ACLU sues state for arresting illegals!

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What PC?

I see it that the officer had reasonable cause (crappy/no story, few english speakers, and few ID's) to suspect that a crime was in process
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WHAT crime? This was State Police, not Federal Immigration. There is no State crime involved, therefore, no Probable Cause.

Do you really want to have local LEO’s deciding, on their own, to arrest suspects for Federal offenses?
Can you prove that the rifle in your pickup was purchased in accordance with BATFE regs? If you can’t, should officer Friendly haul you in for investigation?
 
2 points to consider:

1)
Foob - Doesn't that sound like effect and not cause?

The cause is "they have brown skin" (or she was just having a bad day).

The effect is "I'll ask them for ID, open the van door, and arrest them because they can't produce ID or speak english or have legal residency papers".

The cops can't search your car without your permission, find your cocaine stash, then say that their probable cause is the cocaine stash. That's what they found after the illegal search.
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Bad anology. A cocaine stash, is by definition, stashed - hidden. Fourteen people in the van are in plain sight. Once the cop had probable cause to pull the van over, any evidence seen through the windows can be considered probable cause for further investigation of other possible crimes. What if he had smelled alcohol or marijuana smoke when the driver rolled the window down to hand out his DL and registration? Not an answer to the question necessarily, just pointing out that it's not the best analogy to use.

2) On the other hand, can the police legally require a driver to drive to a location not of their choosing? That seems like illegal seizure (of the gasoline in the tank, wear and tear on the vehicle, etc) in violation of the driver's constitutional rights.
 
Hehe I don't think having 14 people in plain sight constitutes a crime, or probable cause, unlike cocaine visible in your back seat. I guess that's also weird, she won't know it's cocaine until she field tests it.

Not speaking english also does not constitute probable cause.

Unless 1 of the 14 was on a wanted poster and she recognized him, then she would have probable cause. Or one of them was committing a crime at that moment.

It would suck if cops, instead of having seatbelt enforcement zones, started stopping all cars along a road who had occupants with brown skin and started asking for proof of legal residency. After all, the occupants are in plain sight. The supreme court would swat that down in a second.... hopefully.
 
I remember reading about the Texas Rangers, about 100 years ago some of them were sent along the border because Mexican rustlers were coming across and bringing our cattle back. The Rangers went down there and shot the rustlers dead. All of them. The Rangers were applauded. End of story.
How things have changed. In the age of political correctness we have to ask if foreign invaders have rights. No Federal LEO's were needed, the foreign invaders were invading TEXAS. State issue.
 
I remember reading about the slavers, about 150 years ago. Slaves were escaping. Slavers went and shot the slaves dead. All of them. The slavers were applauded. End of story.
How things have changed. In the age of political correctness we have to ask if slaves have rights. No Federal LEO's were needed, the slaves were escaping TEXAS. State issue.

Sometimes, change is a good thing. To some people.

/joking about reading about that story heh
 
I've had officers get every I.D. in the car in the good ole state of Ill. on nothing more than a speeding ticket. I dont know the law in R.I. but I don't see the problem anyway. They got busted. Had they been US residents with real papers they would have gotten their ticket and been on their merry way but they weren't so sucks to be them.:D
 
As a white, blonde haired, blue eyed male who was stopped by the police and couldn't produce documentation as to who I was I believe I would be detained till I could. I would guess that the overwhelming majority of over 18 US citizens have some form of identification.
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We arent talking about I.D.

We are talking about "proof of citizenship". That doesnt mean your driver's license. That means a passport, do you carry yours?
 
1) I've never had a cop ask for my ID as a passenger in a car
2) I've never had a cop ask for my passenger's IDs
3) I regularly go about without any ID... specifically, I'll leave my wallet at home, or in my car, or at the office, when I know I'm either just going for a walk or just going out as a passenger with someone else. I don't want to support the assumption that everyone carries their papers at all times.
4) I have had cops ask for my ID as I was walking around... when I said I didn't have it on me they usually got pretty upset (thinking I was lying) but left me alone after a few minutes.
5) Drivers license is not proof of citizenship. If someone wanted proof of citizenship from me right now I'd have to cross three states, two (or more) locked doors, and open a safe to get anything that would qualify.

