Accuracy..

[unwise11]

Does the barrel really matter for 3 shot groups?
I can't get the same accuracy you guys show with my Howa sporter barrel .308, free floated hogue stock, and Nikko Stirling Gameking 3.5-10x44. I have shot SOME sub-minute groups. not usually.
Is it my gun?
me?
the loads?
How do I figure it out.
My average 100 yard group is about 1.5-2"
sometimes under. not usually over if I do my job.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

It could be any or all of those things...

You figure it out by experimenting with different loads.

 

[blackops]

Like 99 percent of people, it's a combination of everything (you, rifle, load,). Do you reload? If not, buy three different boxes, get some sand bags, and take your time with EVERY SINGLE shot. Take 4 or 5 shots. This will show the true difference to each ammo and your rifle's true potential. Once you have identified the best diet for your rifle, you then can begin dissecting your personal habits. If you can't seem to work out your personal flaws then get a gun vise and you can really figure out what your rifle can do.

I'll just go ahead and tell you now, this will be a never ending process and not a race, but a marathon. If you're like me and have OCD with accuracy, start reloading.

If you do reload, what are you typically experimenting with?

 

[taliv]

Jd I'd say your average is a lot better than most peoples'. But most people only post their best group not their average.

You may be able to get tighter groups with some instruction or by changing ammo. But those groups are pretty good for most factory guns especially sporter types

 

[unwise11]

I wish I'd of gotten a target rifle.
but oh well.
I don't reload.
But I do buy the best.
I typically use Hornady 168 grain A-max
I tried 165 gr BTSP today.
I wan't to reload soon. and I have no instuctor. My dad hates my gun. kicks.. loud.. ect. he likes his .223

 

[taliv]

hey, christmas is coming up...

 

[justgoto]

If your barrel is damaged in some way that inhibits accuracy, then yes it matters; if not, not so much.

I have a US model of 1917 Eddystone 30-06; the barrel is eroded badly from being shot so much. When I mounted a scope on it for load development; after load development, I got a .75 inch 3 shot group at 100 yards.

With my Win94 30-30 after load development I got a 1.5" 3 shot group at 300 yards.

In my experience, the right load will make a rifle without severe accuracy issues shoot well.

I also have a Howa 1500, my rifle gets .3 inch 100 yard 3 shot groups. So I would think your rifle should get about the same accuracy. My advice would be to try different ammo, or redevelop your load from the bottom up... That is if you are sure you are doing everything right and your rifle is in good working order.

 

[unwise11]

Yeah, I wish. got my thing early. Membership to a super nice gun club I can go to 7 days a week. rifle, pistol, clays, and I work there sundays.
If I get anything then It'll be cash. which I'll use for a 700sps varmint. or the like.
anyway. heres my better groups from recently.
the gun.

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100 yard groups.

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200 yard groups.

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Yes I know I cut some of them. I used some targets for zeroing. and cut the sections I wanted to keeep. overall. no cheating.

 

[BrocLuno]

Looks good for factory ammo and a stock gun More practice and sneak in some match ammo when youc an

 

[unwise11]

all of that is match ammo except remington.
For you who Don't Know I'm 14. yeah. a kid with guns. in these days.
I'd be the last to shoot at my school.
my dad says I act in my 20's.

 

[FlyinBryan]

you dont need an instructor for reloading!!!! (and thats not bad shooting)

and usually handloads will instantly be more accurate (provided you use cases fireformed in your rifle)

you just need the book "abc's of reloading, and spend some time in the reloading forum of this website.

 

[AR27]

I think its you future army ranger, i have read alot of your posts about your howa and asking about accuracy, but then again its a hunting rifle, you shouldnt expect sub moa out of that rifle.

ps try not to devolp bad habbits from shooting to much, the best shooters in qualification are the ones who have never fired a rifle before, they learn only the "correct" way to shoot. I know you want to be a sniper and in the usmc at least you must qualify expert to even think of being a sniper. idk about army though. of course thier are exceptions to this though.

 

[DIM]

I had HOWA once, it was shooting groups like you have at 200 yards, but mine did it at 100 yards, I spend about a month and lots about 200 different loads I tried to developed for it, it still produced 3 - 3.5 moa at best. Your groups are not bad, just remember do not overheat thin sporter barrel. Also HOWA recommends break in for their barrels, they state it will improve accuracy if you do it, they have steps which I found a bit awkward when cleaning barrel with windex
recommendations: try to do some bore-lapping either with KG-2 bore polish or J-B Bore Bright see if it improves your groups...

