"accidental discharge"- need help figuring what went wrong

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From personal experience I can tell you that the loud boom and subsequent adrenaline rush probably makes the whole incident rather fuzzy in his mind. Bottom line, visitors, even family, should not be handling loaded firearms. He should have asked to check it out and you could have unloaded it and trained him on the specifics of the firearm. No need to get angry, just put it away when not in use or on your person, and tell your brother that he should not have messed with it and that you both could use this opportunity to improve safety. Nothing like a loud wake up call to remind us all about the dangers of complacency around firearms. Thank you for posting ;)
 
I'm a little bit confused about what you are referring to as the hammer's "resting position." That's a DAO pistol, right? The resting position of the hammer is down. There's nowhere left to fall to from there. It requires the action of the trigger to bring it back to a point from where it could fall.

If you're thinking that the hammer somehow got stuck in the rearward position, that might explain it, but the only time I have ever seen anything like that was with a DA/SA pistol that would not go fully into battery if you rode the slide forward. It would stop just ever-so-slightly short of being in battery, and the hammer would still be back. Any slight bump would cause the slide to go into battery and the hammer to fall. However, this condition could only occur with the safety/decocker in the "safe" position, making a negligent discharge impossible. If you were "staging" the trigger and then didn't fire, I guess the hammer could have gotten stuck back, but that would indicate a severe problem with the pistol's innards, and you would have noticed that the hammer was back, I would think.

Your TCP is a DAO pistol with no safety and no decocker. I'm just guessing here, but the trigger pull might be around five or six pounds. Think about it: If you had a five-pound weight sitting on your desk, would you be able to move it about an inch by accidentally touching it with your finger?
 
A friend had an ND with a quality rifle of mine - twice. This is a target rifle with a 2# trigger, so not very forgiving of wandering fingers.

Each time he claimed it had gone off on its own.

Yet each time I saw him place his finger in the trigger guard as he shouldered the rifle. Friend claimed the rifle sear was defective, making this an AD rather than an ND.

In the first case he eventually admitted to 'brushing' the trigger. For the second ND, he swore his finger was nowhere near the trigger.

Oddly enough, thousands of rounds later, the rifle has yet to fire of its own free will.

Friend's response (sincere denial) is exactly what Tony_the_tiger and rc speak of.
 
Toivo- once you shoot the gun, or load it, basically if you didnt dry fire it, the hammer is set back a good bit from the firing pin. Granted, there is no slack in the trigger. Say if the hammer were 100% vertical as if it were touching the firing pin, call that 90 degrees. Where the hammer breaks is about 100% horizontal or 180 degrees. Besides dry firing it, the hammer rests 50/50 between these two points. I would never own a gun that i did not feel safe with. Any single action only pistol scares the beejezus out of me. I cannot see how 1911 owners carry their pistols cocked and locked, relying only on the manual safety with that light trigger pull,
 
Reefinmike said:
I cannot see how 1911 owners carry their pistols cocked and locked, relying only on the manual safety with that light trigger pull
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Been doing it daily for over a decade. Never had one go off yet.


It wasn't the gun. Face reality, your brother put his finger on the trigger and pulled it.


Even big brother can make mistakes.
 
Saxonpig- funny you bring that up, i meant to mention it earlier. I became very aware of bullet setback a month ago when i noticed visible differences in my hydrashoks. Now i have calipers and keep track of setback. Funny thing is, i have NEVER once in the three months of owning this pistol thrown a mag of carry ammo, racked the slide, and threw another in the mag. I always lock it open, dropmone down the tube, close it and throw a mag in. Still some setback. I would think if anything with the slide slamming down on thenround there wouldnbe "setfoward" from the foward momentum. That being said, i dedicate a new round as my in the tube round every two weeks, and only reload it maybe 5 timesmin that two week period.

That being said, im unsure of what the gunsmith said of the slightest movement setting off a primer is true. Sure im new here, but ive been deep in reloading for six months or so but ive done tonsmof reading. Researching how primers work, i could possibly see a old overworked primer sparking if it were racked into the chamber, but i could never imagine it going off by simply moving thencasing/gun that it resides in. If this were the case, you would think 60 year old surplus ammomshipped over here from russia and eastern europe would be a ticking timebomb
 
Bullfrog- i know, i just cant believe henpulled the extremely long, fairly heavy(yet buttery smooth :) ) trigger without removing it from the desk. Single action only and striker fire pistols still scare the poo out of me!
 
Reefinmike said:
Toivo- once you shoot the gun, or load it, basically if you didnt dry fire it, the hammer is set back a good bit from the firing pin. Granted, there is no slack in the trigger. Say if the hammer were 100% vertical as if it were touching the firing pin, call that 90 degrees. Where the hammer breaks is about 100% horizontal or 180 degrees. Besides dry firing it, the hammer rests 50/50 between these two points.
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Yep. The Taurus TCP is the KelTec design like shown in the video link here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIDoUu8lDGU

The light gray trigger bar does two things. It fully cocks the hammer and pulls the hammer catch ("sear" as Taurus calls it) forward out of the way of the hammer. The hammer catch is blue in the video and easier seen if the video is watched in full screen.

Like mentioned, if dry-fired or if a misfire is encountered the slide has to be cycled to return the hammer to half-cock which rests the hammer on the hammer catch.

The hammer could possibly fall from the hammer catch and possibly fire a round in the Taurus, but that would take something making the hammer catch move forward. Perhaps a forceful drop. The Taurus TCPs and the old KelTecs are known to occasionally fire a round if the trigger is short reset and the trigger is pulled allowing the hammer to fall from the half cock position.

