Acme 124 gr Lipstick Bullets

[Sharper2112]

Recently I purchased 1000 Acme 124 gr hi-tek lipstick bullets because they get a lot of high praise and are priced very fairly. The problem I'm having is that the bullet profile is such that I'm having to load them fairly short for a 124 gr projectile. I have no problem loading Berrys or RMR 124 gr plated at 1.15, and with those I was using data right off of the Hodgdon site for CFE Pistol. I loaded most of them in the middle of data @ 5.2 grains. Anyway, with these Acme bullets I can't seem to get them to consistently plunk unless I take them all the way down to about 1.080. The powder I have currently is Power Pistol though; I've actually loaded some up with 4.6 grains at the 1.080 seating depth and they seemed to be fine. I didn't see any noticeable pressure signs. I guess what I'm asking is have any of you had any experience with the 124 gr lipstick bullets from Acme? If so, did you find you needed to seat them shorter as well? To be honest they actually look kind of weird if you seat them much beyond 1.090 anyway. Does my charge of 4.6 PP seated at 1.080 seem reasonable, or am I teetering on the edge? My gun is a Springfield Armory Mod 2 Service Model. Any advice greatly appreciated

 

[rfwobbly]

There is no "long" or "short", only what works in your barrel.

The 124gr Zero bullet above in my barrel has a maximum OAL of 0.990" while the 124gr Berry loads at very nearly 1.200" (if I didn't have to use a magazine). So a small change in the curvature of the ogive can change the OAL drastically.

There is a whole list of bullets I regularly load where the maximum OAL is under 1.100". The Berry round nose bullets are an exception. Don't get spoiled and think all 9mm bullets can load out as long as they do.

Hope this helps.
.

 

[Sharper2112]

Yea that's a great example you provided there and makes a lot of sense. The ACME bullet is definitely closer to the Zero than the Berrys. I'm still fairly new to reloading (loaded about 3500 rounds) and I'm starting to realize everything isn't always black and white. I read so much about the 9mm being so VERY sensitive with regards to pressure though I wanted some other opinions. All other rounds I've loaded before I could pretty much match a published recipe, but not with these. I think what I'll do is keep backing off the charge until I reach a point where the gun won't cycle anymore and then work back up from there. I appreciate your reply

 

[jell-dog]

Sharper2112,
I am working up loads for Acme 9mm 122gr FP-NLG coated bullet (PIFed from Dudedog) using PowerPistol.
To plunk in my Sig M11-A1 9mm pistol I came up with 1.120" COL to "plunk" and turn freely in my barrel.
Acme 122gr FP-NLG:
http://www.acmebullet.com/bullets-reloading-brass/9MM-Lead-Cast-Reloading-Bullets?product_id=457
The 124 RN-NLG:
http://www.acmebullet.com/bullets-reloading-brass/9MM-Lead-Cast-Reloading-Bullets?product_id=424
Has a very different shaped ogive, so I am not surprised that you may need to have a 1.080 COL to plunk in your pistol.

As far as your question of "Does my charge of 4.6 PP seated at 1.080 seem reasonable....." yes it does.
Here is a search you can look at with several opinions on loads for the 124gr bullet using Power Pistol:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?search/2053147/&q=Power+Pistol+in+9mm&o=relevance&c[node]=15

As you state you see no over pressure signs and your pistol functions well at the 4.5gr load, it would seem to be a good load.

You have to load what fells reasonable and safe to you, taking care to watch for those signs of over pressure, as you have been doing.

I strongly agree with rfwobbly to not get hung up on COL, every gun may be happy with different COL for the same bullet.
Your gun and the plunk test will show you what COL to use.

How is your accuracy?

I hope other members with more reloading experience will chime in on this for you.


JD

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Coated bullets also add size to the nose of the bullet profile. Doesn't have as much effect on some profiles but the RN it does. really gets up into the rifling if your not careful . I had to sink my 125gr LRN from a new mold all the way down to 1.072 to pass a plunk test after coating them. Since my charge was a full charge I backed the load off .2gr and they cycle shoot fine with no pressure signs.

