"Accidental Discharge" in area school

[Sportcat]

http://www.thecarolinachannel.com/news/4478604/detail.html

Officer's Weapon Accidentally Discharges In Anderson County School
Two Students Get Minor Cuts From Debris

POSTED: 6:26 pm EDT May 11, 2005
UPDATED: 11:02 pm EDT May 11, 2005

ANDERSON COUNTY, S.C. -- An Anderson County school resource officer's gun accidentally discharged Wednesday morning.

Anderson County chief deputy Tim Busha said it all started when students asked school resource officer Robert Miller how his holster works.

Busha said during the demonstration, Miller was trying to explain to the students that the holsters are so secure that no one could take an officer's gun. At that point, Miller told a student to try and take the gun out, said Busha.

The student tried and the gun went off.

The gun never left the holster, said Busha.

"Accidentally discharged in his holster," said Busha. "The projectile went into the floor. Fortunately no one was injured or required medical treatment."

In a written statement, District Five superintendent Betty Bagley said "Two students received minor scratches from debris that flew up from the impact of the shot. We regret this most serious breach of protocol by the officer and we are grateful that no student or adult was injured by the bullet. We will work with the sheriff's office to help ensure that this sort of breach does not occur again."

Busha said the role of the school resource officer is more than just to provide protection for the school.

"They're also there to build provide a way for children to better understand what law enforcement does is an educational component that school resource officers do," said Busha.

Miller has been placed on administrative leave.

 

[Catuela]

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

I can't even think of comment for this.


If he wanted to show the kid how his holster works thats fine. But telling the kid to try to take his gun in the first place....

 

[shermacman]

"School resource officer"
I know I am older than dirt, I know the Earth was covered with ice when I went to school. But would someone please tell me what a "school resource officer" is?
Never mind that this particular "school resource officer" is an idiot, why would he need to be armed? And what does he do all day other than play with things in his holster?

 

[whm1974]

He should have used a fake gun or an airsoft for this.

-Bill

 

[TheDutchman]

Bet it was a Glock

 

[mrhuckins]

I believe that a "school resource officer" is an off duty officer that is being paid by the school to be able to stop/deter Columbine type situations and other infractiosn of the law from happening. The reason LEO's are used for this and not security guards, as I understand it, is because LEO's can wear their police uniforms and carry their guns, whereas security guards are not allowed to carry firearms in a school zone.

 

[Model520Fan]

I wonder what the connection is between thinking that a policeman is a "school resource officer" and thinking that a loaded weapon is an educational tool for demonstrating weapon retention.

Between stupid school officials and stupid "school resource officers," it's a wonder that the students learn anything at all. Or do they?

 

[jobu07]

In New York State a School Resource Officer, or SRO, is an on-duty full-time state paid State Trooper who's shift is spent in a local highschool for part or all of the school day. He or she has an office in the building and are present to build a reporte with the students as well as provide an outlet for kids to "snitch" to. The officer is also there for security reasons as well.

For the first 3 years the program is implemented in any school, it is "free" to that school district and covered by state tax payers (easy to hide that tax you see). On the 4th year, if you wish to keep the Trooper in your school, the Board of Education, or BOE, can vote to retain the officer at a cost to district tax payers.

The officer is in uniform while in the school with a patrol car parked visibly in the school's parking lot. The officer's uniform includes an issue Glock 17 in a standard holster. There is no protocal for his sidearm to ever be unholstered or presented to anyone. An officer never gives up his gun period. Negligent discharges are very few and far between in the NYSP, however, they do happen. Proper training will help to prevent them. The only other preventative measure that can be taken is common sense.

This program has been active in New York for several years now and has been touted by many state officials as highly effective and a success; however, many critics cite this as wasteful government spending and un-neccessary.

 

[Powderman]

The student tried to take this guy's gun--and it went off?

Hm.

If this is any type of modern holster, such as a Safariland, Bianchi, Gould and Goodrich, or any other type of modern retention holster, how did it go off if the trigger guard was covered?

I think there is more to the story......

 

[Sportcat]

News this morning reported it was a .40 Glock because "they are safer and can be used immediately without a safety."

 

[Sportcat]

http://greenvilleonline.com/news/2005/05/11/2005051164293.htm



Student fires officer's gun in school
Posted Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 5:00 pm


By Patricia Newman
STAFF WRITER
[email protected]

An Anderson County Sheriff's Office deputy's gun discharged in a classroom at Lakeside Middle School, sending a bullet into the floor Wednesday and causing two students to be cut and scratched by flying debris, authorities said.
"We regret this most serious breach of protocol by the officer, and we are grateful that no student or adult was injured by the bullet," said District Five Superintendent Betty Bagley. "We will work with the Sheriff's Office to help ensure that this sort of breach does not occur again."

