horsemen61
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Ok guys here is my question What factors do you use to decide wether or not a load is accurate I am mostly referring to pistol loads here.
Accuracy?
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Certaindeaf
member
Probably distance and one of those measuring sticks.
Yarddog
Member
Exactly ; )
Since you are refering to pistol load I will assume you mean for self defense. And if that is the case type of gun and size of barrel will affect accuracy more then any load will. Same load in three different style and type of guns will more then likely give you three different patterns.
loose noose
Member
Most defense shootings occur within 7 yards, if you can empty a complete cylinder or magazine in the thoracic cavity of a man size silhouette, with reloads ya done good.:
mljdeckard
Member
Nighthawk guarantees 1" @25 yards out of the box. My Kimber will do close to that off of a ransom rest. Either one is far more accurate than I am.
My pistol round "accuracy" test is basically go or no-go. I shoot in the mountains, so I pick a point (rock, trash, w/e) on a large backstop that is 100+ yards away. I take careful aim. If the dirt kicks up in a tight pattern, is good.
If there's a problem with a reload causing a bullet stability issue, it may show up on your 10-20 yard targets; and you might be satisfied there's a problem after measuring a few repeat groups. But at 100+ yards, you'll know right away. The shots will wander 30 feet off in random directions. You will know those things are keyholing even without a paper target.
If there's a problem with a reload causing a bullet stability issue, it may show up on your 10-20 yard targets; and you might be satisfied there's a problem after measuring a few repeat groups. But at 100+ yards, you'll know right away. The shots will wander 30 feet off in random directions. You will know those things are keyholing even without a paper target.
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LiveLife
Member
For me, "practical" shooting distance is less than 25 yards. The reference I use for factory semi-auto pistols offhand is about 1" shot groups at 7 yards, 2" at 10 yards and 3" at 15 yards center-to-center.
If I consistently average about 1" shot groups at 10 yards on multiple range sessions, I consider that load accurate. If I can average about 1" shot groups at 15 yards, I consider that load very accurate.
If I consistently average about 1" shot groups at 10 yards on multiple range sessions, I consider that load accurate. If I can average about 1" shot groups at 15 yards, I consider that load very accurate.
CountryUgly
Member
totally depends on which gun but as a general rule of thumb I call them good if they pass the "Redneck Accuracy Test" hitting a Skoal can 3 out 5 times at 50 or so steps.... that ought to be more than accurate enough to anything I'll ever ask of the gun or bullet..
rfwobbly
Member
I have one 9mm pistol where accuracy matters a lot. To make testing between different bullet/powder combinations easily compared across all loads, I place the same target (a 2" dia black bullseye) at the exact same distance (about 35 feet) for all testing. Then I measure the results with a caliper. I keep the better targets, which are marked with the load info in the corner.
I don't have a Radsom rest, so I use the sandbag technique, and I always shoot only 8 rounds. This gives me an easy way to compare all the hundreds of load combinations I've tried over the last several years.
I don't have a Radsom rest, so I use the sandbag technique, and I always shoot only 8 rounds. This gives me an easy way to compare all the hundreds of load combinations I've tried over the last several years.
horsemen61
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Thanks for the advice guys, I have learned a lot and no this isn't just a defense load thing it is about all of my pistol reloads. See my reloading mentor doesn't load a lot of pistol ammo so I wasn't real sure on a good way to figure up accuracy with a pistol. I've heard anything from shoot a 7 yards its all you will ever need in a gunfight to shoot at 100 yards what is a good middle ground to start with I'm thinking a pie plate at 25 yards seems normal whatya say folks.
KansasSasquatch
Member
If you can hit an 8" pie plate with every round at 25 yards, that's plenty good for a defensive load, especially if you can do it FAST. But if I'm really testing for "target" accuracy I shoot at 10 and 15 yards, both standing using 2 hands and sitting resting the pistol on a shooting/sand bag. If I can keep every round inside a 3" circle at 15 yards standing it should be a good plinking load. If I can keep every round inside a 2" circle resting on a sandbag at 15" yards, it's a load I would use for competition.
So far I've been able to find a competition worthy load in .45acp with Red Dot, True Blue, Unique, W231, Bullseye, Longshot, and 800X (but I'll never use it again). That's every pistol powder I've ever bought. I have a .38spl load straight out of the Lee manual using Red Dot that I can hit a 1ft square target 80% of the time at 100 yards out of a 4" GP100. I love that load/gun combo....and it's a powderpuff load too.
