lot of very good posts in this thread. Also like said, it seems your wife is shooting better than a lot of hunters who have been doing it for many years.

My wife using a couple of convenient "good posts" for shooting ground squirrels last spring.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I'll chime in with what I shot at the range on Sunday. I've been practicing field shooting positions getting ready for hunting season and trying not to shoot from a bench. Disclaimer: I am way worse at shooting unsupported offhand than I have any right to be. That's why I'm practicing. It's also why I use a rest whenever possible; a little bit helps a lot. I was shooting at 6" targets and only counting hits vs. misses.

I shot three groups at 100 yards unsupported offhand. I was only able to keep all of the shots from one group within 6 inches. The other two groups spread out to 8 inches or maybe a bit more (I didn't measure because all that mattered was it was a miss). Unless my continued practice yields substantial improvement, I'm not shooting offhand unsupported past 50ish yards this year. I hadn't practiced offhand unsupported shooting in several years and was shocked to learn how bad I am at it (I usually fine a rest of some kind when I'm hunting).

I shot two groups at 100 yards with a Triggerstick tripod standing. All shots easily within the 6" circle (again, I didn't measure because I was only counting hits vs misses for this exercise). A little bit of support goes a long way.

I shot four groups at 200 yards seated off the yoke of my pack. Three of the four groups were kept within 6" at that range but I had a flier on one where I anticipated the shot and jerked the trigger. It was a called flier, but it also could have been a wounded animal. Probably still a vital hit on an elk but not on a deer. I need to practice some more. I did end the session having a field day on 4" gongs at 200 yards off the pack, which made me feel better. As someone else mentioned above, I too seem to shoot better at a tangible object than I do at just paper. I think it helps me time the trigger break a bit better when I'm dealing with any kind of wobble.

To get beyond 200 yards, I have to go prone, either off my pack or a bipod.

Those trigger sticks are a serious help. I bought one for my brother.
What helps my offhand shooting the most is holding a weight at arms length for 1 minute. Rest 30 seconds and repeat for 3 sets.
You would be surprised how light the weight has to be initially. Use light enough weight to be stabile.

 

[sage5907]

Probably the worst thing a person can do when trying to shoot an animal offhand is to aim at the animal and say to yourself "there it is" and quickly pull the trigger because you are almost guaranteed a bad result. At 100 yards firing a 10 shot group I have to work hard to keep all of my shots on a paper plate and although most will be in a 5 inch group in the center of the plate I will invariably drop some into a larger group. In practice I have learned to accept this and it's all about controlling the trigger. When hunting I have taught myself to aim at the target and mentally "bare down" and make the shot. I think every successful hunter through experience has learned to "bare down." One of my biggest whitetail bucks was taken offhand at about 200 yards and to this day I am in awe that I made that shot!