The gun was in the deputy's holster when it discharged, according to the school district statement.

Anderson County Sheriff David Crenshaw said the officer was talking to the students about how hard it would be to get an officer's gun when a female student managed to get a finger on the trigger and pulled it.

Two students received minor cuts from scratches from debris that flew up from the impact of the shot, according to statement released by the school district.

"Unfortunately there was a lapse in judgement in this situation," said Anderson County Chief Deputy Jim Busha.

Busha said school resource officers are commissioned deputy sheriffs who have a variety tasks including maintaining order in school.

They also develop a rapport with students so they can have a better understanding of how law enforcement works in the community, Busha said.

The officer was pulled from the school and replaced with another deputy, the district said.


Staff writer Anna Simon contributed to this report.

 

[Sportcat]

http://www.independentmail.com/and/news/article/0,1886,AND_8203_3770848,00.html


School officer's gun accidentally fired
By CHARMAINE SMITH
Anderson Independent-Mail
May 11, 2005

A Lakeside Middle School resource officer was placed on administrative leave Wednesday after his gun fired as he tried to demonstrate to students that his gun could not be pulled out of its holster.

The bullet shot into the floor of one of the school’s eighth-grade classrooms, sending debris flying and slightly injuring two students.

Anderson County Sheriff’s spokeswoman Susann Griffin said the shooting occurred about 8:45 a.m. in a demonstration to a "small group" of students. The school’s Web site identifies the school resource officer as Robert Miller.

"One of the students walked up to (the officer) and tried to pull the gun from the holster, and the student accidentally discharged the weapon," Ms. Griffin said, adding that the gun was fired while it was still secured in the holster.

The gun Mr. Miller was carrying was a .40-caliber, model 22 Glock handgun — a standard weapon for officers — and was in a triple retention duty holster, which uses three snaps to hold the gun in place. The holster is specially designed to stop someone from grabbing a weapon from an officer’s gun belt.

Unlike other guns, the Glock handgun has internal safety locks, which are automatically released when someone pulls on the trigger. The gun Mr. Miller was carrying requires 5.5 pounds of pressure on the trigger for it to fire.

Basic training and the Sheriff’s Office own policies tell officers not to let anyone touch their weapon and not to draw their weapon unless threatened.

"The gun is a tool, not a prop," she said.
Ms. Griffin said all school resource officers carry weapons as certified deputies, but resource officers must have additional training.
Mr. Miller has worked with the Anderson County Sheriff’s Office since November 1997. At the start of Sheriff David Crenshaw’s administration, Mr. Miller was selected to work as a school resource officer at the middle school located on S.C. 28 Bypass.
"The officer is a super nice guy," Ms. Griffin said. "But what he had was a serious lapse in judgment. I saw him today, and he was extremely remorseful. He loved those kids."
As soon as the incident was reported, Mr. Miller was removed from the school and another school resource officer was dispatched to continue work for the day, according to an Anderson School District 5 news release.

"We regret this most serious breach of protocol by the officer, and we are grateful that no student or adult was injured by the bullet," District 5 Superintendent Betty Bagley said in the statement. "Student safety is our most important responsibility. We will work with the Sheriff’s Office to help ensure that this sort of breach does not occur again."

The incident stirred anger and concern among area parents.

Claudia Speed, whose daughter is an eighth-grade student at Lakeside, said she immediately called the Sheriff’s Office when she heard about the gun being fired in a classroom.

She questioned the officer’s training and why the former Lakeside school resource officer, Tim Rice, was terminated.

"It is their responsibility to make sure (the officers) are trained to deal with any kind of situation, to protect themselves in a school situation," Ms. Speed said. "Horseplay with an officer who is armed is extremely dangerous and should never be allowed."

Charmaine Smith can be reached at (864) 260-1269 or by e-mail at [email protected].

 

[Tory]

What's Austrian for ND?

GLOCK!

"Unlike other guns, the Glock handgun has internal safety locks, which are automatically released when someone pulls on the trigger."

Then they're not providing much safety.........

 

[Master Blaster]

The officer should have never allowed a student to touch his loaded firearm, whether it was in a holster or not.

What kind or retention holster does not completely cover the trigger and the trigger guard??????????

There is a serious problem with the holster design if a finger could be inserted and the trigger pulled while it was still in the holster.