The ACLU is absolutely correct to pursue this case. It comes down to the old question of what sort of hell do you want to live in... a hell where people are free to live side by side minding their own business or a hell where cops have the right to demand anything they want, and hold you under threat of lethal force, without cause. The cop was wrong. The fact that the people may have also been wrong is irrelevant. Why are you so eager to give up YOUR liberties to punish others? That makes no sense. You should always defend your liberties. Always.

And the constitution applies to everyone in the country, regardless of citizenship. Equal protection is equal protection, not "equal protection for all citizens"...
 
Ed those folks were not CITIZENS. Also C_yeager the article says he asked for ID first according to the ACLU statement ,not their passports. If by law the officer has the right to get passenger ID's he has done nothing wrong but offend some bleeding heart liberals who apparently believe we shouldn't have a border.
 
coulda ya

"If by law the officer has the right to get passenger ID's he has done nothing wrong "

find that law?
 
I dropped a friend off once, didn't bring my wallet, no identification. Cop stopped me (for nearly running a red light) and asked for my name, checked it on her computer, told me I could have been ticketed for not having my license, and sent me on my merry way.

Glad she didn't ask for my citizenship papers or send me to ICE.
 
diddly

is a good choice of words. but hey "it coulda happened that way"

if ya got the time you can scroll up and see the several references to why what the cop did fell outside the law. but that might be more diddly than your into
 
Also C_yeager the article says he asked for ID first according to the ACLU statement ,not their passports. If by law the officer has the right to get passenger ID's he has done nothing wrong but offend some bleeding heart liberals who apparently believe we shouldn't have a border.
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a) Show me the law that says its OK to ID the passengers.

B) I already quoted it once, but that doesnt seem adequate so I will do some bolding this time to help you out.

“Chabot nonetheless proceeded to open the doors of the vehicle, and by utilizing Tamup as a translator, requested all the passengers to also provide identification,” according to an ACLU synopsis of the case. When some failed to do so, Chabot then asked them to produce documents “demonstrating their U.S. citizenship.”
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The article actually differentiates between regular ID and proof of citizenship so there really can't be any confusion, unless you dont actually bother to read he whole article.
 
requested all the passengers to also provide identification,” C yeager this came first. Cassandrasdaddy just like Lar15 just pointed out that is the ACLU claim so unless you have forgotten there are always 2 sides to a story but apparently you have put your faith in the ACLU and as we all know the ACLU is never wrong or liars.
 
i do find

it peculiar that early on the cops tout the video as "will exonerate the officer" and then don't want to release it to the aclu or media. it does make an old man wonder
 
The video will have to played at some point if they hope it will exonerate anyone and the fact that they probably would prefer not to be persecuted by court of public opinion doesn't surprise me a bit. For proof of this some of you guys have them convicted just on what the ACLU alone has stated.
 
hardly

"For proof of this some of you guys have them convicted just on what the ACLU alone has stated."

you are mistaken if we rely solely on the officers account of what happened he screwed the pooch. the other alleged details just make it worse
 
Being that the officers account is no where in that article how has he screwed anything. Also a passport isn't the only form of documentation. If you are a immigrant you can also have a Pink or Green card and they coudn't apparently even produce one of those. And by the way C yeager by law you do have to keep those with you at all times.
 
C yeager

Quote:
As a white, blonde haired, blue eyed male who was stopped by the police and couldn't produce documentation as to who I was I believe I would be detained till I could. I would guess that the overwhelming majority of over 18 US citizens have some form of identification.

We aren’t talking about I.D.

We are talking about "proof of citizenship". That doesn’t mean your driver's license. That means a passport, do you carry yours?


I do carry my passport, when I’m out of the country. Identification was asked for first. This is according to the aclu’s account. But this is not the point. I still contend that if I, as a blonde haired blue eyed male, couldn’t produce and form of ID it would be a problem.

I can see a chain of events occurring where the officer stopped the van for a minor traffic violation. He observed fourteen passengers in a vehicle some not wearing seat belts and upon questioning them realized they couldn’t understand him. This has to raise suspicion ( probable cause ? ) He then escalates and asks for ID. None can be provided. At this point what does he do? He suspects illegal aliens and takes them to ICE.

AND foob,

You keep bringing up brown skin as the reason. I disagree with this. I respectfully submit that the lack of understanding of the common language as the probable cause, not the skin color. I believe that fourteen white blonde haired blue eyed males who couldn’t speak English would have brought the same suspicion ( probable cause ? ) .
 
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