 

[LiveLife]

Sharper2112, welcome to THR.

Acme 124 gr hi-tek ... I'm having to load them fairly short for a 124 gr projectile ... can't seem to get them to consistently plunk unless I take them all the way down to about 1.080.

With any new bullet, you need to use the OAL that will work with your barrel. Look at the comparison picture above and you will notice they have different length of bullet base (bearing surface) that will engage the rifling. Walkalong has an excellent thread to determine max OAL using the barrel/hood - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...rel-find-a-max-o-a-l-with-your-bullet.506678/

With "stepped" Dardas RN on the right, 1.125" will work for most barrels but with "non-step" Missouri RN with shorter rounder nose profile with longer base, I.080" will work in most barrels.

Comparison picture shows start of bearing surface on loaded rounds (white arrows). Non-step RN bullet loaded to 1.125" will hit the rifling in my barrels.

powder I have currently is Power Pistol though; I've actually loaded some up with 4.6 grains at the 1.080 seating depth and they seemed to be fine.

Does my charge of 4.6 PP seated at 1.080 seem reasonable, or am I teetering on the edge? My gun is a Springfield Armory Mod 2 Service Model.

While I will lower my start charge by .2 - .3 gr for my powder work up when using shorter OAL/bullet seating depth than published OAL, if 4.6 gr of Power Pistol reliably cycles the slide and extract/eject the spent cases, I would use 4.6 gr as my start charge and test .1-.2 gr increment charges while looking at accuracy trends.

Current Alliant load data shows 6.4 gr as max charge for 124 gr Gold Dot HP at 1.120" and 2004 Alliant load data shows 6.6 gr as max charge for 124 gr FMJ at 1.150" - http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=182147&d=1364769070

These posts from a Power Pistol thread show 5.2 - 5.7 gr working at longer 1.135"-1.150" OAL so I would work up to 4.8 gr and even 5.0 gr due to shorter 1.080" OAL used - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ed-bullet-w-power-pistol.728979/#post-9118663

My 5.2 gr PP with 124 FMJ is a really good load, so your 5.0 or a bit less for plated should be fine. For Zero 124 FMJ, my note says OAL = 1.135.

This one works for me, feeds, cycles, and shoots great through all of my 9mms: 124 gr RN Plated bullet, 5.3 gr. Power Pistol, Win or Rem spp, OAL 1.150", 1060 F.P.S

I load 5.7gr Power Pistol using Berry's 124gr Plated RNHB at 1.140" and measured 1086 fps from a Glock 19.

 

[jell-dog]

^^^^What bds said^^^^
JD

 

[Sharper2112]

I really appreciate all the responses; HUGE HELP Google searches of various questions I've had regarding reloading have led me to this forum many times and I always learned the most here. Glad I went ahead and joined. Jell-Dog the accuracy of 4.6 PP seemed to be quite good when I did my part. Thanks again guys!

 

[jwalts27]

I switched form RMR plated to Acme 124g coated and saw no difference in loading. The only thing I had to change was to turn in my expander die to not shave the coating off. They measured the same as the RMR. I load them to 1.120

 

[Sharper2112]

Jwalts it's my understanding that Acme changed the shape somewhat of their 124 gr coated Bullet. The previous design had more of a stepped profile as in the Dardas bullet from the post bds made above, while the new design tends to favor the Missouri RN also from the post above. I guess it's possible you are shooting the old design or your gun is just more forgiving than mine.

 

[Tcruse]

The plated XTreme 124g bullets are .355 in diameter. Acme is .356. So, I expected a little more pressure and found that backing off .2g makes them perform just fine. I did not change the setting on my setting die and had no problem. They do "smell" a bit differently but no smoke or other negatives for indoor ranges. I think that some of the commercial re-manufactured ammo has started using ACME in 9mm and .45ACP (Good to Go ?). I talked to one of the vendors for quite a while about the choice and they have had no complaints.

