Accurizing the Mosin: Trigger Jobs and Bolt Flinch

[dubious]

My mosin has never shot well for me... something like 3" groups at 25 yards with a scope. I know it can do better. That's why I was so excited to lighten up the trigger. At first I tried shims under the sear spring... but now I bent it and it feels like is about 3 or 4 lbs (I'm going to make it a little less bent to prevent drop accidents). But when I dry fire it, the gun is all over the place. I have a new theory.

That ridiculously overbuilt bolt is snaps with such soviet authority that it is shaking the rifle in my hands before the primer ignites. Has anybody else noticed this problem? Has anyone tried lighter springs to improve accuracy?

 

[stubbicatt]

Actually, you might want to get a faster spring to reduce lock time.

 

[the rifleer]

In all honesty it sounds like your flinching. You just need to stop flinching. it can be hard to do, but once you stop your groups will shrink alot.

Even if you get the lock time a lot lower and shorten and lighten the trigger pull, your still going to have a larger group than you should because your still jerking the gun around.

 

[dubious]

Yes there is probably some flinching going on. But I've never had this problem with other guns... this giant bolt slamming excessively in my face scares me more than the recoil. I've shot PLENTY of rifles without this problem. Maybe if I somehow lightened the spring.... sigh

 

[NCsmitty]

In all honesty it sounds like your flinching.

I tend to agree with the rifleer's assessment. If fired with the original steel butt plate, a Mosin can punish you with some stout recoil. It's not uncommon to develop a flinch after firing a rifle that has a stiff recoil and report.

Unless the barrel is in bad shape and causing the lack of accuracy, maybe you can get someone else to shoot your rifle and confirm one way or another.

dubious, your theory about the bolt causing the problem is probably not valid at this point. You need to check the rifle for any reason to shoot badly, from the barrel, to the scope and it's mount being loose. And remember, not all ammo will shoot well in different rifles.




NCsmitty

 

[Quoheleth]

It's a MOSIN for pete's sake. 3" is something to right to Inga about! The one I had was minute-of-printer paper @ 50 yards.

Some are winners; some are losers. But, to paraphrase Governor Paylin said, put lipstick on a pig and you've still got a pig.

Q

 

[TomADC]

I shot my M38 for the first time today, the trigger must be 15 pounds or so (just guessing) it was a sort of spray and pray, I was at 50 yds, but with these old eye's and trigger I keep everything in the black but all over the place.
Its a fun carbine to shoot though, much louder I think then my 91/30.

 

[Geno]

Here's what the doctors ordered. For $94.95 you too can have a Timney:

http://timneytriggers.com/sunshop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=50

Here is their add:

Timney has been asking shooters and hunters, "What trigger would you like us to build next?" The response has been incredible and thanks to our customers, some awesome triggers have been built. The Mosin Nagant, our first “Customer’s Choice” trigger is now available for purchase. The Mosin-Nagant features a trigger blocking side safety, adjustable trigger pull weight – 1 ½ to 4 pounds with heat treated components assembled in a lightweight alloy housing.

Geno

 

[the rifleer]

I think a mosin trigger is about 9 pounds. Im actually very good with mine and can shoot a 2.5'' group at 100 yards with it. Don't diss the mosin just cause its made with a man's trigger. You just have to learn how to shoot it thats all... and once you can shoot well with a mosin you can shoot well with any gun in my opinion, unless its bigger and stronger than a mosin.

 

[Quoheleth]

If you drop $100 or so on a Mosin and then another $100 on a Timney trigger, plus whatever you have in the scope/rings setup, why not just save another month and buy something that'll be accurate out of the box - something by Marlin, Mossberg, Stevens, etc.?

I am always agog when people don't get revolvers or 1911s. I guess I'm in the group that doesn't get Mosins.

Q

 

[Cosmoline]

The bolt is not the issue. First off what kind of Mosin is it? Make, arsenal, year? What varieties of ammunition have you tried? Did you alter it in some way?

 

[Franco2shoot]

Cosmoline asks the right questions.
My 91/30 from a bench easily shoots cloverleafs at 100 yards. Different ammo puts the cloverleaf bullet holes up higher or down lower in most cases, but the pattern is always within a half inch of each other. Another variable is whether you shoot with the bayonet attached or not. When attached, my pattern dropped down and left but stayed just as tight. I do have an ATI scope mount and a hundred buck Wally world scope. I'm please with what I built, what it cost me and how it performs and that's the bottom line. What are you after?


KKKKFL

 

[dubious]

Hey guys, the bolt and my mind IS the issue for me. Cosmo I appreciate your questions about ammo, but this applies even to dryfiring... it's hard for me to keep the sites steady. My trigger is very very light right now... like 3 lbs. Yet the bolt slams so hard it makes me flinch before the shot goes off.

Yes I'm FLINCHING, but I don't have this problem with any other rifle. The reason I don't have this problem with other rifles is because they don't have such a massive overbuilt bolt slamming shut in my face. Yes, I will practice dryfiring with just me and the bolt and try to overcome it. I was just wondering if there is a way to reduce the bolt slam factor a little bit to help prevent my flinching.

For example... I can handle good dry firing with solid sights on a 5 lb trigger on most pistols. A 10 lb trigger pistol, I'm no good....I flinch. If I practiced all day then maybe I could improve. The situation is similar with the Mosin... but it's not the trigger itself that's causing me to flinch. It's the overpowered bolt. If nobody has any suggestions on this front, that's OK.