 

[bubbinator]

JDMorris- Your gun scope combo is a quality rig. For a 14 yr. old you do seem very mature and BTW welcome to the shooting community. I am 62, and since my dad died when I was 9, you are lucky again. I was pretty much self taught and in the military at 17. Reloading in very easy and rewarding I highly recommend a book called "Pet Loads- Complete Volume" by Ken Waters. It has almost 1200 pages documenting a very well educated and equipped handloaders life experience with everything reloadable in this world. MidSouth Shooters and/or Midway have it for $45. A Reloading Manual will set you back almost that much and doesn't have a 1/10th of the info the Ken Waters book has. All the powder burn rates and other details are available on the internet free. Have you tried lighter bullets in your Howa? I have a WWII German Mauser sporterized into .30-06 that shoots 130gr. Speer JHPs at 3100 fps into a 5/8th inch group all day long looking thru a Tasco 3x9x40 rested on a truck hood! Your rig is a world away better. I worked up that load back in 1971, in fact that is the very first deer rifle I ever bought and it had no name Jap scope that the reticle moved inside the sight picture when you adjusted it! Turn it too far and itwas in the edge of the sight picture! Hang in there with your Dad too, the last 10 deer I killed were with a .222, .243 and a .260 Rem! It is now more finesse than smackdown!

 

[Skylerbone]

JD, I've harshed you for that Howa before but truthfully they're quite solid shooters. You can tune the rifle to a particular load with varied results; everything from a deresonator to a chop and recrown. Without reloading you cannot tune the ammo to the rifle with true precision. That is not to say something won't be close but if accuracy is the end game you seem to understand 1/4" is the difference between good enough for most and not what you want.

Barrel vibration must be worked out, logs must be kept on conditions and trigger time must be put in for everythingto come together. It's more than good glass or heavy barrels, everything helps or hurts.

For the price of a different rifle money well spent would go toward the following:

Steel mounts and rings, no scope will perform well without solid attachment.

A deresonator, whether a simple Simms or BOSS style modification (start cheap).

A single stage press, good dies to include neck sizer and some loading time with members of your club.

Find a stock that fits you and the type of shooting you do. Have a look at Stocky's and see what's available, better yet give them a call and ask for suggestions. You'll still have the original if the situation calls for it.

Get a solid rest. It need not be a Ransom but it does need to be sound.

These are some suggestions, you must determine where your money is best spent. New trigger or trigger job? You may wish to start with reading a few books on long range shooting or shooting for accuracy, they may help you determine where best to invest.

Good luck and good shooting young man.

 

[unwise11]

Thanks. My dad is more of a close range guy. He reffers to what I do as "Sniper S$%".
he like pistols alot more.
I want a reloading kit. just need some other stuff first.
To the guy with the Howa. I never broke it in. I clean it after I shoot. thats it.
As far as a hunting rifle goes it's good.
I will definitely get a target barrel or rifle soon.
I might get a new stock for this gun, seems like it would be fun to accurize, Proving a sporter can drive tacks.
But I'd rather get a T/C encore in .223 or a Remington SPS varmint in .223

 

[unwise11]

I argued with Justgoto on youtube for a while. I can be an A$% sometimes, but I owe him an apology, I thought he was another idiot youtube guy.
apparantly not.
I've seen hid videoes of his Howa in 30-06
AKA TEHLEGITGUY..
who he should unblock.

 

[DIM]

yes, get them both, I got them myself TC ICON in .308 and REM 700 SPS varmint in .223 after I got rid of that howa both rifles shoot bug-holes all day long

 

[coloradokevin]

Accuracy..

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does the barrel really matter for 3 shot groups?
I can't get the same accuracy you guys show with my Howa sporter barrel .308, free floated hogue stock, and Nikko Stirling Gameking 3.5-10x44. I have shot SOME sub-minute groups. not usually.
Is it my gun?
me?
the loads?
How do I figure it out.
My average 100 yard group is about 1.5-2"
sometimes under. not usually over if I do my job.

JD,

In my opinion you should try to control as many variables as you possibly can if you want to figure out what factors are contributing to your groups:

1) Is it you?

Well, can you find an experienced precision rifle shooter to take a few shots with your gun, just to see how it works for them? This isn't scientific, but might tell you something. Also, do you have any sort of quality bench rest to shoot from? If not, how about setting up a solid sandbag rest? Do what you can to eliminate shooter error, and you'll come a lot closer to determining what your rifle can actually do!

2) Is it your ammo?

All else being equal, have you tried different brands/bullet weights in your rifle? Hornady A-max is good, but there are other equally reasonable choices (Federal GMM, etc). What about giving some more serious thought to reloading? I know you are a young kid, but reloading still might be a viable option as long as you approach it from a mature and cautious point-of-view. Lee Precision makes some very economical and very usable reloading kits, for a young guy who is just starting out like yourself.

 

[DRYHUMOR]

Look at it this way, as a hunting rifle; it shoots well. With the right ammo/load it would shoot better.