 

[ScottsGT]

My kids are in an elementary school where they have had the same Resource Officer for years now. 8 or 9 that I know of. She is an older "Grandmother" type. All I can think of is if the SHTF at the school, will she be able to handle it. Kind of like the situation with the lady escorting the inmate that shot and killed her then shot the judge two months back.
On a bright note, she pushes the NRA safety course to the kids as Eddie Eagle does. My 6 year old in kindergarten came home telling me about the
"Magic Bullet" that stays in the gun, even after some people think they have unloaded it by removing the magazine. She went on to explain that it is magic you don't want to play with!
So all is not lost, they are teaching gun safety in my kids school, and not hammering the fact that all guns are bad.
But for the life of me, I cannot figure out how a holstered gun went off with the trigger covered.

 

[Powderman]

The gun Mr. Miller was carrying was a .40-caliber, model 22 Glock handgun — a standard weapon for officers — and was in a triple retention duty holster, which uses three snaps to hold the gun in place. The holster is specially designed to stop someone from grabbing a weapon from an officer’s gun belt.

I smell cow patties.

If a Glock handgun is secured in a retention holster--and I'm willing to bet it was either a Safariland 070 or a Raptor--it cannot be discharged while it is in the holster.

 

[centac]

The SRO concept dates back to the 1970's, if not informally earlier. The officer's role is multi-faceted and may include everything from DARE to functioning as a liason between the agency, school and students. From reading the article and seeing the agencies statement, the guy is in trouble. "We regret..." typically translates into "This officer's career is circling the drain and he'll be lucky to wind up in the parking meter repair shop."

Good to see a Glock slam surface. Guns that operate exactly like the DA revolvers we carried for 150 years have to be unsafe .

No gun is idiot - proof

 

[Aguila Blanca]

News this morning reported it was a .40 Glock because "they are safer and can be used immediately without a safety."

I guess it worked as designed, then. It fired so immediately it didn't even have time to leave the holster.

What do you want to bet the kids are smart enough to have scoped out exactly how the holster works? My guess is the pistol was halfway out of the holster when it went off.

 

[Tory]

Reality check

"Good to see a Glock slam surface. Guns that operate exactly like the DA revolvers we carried for 150 years have to be unsafe."

An egregiously disingenous comparison.

What double-action service revolver has only a 5.5# DA pull?

What double-action service revolver has that SHORT a trigger pull?

What double-action service revolver is partially-cocked at all times?

What double-action service revolver has been involved in as MANY ND's as Glocks have?


I look forward to your list....

 

[MechAg94]

I guess the question in my mind (among others) is why he had a bullet in the chamber for school duty? It is probably normal for him, but still. I guess I am curious if he thinks a quick draw without racking the slide is necessary.

 

[mrhuckins]

Of an interesting side note here is that of the three articles that are mentioned in this thread, each has its own "spin" on what acutally occured. Without reading all three articles about what happened, its hard to piece together what really happened. And as many of you have pointed out, there still seems to be a piece of the story missing. Just keep that in mind when reading something the media reports to you, before you make a judgment call about what really happened.

IE, a good rule of thumb is take everything the media reports to you with a grain of salt, and then assume that you still don't have all the facts.

 

[centac]

Yes, a quick draw without racking the slide is necessary. No one in domestic law enforcement is gonna wander around in Condition 3. The fact that he (was) assigned SRO duties is moot, as any number of school shootings would indicate.

Glocks do exactly what they are designed to do, fire when the trigger is pressed. The fact that some people are dimwits who cannot keep their finger off the trigger until their sights are on target and they have made the concious decision to fire is their fault, not the gun's. The gun works perfectly. People who are careless will have negigent discharges
regardless of the gun.

I never said Glocks were identical to DA revolvers, I said they operated identically to DA revolvers. All the points cited with the exception of the last may very well explain why transitional score increase with the Glocks over the DA revolvers with their long heavy trigger presses. Glocks are easier to shoot than DA revolvers - for some people that's a problem, for many its a blessing.

Anyway, the gun didnt shoot itself. The only part of the mechanism that failed was the nut behind the butt.

 

[Evil_Ed]

"I'm the only one in this room professional enought hat I know of to carry this glock .40."

Can't beleive no one quoted that yet.


Stupid, on many different levels. Never let someone touch your gun and certainly if you ar going to demonstrate firearms safety to children it needs to be with an unloaded weapon in a controlled environment (preferably with an airsoft or a dummy gun to reduce risks).

 

[MechAg94]

Good point centac. Judging by the first article, it was his decision to experiment with his gun/holster and also not unload it that caused the incident.

 

[El Tejon]

We need to make a list of all these po-po NDs and keep them handy next time we hear a soccermommie bleat about how "only the police, who are highly-trained, are competent enough to carry guns." Just e-mail the po-po file to her.

What I would like to see is a comparison of ND rates for licensed CCWers vs. LEOs. Who do you think there would come out the better on that?