 

[rangerruck]

go here, and here; and look around
http://7.62x54r.net/
http://www.surplusrifle.com/russianmosin189130/index.asp

 

[car15bill]

the bolt on the mosin isn't that much bigger than a krag, it shouldn't pull your sights that much. you should barely see the bolt move, if at all, your eyes should be on the sights or target throughout the shot.

how are you pulling the trigger, with the tip of your finger or your first knuckle? where do you pull the trigger, on the bottom, with the most leverage, or the middle or top, where it will feel heavier?

have you been shooting offhand, or off a bench with rests/sandbags?

 

[Palehorseman]

I have been rather amazed at the accuracy of this little critter, Got it bubbarized from neighbor for 25 bucks. Put a cheap (10 bucks) yard sale BSA pistol scope on it, retrofitted a cheap (15 bucks) mount from Htown Imports and made a leather cheek riser for it.

With hard cast boolits it is a tack driver, (with milsurp, it is grass fires out to 10 yards and back flips off the bench) I did put a washer under the spring to reduce two stage trigger effect.

 

[grimjaw]

the bolt slams so hard it makes me flinch before the shot goes off

I never noticed the bolt travel on any of the Mosin Nagants I've fired, about five or six of them. The recoil and blast I noticed, but I dealt with that in two ways. I doubled up on hearing protection even outdoors. I put a slip-on rubber recoil pad on the rifles I was going to be shooting for extended periods of time. Once I got used to the recoil impulse, I was able to shoot without the pad and not flinch so long as I didn't shoot more than 20-30 rounds or so at a time. After that my shoulder would start to get a little sore, although I wouldn't feel it until later.

I did use some shims to lighten up the trigger pull (or was it release point)? and I tried to sand out the inside of a stock to even up the contact points. It might have helped a little bit, but the particular gun I tried this with already shot well enough for a milsurp before I did those things. I think *I* got better with that gun as time went on.

I think the reason you're getting so many other suggestions is that few if any of us have heard this particular reason (the physical action of a turn bolt) for developing a flinch, and fewer of us have the same experience.

 

[Hoxviii]

Crowd up to the rear sight more and focus more on the front sight.

I had the same issue with a Mosin. Seeing the bolt drop and it slamming forward would make me jump, but if i crowded up enough and focused hard on the front sight so I couldn't see the rear of the bolt, the issue went away.

Could also try modifying the safety disc. the safety is worthless anyway, so removing the disc and just having it be a nub might help you out IF seeing it fall is part of the issue.

 

[Cosmoline]

Maybe it's just a question of getting used to it.

 

[caribou]

You can get a Mosin up to the snuff of any other Bolt gun, bar none.

Keep shooting it.
Hold at 6'0clock.
Pull the stock snug and firm to your shoulder.
Dont grip the forstock, set it apon your hand.1/2 your dispertion problems should end right there.

Make sure your stock screws are snug.
Try different kinds of ammo, if you can and see what works best.

Keep it clean, especially the chamber, so it dosent devolope a "Sticky bolt" , as in it'll be hard to cycle after a shot.

I make a living with Mosin Nagants, they can be a most plesant accurate rifle o carry everyday.

 

[heycatman]

Mosin-Meat-Masher

I'd agree with the others. If you are using the original stock on that Mosin it could have/has a metal (steel) plate on the but. If it were a German gun they'd call it a large potato masher but it's Russian so it's more like a Mosin-Meat-Masher. If you switch to the synthetic stock, which you can do without modification to original parts, and just keep your original stock for authenticity purposes you'll find it a lot more enjoyable to shoot. Either that or a shoulder pad might help. Either way my mosin-meat-masher made me flinch after the first 50 rounds, LOL!

Most would say keep it original and I've even come across forums that will only let you post if it's about factory original Mosins but that's for the collectors. If you're like me and want an accurate shooting gun that didn't come like that then you'll find this interesting.

I drilled and tapped a 10-32 machine screw into the bottom of the receiver and then dremel cut of the top of a machine screw and then slot into the top so I could use a regular screw driver to adjust the tension on the trigger sear. It doesn't reduce trigger tension but makes the pull much easier and can be easily adjusted with a screw driver and sliding the bolt out. I'd suggest lock tight when you get it were you want it. It could make the gun more prone to accidental fire but really, it's the same action with the trigger slightly pulled for you already. So I'm not really worried about it being that much more dangerous. Not to mention it's still not light or easy to pull per say. But..... modify at your own risk.

This picture might have too much glare but the screw is adjustable from the top without completely taking apart the rifle. Just pull the bolt out and use a small screw regular screw driver. I could have put a nicer hex screw in there but then I'd have to drive to the store as well as remember to have a hex wrench in the correct size around me while siting in the gun. Just make sure you get rid of any burs from drilling out the hole. I didn't even paint or blue it I just threw some ZEPP 2000 (good penetrating grease) on it to prevent rust.

 

[Caliper_Mi]

Perhaps check your firing pin protrusion? If you have one of the teardrop shaped tools that comes with most Mosins, that has a protrusion gage on it. I don't think the cocking piece hits the bolt body when firing a live round.

More dry firing sounds like the ticket, and maybe a slip-on limbsaver pad (they really work well).

Also, make sure your action screws are snug.

 

[M91/30]

Are you still looking to accurize it? I could write up a guide real quick.