Still, I know of this only happening if the trigger is pulled. The TCP does have a firing pin spring to resist the ammo from firing if the hammer were to drop from half cock.
 
Thanks for clearing that up chicharrones. Ive tried maybe fifteen timesmto "trick" it into firing from half cock without a full trigger reset. None were succesful. The hammer dropping somehow from half cock was the only way id think it could possibly fire in that situation given he supposedly barely touched the trigger none of it still makes sense, somehow he pulled that long heavy trigger all the way back without moving it from the desk...
 
Ever read "of mice and men"? Perhaps your brother doesn't know his own strength. You could always pawn the firearm, improve safety around the home, and eliminate both issues just for peace of mind.
 
Tony- no, i dont know what books are :p , but seriously, i pride myself in gun safety and am very embarresed this event occured. Im a 22 year old single guy and
This was the last thing i expected. Maybe a tray of primers going off, but not a boom inside! And id never pawn the gun, ive always trusted the gun, just cant believe it happened. Plus i got on my brothers case once when he pawned his ruger lc9 and my grandfathers double automatic browning shotgun
 
I agree it can be embarrassing, but the main thing is all of us can use the event to improve safety for the price of some spackle.
 
To set the stage- my brother knows very well proper gun safety(so i thought), how to load, unload and operate any firearm.
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That's quite a feat in itself. I find unfamiliar guns may have all kinds of buttons and levers that need some 'splain'n before I'm comfortable with them. For instance, I've never shot an AK so I have no idea if the lever on the side is supposed to be up or down to make it work.

Tony- no, i dont know what books are :p , but seriously, i pride myself in gun safety and am very embarresed this event occured.
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You should be. It seems to me that if it hadn't been your brother, you would have eventually had the ND. You seem to have a nonchalant attitude about firearm safety. A striker fired or 1911 type gun "scares the poop" out of you, but you don't mind leaving loaded guns laying around haphazardly? Just my humble opinion, of course.

My thoughts may be tempered from experiences with my sons who are around your age (older and younger). And I can state from my own life experiences the feelings of invincibility and the thought you'll never make a mistake diminishes with time...
 
I had a co-worker that had 2 ND's with 2 different guns. A milsurp 1911 and a Luger. Claimed both were AD's. I argued that if he pulled the trigger they were ND's. He didn't like that I called him on it. I had to restate the obvious several times. Unsafe and intractible are deadly if combined in one person.
Joe
 
It would be unusual to accidentally pull a DA trigger. Not impossible, maybe, but very weird to unknowingly pull a 7-10 pound trigger pull and not realize it.

A mechanical malfunction, with the hammer hung up partially cocked is also possible, maybe. So is the theory of a sensitive primer. Anything is possible.

I dunno. May remain a mystery. Always be careful.
 
I agree with Tony the Tiger and 788: There is no such thing as a gun "just going off" or "accidental discharge." There is only "accidental pulling of trigger." Just go to the range and shoot the gun to check it out and regain confidence, sure, but your brother pulled the trigger before clearing the gun. VERY simple. I also have been reloading for 20 years and I don't buy the sensitive primer theory the gun smith told another member earlier in the thread.

Not to keep going but this is a pat peeve. If you think about it, "accidental discharge" (which you read or hear in every legal case with guns involved) by definition means a gun can sit loaded for weeks months years then just go off. Can't happen.

Anyway, I am not trying to be brusque, this is your brother we are talking about, but he'll need some "awareness training."
 
Yes, i believe what you guys are saying, but i dont want to believe that someone who knows guns would just pull the trigger.
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Maybe he dropped the mag to see how the trigger is and spaced ejecting the round in the chamber?
People really don't just pull the trigger. Every time I do, I mean to do it, and of there ever is a round left in the chamber I didn't magically not mean to pull the trigger ... I mean to pull the trigger, I just didn't mean to leave a round in the chamber at that time.

We're all human and errors will be made when we do something. The more often we do it, the more likely it'll happen.

Glad that nothing too bad happened. 8)
 
Reefinmike
Onward- what if, if if if- somehow the hammer dropped from its resting position and hit hard enough to set it off? As i said, it was a lighter strike on the primer, however the dimple may have been pushed back out since he obviously wasnt gripping it and "limp wristed" it
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If that was the case, then I would have some serious concerns with the pistol. That would mean it went off half cocked or the cycling of the slide to load the chamber from the mag brought the hammer to full cock and had the hammer stay in that position. That is not how the TCP is suppose to operate!

If I recall correctly, I think you're able to see the hammer when you're pulling the trigger, though you would have to shine a flashlight on the back of the slide. After you rack the slide (ON AN EMPTY GUN), shine a light on the back as you slowly pull the trigger, you will see the hammer move back to full cock position. You will see what I am referring to...

Seriously, if your brother swears up and down on a stack of bibles that he didn't pull the trigger, I would send it back to the Taurus factory to have them take a closer look. I would not feel comfortable carrying a pistol that went off half cocked or have a racking of the slide bring it to full cock when the pistol wasn't designed to do so.
 
SaxonPig said:
Question: Are you in the habit of chambering and unloading the same round over and over as you load and then clear the pistol? I once had a 45 1911 go bang for no apparent reason. The smith said that the primer can become sensitive from being loaded and the slide dropped repeatedly to the point where the slightest bump can make it fire.
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SaxonPig, You believed that explanation?!!!
 
A day later, i think the final verdict is that he saw qn empty mag sitting right next to the gun, had a severe lapse in judgement and pulled the darn thing back an inch. What makes it odd is that it was done without removing the gun from the desk.

Onward- yes, you can clearly see the hammer, no need for a flash light- one of the reasons i bought the gun. I like to visually see the hammer.
 
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