 

[jwalts27]

The plated XTreme 124g bullets are .355 in diameter. Acme is .356. So, I expected a little more pressure and found that backing off .2g makes them perform just fine. I did not change the setting on my setting die and had no problem. They do "smell" a bit differently but no smoke or other negatives for indoor ranges. I think that some of the commercial re-manufactured ammo has started using ACME in 9mm and .45ACP (Good to Go ?). I talked to one of the vendors for quite a while about the choice and they have had no complaints.

I don't know about Acme going commercial, but I believe Xtreme has a deal with Freedom Munitions.

 

[LiveLife]

X-Treme and Freedom Munitions are sister companies both owned by Howell Munitions and Technology - http://www.howellmunitionsandtech.com/

 

[mdemetz]

Freedom Munitions is currently only showing the X-Treme 223 bullet on their site.

 

[LiveLife]

But only in bulk quantity of 5000 for $450 - https://www.freedommunitions.com/am...s/bullets/rifle/223-55gr-fmj-5000ct-bulk.html

RMR sells 6000 for $468 but with 5% THR discount comes to $370 for 5000 shipped - https://rmrbullets.com/shop/bullets...-gr-rmr-fmj-boat-tail-new-100/?v=7516fd43adaa

RMR also has seconds which comes to $68.40 for 1000 shipped with 5% THR discount - https://rmrbullets.com/shop/bullets...-56-55-grain-fmj-2nds-1000-ct/?v=7516fd43adaa

 

[Sharper2112]

There is no "long" or "short", only what works in your barrel.

The 124gr Zero bullet above in my barrel has a maximum OAL of 0.990" while the 124gr Berry loads at very nearly 1.200" (if I didn't have to use a magazine). So a small change in the curvature of the ogive can change the OAL drastically.

There is a whole list of bullets I regularly load where the maximum OAL is under 1.100". The Berry round nose bullets are an exception. Don't get spoiled and think all 9mm bullets can load out as long as they do.

Hope this helps.
.

Well I have really experienced what you're talking about now. I usually shoot a Springfield XD, and that was the gun I was loading in when I said I had to seat @ 1.080 to plunk. However I also have an HK P30SK and decided to try some of the Acme 124's through it as well. I had to seat them even further for the HK barrel; all the way down to about 1.050 to consistently plunk. Of course I backed off the charge some and worked back up to be safe, but I really see what you're talking about now. I may just go back to a Berrys or RMR plated like in your pick above; that bullet shape is certainly easier to deal with.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Well I have really experienced what you're talking about now. I usually shoot a Springfield XD, and that was the gun I was loading in when I said I had to seat @ 1.080 to plunk. However I also have an HK P30SK and decided to try some of the Acme 124's through it as well. I had to seat them even further for the HK barrel; all the way down to about 1.050 to consistently plunk. Of course I backed off the charge some and worked back up to be safe, but I really see what you're talking about now. I may just go back to a Berrys or RMR plated like in your pick above; that bullet shape is certainly easier to deal with.

Really if you get them to plunk and worked the load up your there. Just make them and shoot them. In the end it only matters if they feed and shoot well. Also remember you can always change bullet profiles and that can change the ogive. End result can be an over all longer bullet that fits and feeds.

As silly as it seems bullet length consistency is not measured better to the bullet point but to the ogive. But when you realize that in most all cases the Ogive is more consistent than the tip its easier to see why measuring from the ogive is better. If you ever get into reloading rifle that information will come in handy as many bullet points are inconsistent when consistency is needed for accuracy. Also when i mentioned the RN and the coating earlier and how it reaches up there into to rifling much easier is because the ogive had little room to give without getting into the rifling. The coating took that away because the bullet noses are not resized after coating (not cost efficient to do so either) and deeper seating was the end result.

Good luck, welcome to THR, and be safe!

 

[rfwobbly]

It's not difficult, you simply need to be selective about your 9mm bullets. Realize that a blunt shape of the ogive OR any conical bullets that bring the full 0.355" diameter out in front of the case mouth represent a possible issue. This is what the cartoon below tries to depict....