Accuracy is being able to consistently produce the same results within a given set of parameters. You have to define your own parameters. Do you need loads that will have every hole touching at 25yards? Or would a 6" spread at that distance work for you? Define your parameters and find a load that consistently performs within them.
So far I've been able to find a competition worthy load in .45acp with Red Dot, True Blue, Unique, W231, Bullseye, Longshot, and 800X (but I'll never use it again). That's every pistol powder I've ever bought. I have a .38spl load straight out of the Lee manual using Red Dot that I can hit a 1ft square target 80% of the time at 100 yards out of a 4" GP100. I love that load/gun combo....and it's a powderpuff load too.
Accuracy is being able to consistently produce the same results within a given set of parameters. You have to define your own parameters. Do you need loads that will have every hole touching at 25yards? Or would a 6" spread at that distance work for you? Define your parameters and find a load that consistently performs within them.
Grumulkin
Member
The best accuracy guarantee for pistols I've seen is that given by Les Bauer. Their 1911 pistols are guaranteed to shoot 3 inch groups at 50 yards and, if you are willing to pay more, you can get one guaranteed to shoot 1.5 inch 50 yard groups. That will give you an idea of what optimal pistol accuracy is for a traditional pistol cartridge.
For scoped handguns like the Encore and Contender, accuracy potential is better. I have several barrels with which I've shot about 1.5 inch 200 yard 3 shot groups.
For scoped handguns like the Encore and Contender, accuracy potential is better. I have several barrels with which I've shot about 1.5 inch 200 yard 3 shot groups.
41 Mag
Member
I load for accuracy for my handguns regardless of caliber from the 38 SPL up through my 454. I hunt with them all from time to time, mostly feral hogs but others things as well.
My criteria is a bit more than most I guess and I also go a bit further with my trimming of cases and such. I don't go as far as to weigh them or the bullets for matched batches per say but I do demand a bit more from the end result.
It is simply something I got into the habit of years ago and it works for me. When I load, I usually load in batches of only 50-100, so trimming the cases and such isn't a big deal. If your cases aren;t the same you will never get equal crimps on the bullets which can and does equate to fliers.
I consider a 2" group standing with no rest and a two handed hold at 25yds to be sufficient, but most times will work on things until I can get them smaller. I will test and tweak loads until I get them where I want them and usually will stick with it. Here is one such test, as mentioned above at 25yds with my 454, using the same loads, bullets, and all, but only the lube being different. As you can see the one shot great, while the other simply spread out all over,
I have used this same load to drop an 80'ish pound hog trotting out across my back pasture at 87yds measured with my laser rangefinder. The 310gr cast RFN leaving at just over 1500fps, hit it so hard it literally flipped it over. I cannot ask for anything more, I did my part and the load did the rest. This type of shot isn't the norm, but if I need this sort of performance I expect to be able to use it.
Another couple of groups with my Redhawk in 45 Colt using two different loads and bullet weights, also two handed hold, standing, target at 25yds,
Further testing with both of these loads from this revolver has show these will stay together like this quite nicely out to 50 and 75yds which is about all one can ask for.
Once I can confirm that the loads are good, and consistent, I will start practicing out to 50 and sometimes 100yds, simply to better myself, but to also learn what the loads do. Most of my hunting shots are between 20 and 50yds to be honest, but at times on my farm, and also on my friends property where I do work, the hogs will come out of the woods or brush while we are out working. We do not hesitate to drop the hammer on them if they are within a reasonable range. We have both dropped several nice hogs out to and even past 100yds using our revolvers, but it takes practice and knowing your loads are capable of it.
While I don't have but a couple of auto loaders, the 10mm I have, and the load I use in it are very capable of cleanly dropping a decent sized how out to 50yds and I have used it plenty of times while stalking or when we used to chase hogs with dogs. With my 1911, while I don't consider it to be a hunting sidearm, I wouldn't hesitate to use it up close and personal if I had it on me when slipping through the thick brush where shots can be ranged in feet rather than yards. With some of my cast 200 and up bullets it is not only very accurate but with the RFN designed bullets, it hits hard and penetrates sufficiently for those type encounters. I would not however attempt anything over 20yds with it, as it simply doesn't carry the energy as well as the 10mm with it's 180gr Gold Dot load leaving out at 1350fps.