Until you reach the point of reloading, use what you've got to your advantage. Work on your technique.

Cheek weld, breathing, and trigger pull. I'm guessing you could tighten up your groups a bit just by working on those. Consistency is the most important thing to work on.

For a real eye opener, create a target(s) for running groups. Pick a number 30, 50, 100, whatever. Shoot that many rounds into it using the same ammo. Over time the average size of the groups will shrink down as your technique improves.

Don't get too hung up on 3 or 5 shoot groups.... a bad day, a little caffiene or sugar, can make or break a 3 or 5 rd group.

 

[ole farmerbuck]

Jd I'd say your average is a lot better than most peoples'. But most people only post their best group not their average.

Thats right!! I shot 2 - 3 shot groups yesterday but i'm only going to show you one. Featherweight barrel.

 

[JDGray]

JD,
Whatever you did to shoot that first group, do it everytime!! It takes time to build your skills, and since you don't reload, lots of money for the factory ammo. My Savage 10FP will shoot Fed GMM ammo to about 3" at 200yrds, but throw in my handloads, and the groups shrink down to 1" Repeatability is the key! If you can hold a .75" group at 100yrds, with factory ammo, I'd say your off to a good start Work on consistancy of your cheekweld, shoulder pressure, breathing, you get the picture......

 

[Uncle Mike]

I can't get the same accuracy you guys show with my Howa sporter barrel .308, free floated hogue stock, and Nikko Stirling Gameking 3.5-10x44. I have shot SOME sub-minute groups. not usually.

So what's the problem, what your experiencing is NORMAL for MOST production rifles!

We shoot rifles almost every day, controled conditions and usually off bags or from a machine rest if the stock will fit in that old pos rest, but anyway, remember the rules...

First, we do not take to heart 'everything' we see or hear on the net, yes, even on forums!

And second, there are very few moderately priced, such as your Howa, that will one hole, time after time!

And third, like Taliv said, most all groups you'll see on-line will be the BEST of the rest, that was shot that day, not the 'average'.

If your getting ANY sub MOA groups, and the rest of the time your groups are within 'your' comfort zone, as to group size, buddy, you have the worlds best shooting rifle, right in your hands!

1.5" to 2" is about what a Howa will do(handloads excluded), there will always be the exception, we had one(Howa) through the shop the other day that was a solid .7" shooter(Federal Gold Medal Match), but those type of rifles from Howa, or ANY production manufacturer is a rarity, concerning a 22" or 24" sporter barreled, non bedded, normally produced rifle.

I think your doing just about as good as you can, under the circumstances, try different ammo, one is bound to do a tad better than the other, check and torque the action screws to 40 INCH pounds(Hogue stock), make sure you have no stock contact in the barrel barrel channel, try some handloads, got a good, clean barrel, concentrate of 'your' end of the shooting equation, you may wring some tighter groups out of your Howa on the average!

 

[hardluk1]

jdmorris Does that stock have a aluminum bedding block in it? If not take the pod off and shoot over a bag with the support farther back on the stock. Try not to to place any extra pressure on the rifle and try some nosler ballistic tips in a 150gr wieght just to try a different wieght class of bullets. Most new barrels do tend to shoot better when you follow the break in directions. If none are with your rifle check out Kreigers beark in . Can take all day to shoot a box but worth it. Thin barrels don't like quickly fired shoots also. Like covered ,if your getting any sub MOA groups it's in the gun to do it. A good trigger pull and a desent stock with some bedding may make a big change. Just shoot slowly with time between shots so that barrel does not heat up.

 

[unwise11]

Wow, alot of great helpful answers. I don't know if you remember but I was the guy who posted the Howa ALL OVER a 10" target. and know I'm down to a 3" target..
The stock is pillar bedded and that bipod has a "cant" so i never use it. I have a 9" bipod too big for bench shooting.
I will take a picture of how I usually set up.
I cant get good cheek weld because the scope rail, and I dont have a cheeck piece, I sorta get it, but cant drop my head on the stock and see through the scope.
Today after work I'm going to Dicks to buy some camo, and look at a lead sled or somthing.
My dad says I jerk my head back when the gun goes off, I think He's wrong now. Yesterday he fell asleep while I was shooting 200yd. the only one at the range.
The range does have benchrests. but I need better bags. Unfortunately I would be making them at home. and having to not use sand...
very odd. rice? Idk.
The gun has never been fired by anyone but me, my mom, my dad and me grandfather.
So no experienced shooters yet.
I have been known in my family as a crackshot with my .22's
I want that with a .308..
I can't sell the gun, it was a gift. and in my family you can not sell a gun. ever.
my options are... waste more money on ammo
try a new shooter..
reload..
or buy a new stock. Bell and carlson tactical whatever. fits heavy barrels for later date.