The bullet labeled "Hollow Point" could just as well be any bullet with a blunt ogive, such as RNFP.

An inexpensive bullet that really works well for me in 9mm is the IDP#8 from Missouri Bullet Co. This is a 135gr RN in .357/.358" with the red Hi-Tek coating. I'm running these out at 1.130".

Hope this helps.
.

 

[Sharper2112]

It's not difficult, you simply need to be selective about your 9mm bullets. Realize that a blunt shape of the ogive OR any conical bullets that bring the full 0.355" diameter out in front of the case mouth represent a possible issue. This is what the cartoon below tries to depict....

The bullet labeled "Hollow Point" could just as well be any bullet with a blunt ogive, such as RNFP.

An inexpensive bullet that really works well for me in 9mm is the IDP#8 from Missouri Bullet Co. This is a 135gr RN in .357/.358" with the red Hi-Tek coating. I'm running these out at 1.130".

Hope this helps.
.

That's a great illustration. That is indeed a big help. The funny thing is I went shooting today with both my XD and HK pistols and it seems my OCD about making sure the rounds "plunked" when reloading was overkill. What I mean is I loaded a couple hundred at 1.080 (what XD plunked at) and a couple hundred at 1.050 (what the HK plunked at), but I ended up firing the majority out of my HK. In other words, even though 1.080 wasn't plunking in the HK, every single round I fired at that length went off without a hitch and cycled the gun flawlessly. I'm not suggesting the plunk test shouldn't be done or anything, but apparently there is a lot more wiggle room than the test implies.

 

[rfwobbly]

Sharper -
You need to be careful here...

Have you ever rolled a wheel up into a curb and then tried to jump the curb ? It's very hard. It takes a lot of energy. The better way to get your car to jump the curb is to back up and get a running start. Just a 1 foot rolling start makes all the difference.

It's the same thing with bullets. When the bullets are jammed against the rifling it's very hard for them to start moving. The powder burns and the pressure rises to tremendous energy levels (pressures) before any movement begins. Whereas, if you simply back the bullet off the rifling and let it get a "head start", it would enter the rifling at a much lower pressure.

That's the idea behind finding your Maximum OAL for each bullet in your barrel. By what ever method you choose, you need to insure a small "head start" clearance to keep your chamber pressure at a safe level.

Just because a cartridge seems to fire OK doesn't tell you anything about the resulting chamber pressures. Everything we do in reloading for pistols is to keep chamber pressure in check. Keeping the bullet out of the rifling is simply another step in that process.

Hope this helps.

 

[Sharper2112]

Sharper -
You need to be careful here...

Have you ever rolled a wheel up into a curb and then tried to jump the curb. It's very hard. It takes a lot of energy. The better way to get your car to jump the curb is to back up and get a running start. Just a 1 foot rolling start makes all the difference.

It's the same thing with bullets. When the bullets are jammed against the rifling it's very hard for them to start moving. The powder burns and the pressure rises to tremendous energy levels (pressures) before any movement begins. Whereas, if you simply back the bullet off the rifling and let it get a "head start", it would enter the rifling at a much lower pressure.

That's the idea behind finding your Maximum OAL for each bullet in your barrel. By what ever method you choose, you need to insure a small "head start" clearance to keep your chamber pressure at a safe level.

Just because a cartridge seems to fire OK doesn't tell you anything about the resulting chamber pressures. Everything we do in reloading for pistols is to keep chamber pressure in check. Keeping the bullet out of the rifling is simply another step in that process.

Hope this helps.[/QUOTE

Ahh OK. No I didn't really know or think of that. I appreciate you looking out for a relative newbie to the hobby. I'll keep plunking

 

[rfwobbly]

Ahh OK. No I didn't really know or think of that. I appreciate you looking out for a relative newbie to the hobby. I'll keep plunking.

The very best thing you can do is to keep asking questions, and keep learning. And you're doing a great job of that. You're on the right track. All the best !