So as mentioned above you need to determine YOUR criteria, and match it with what you can or wish to accomplish. What you will likely find is that your handguns are far more capable of delivering accuracy than you are. I know mine will shoot better than I can for sure. I am definitely the week link in the chain.
My criteria is a bit more than most I guess and I also go a bit further with my trimming of cases and such. I don't go as far as to weigh them or the bullets for matched batches per say but I do demand a bit more from the end result.
It is simply something I got into the habit of years ago and it works for me. When I load, I usually load in batches of only 50-100, so trimming the cases and such isn't a big deal. If your cases aren;t the same you will never get equal crimps on the bullets which can and does equate to fliers.
I consider a 2" group standing with no rest and a two handed hold at 25yds to be sufficient, but most times will work on things until I can get them smaller. I will test and tweak loads until I get them where I want them and usually will stick with it. Here is one such test, as mentioned above at 25yds with my 454, using the same loads, bullets, and all, but only the lube being different. As you can see the one shot great, while the other simply spread out all over,
I have used this same load to drop an 80'ish pound hog trotting out across my back pasture at 87yds measured with my laser rangefinder. The 310gr cast RFN leaving at just over 1500fps, hit it so hard it literally flipped it over. I cannot ask for anything more, I did my part and the load did the rest. This type of shot isn't the norm, but if I need this sort of performance I expect to be able to use it.
Another couple of groups with my Redhawk in 45 Colt using two different loads and bullet weights, also two handed hold, standing, target at 25yds,
Further testing with both of these loads from this revolver has show these will stay together like this quite nicely out to 50 and 75yds which is about all one can ask for.
Once I can confirm that the loads are good, and consistent, I will start practicing out to 50 and sometimes 100yds, simply to better myself, but to also learn what the loads do. Most of my hunting shots are between 20 and 50yds to be honest, but at times on my farm, and also on my friends property where I do work, the hogs will come out of the woods or brush while we are out working. We do not hesitate to drop the hammer on them if they are within a reasonable range. We have both dropped several nice hogs out to and even past 100yds using our revolvers, but it takes practice and knowing your loads are capable of it.
While I don't have but a couple of auto loaders, the 10mm I have, and the load I use in it are very capable of cleanly dropping a decent sized how out to 50yds and I have used it plenty of times while stalking or when we used to chase hogs with dogs. With my 1911, while I don't consider it to be a hunting sidearm, I wouldn't hesitate to use it up close and personal if I had it on me when slipping through the thick brush where shots can be ranged in feet rather than yards. With some of my cast 200 and up bullets it is not only very accurate but with the RFN designed bullets, it hits hard and penetrates sufficiently for those type encounters. I would not however attempt anything over 20yds with it, as it simply doesn't carry the energy as well as the 10mm with it's 180gr Gold Dot load leaving out at 1350fps.
So as mentioned above you need to determine YOUR criteria, and match it with what you can or wish to accomplish. What you will likely find is that your handguns are far more capable of delivering accuracy than you are. I know mine will shoot better than I can for sure. I am definitely the week link in the chain.
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Hondo 60
Member
I think each of us has a different version of "accurate"
Mainly because we all have differing abilities when come to shooting.
My most accurate weapons are my S&W Model 10-5, & my Uberti 1873 Cattleman NM brass.
With the S&W, I can hit tiny shards of clay pigeon at 15 yards.
Whereas with my Tokarev, if I can keep it in a 4" group at 15 yards, I'm feelin pretty good.
Mainly because we all have differing abilities when come to shooting.
My most accurate weapons are my S&W Model 10-5, & my Uberti 1873 Cattleman NM brass.
With the S&W, I can hit tiny shards of clay pigeon at 15 yards.
Whereas with my Tokarev, if I can keep it in a 4" group at 15 yards, I'm feelin pretty good.
I load up a nice assortment of different powder charges and and shoot them off a sandbag at about 20 yds and compare group sizes. Usually doesn't take too long to pick out the best load. The groups will shrink or expand with each different powder charge.
I look for the smallest group with no pressure signs and good reliability.
I look for the smallest group with no pressure signs and good reliability.
jack44
Member
If I hit the center of the target at 25yds. more then 3 or 4 times.
38riverrat
Member
Hitting the Ace of Spades at 25 paces.
Best,
Rick
Best,
Rick
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