Action job for j frame

[InkEd]

I purchased a 442 about 2 years ago and really like it. I bought it to replace an older chiefs special that was stolen from me a few years prior to that. I love how much lighter it is than the old steel frame but the trigger is gritty and heavy. I know that a dao trigger is usually not as nice as a sa/da trigger but I have heard getting an action and/or trigger job will greatly improve it. The gun that was stolen was from the late 80s/early 90's and was awesome. The new one is far from it. I have heard they use heavy springs which would explain the hard pull but the whole thing is not as smooth as the old one.

I was wondering if any of you have had an action or trigger job done to a newer jframe. If you did were you happy with the results. Lastly, if you were who do you recommend fir the service and what kind of prices and wait time should I expect. Thank very much in advance for your help. I dream of the day my new 442 is half as nice as that old chief special.

 

[John Wayne]

I have a new model 442 as well. Regarding the trigger, I have heard that:

-newer triggers are not as smooth as older Smiths

-Airweight guns do not have triggers as smooth as the steel-framed ones

-the trigger will smooth with use, but there's not as much to be gained by an action job as with the large k, l, n, etc. frames

My gun seemed to smooth out a bit after a few thousand rounds/snap cap "firings," but it is nowhere near my model 10-7.

 

[Oyeboten]

Better yet...


Go on Gunbroker...and, win an early 'Chiefs Special' or early Model 36, sell the new one, and...be Happy..!

 

[InkEd]

I have put about a thousand rounds through it and it still isn't too great. I don't want to get rid of the new one. I love the weight or should I say lack of. I'm wanting to make THIS gun better it has sentimental value as well. I remember readying an article about Gemini custom doing some good work anybody use them or somebody else for what I am talking about getting done?

 

[9mmepiphany]

you don't list where you are located, so i'll just mention the best S&W pistolsmith i know:

Randy Lee of Apex Tactical out by Morro Bay in CA link

Randy has told me that recent S&Ws have been pretty good, so if yours is still gritty after that many rounds, it's time for some action work.

you'll want an "action tune" rather than "trigger job". some smiths will sell you a trigger job that just polishes contact surfaces. if you're going to pay someone to open it up, why not have them check and adjust all the tolerances while they're in there anyway.

not only will the trigger stroke be buttery smooth, but there won't be any other drag and the cylinder will spin forever.

Randy is very well known in ICORE shooting circles and he's hated by the Performance Center...because they can't get actions of K, L and N-frames to do what he can

 

[Old Fuff]

I presume that this revolver is intended to be used or carried as a weapon.

You have several things working against you. The lightness that you like so much tends to make the trigger pull feel heavier then the same weight in a heavier model. It is possible that the gritty feel is caused by detritus left over by the manufacturing process. A through cleaning and fresh lubrication might work wonders. Because in the small frame the hammer and trigger pivots are located closer together the trigger has less leverage in rotating the hammer. Also the lighter weight hammer needs a heavier spring to insure a solid blow on the firing pin.

The springs are intentionally heavy to insure the gun will fire any ammunition, under any circumstances. One can of course switch-out the factory springs for lighter aftermarket ones, but there is an obvious risk in doing this. Polishing casehardened parts is always questionable, and seldom beneficial.

If you are unsure about the qualifications of any particular gunsmith I suggest that you return the gun to Smith & Wesson’s Performance Center for what is called a “street action job,” or tune-up. The internal parts will be custom fitted, but the springs won’t be changed. While this may not be the optimal or lightest way to go, you won’t have to worry about reliability. Do be aware that you cannot take the small J-frame revolvers and get a double-action trigger pull that is equal to those done on larger K, L and N frame models.

 

[red rick]

I called there performance shop and asked them about there action job work on my 642, he basically told me that I would be wasting my money sending it to them for that. He said just keep pulling the trigger.

 

[InkEd]

If it doesn't cost thousands of dollars the performance center could care less about anything. I think I will call a few places tomorrow and take it from there.
How many times should Do they expect me to pull the trigger to smoothe out what should have been done at the factory? A good bit of ammo and ALOT of dryfiring have not done a good enough job IMO. Smith and Wesson sures does not make as good a gun as they did I'm the past. However, they still act and charge like they do! Customer service from them has been IMO average at best. My future revolvers will probably be RUgers from now on. Which is sad because all my other smith and seasons wre great but between the poor action on this gun and the poor attitude from their customer dis-service reps I think they won't be getting anymore of my firearm dollars.

 

[tackstrp]

I called the performance center as was told that the lightweigt guns cant be tuned like an all steel. Said if i want a great gun get all steel.

Must say I can agree, i have a 30 year old model 36 that has a better trigger than any light weight 38 snub nose i have found in a gun store with one exception. The Ruger LCR, which I think is ugly and more ugly, has a great trigger and very light.

I may have to break down and buy the LCR

 

[gringolet]

wolf

going to sound too easy, but did it to mine with great success...
a wolff rebound spring. go with the ligtenend spring available from brownells... try this before you spend many $ or butcher the gun.

 

[msb45]

Once a year the S&W rep comes through the local gun shops for "S&W Days". Buy a gun and get a free trigger job. I watched him do it and I did notice a much smoother pull on my 642. Depending on the shop and the rep (both of ours were cool) you might get a favor. When I was there a guy pulled out a nice Mdl 10. The S&W guy took care of it no questions asked.

Got to love lifetime service and a passion for old blue wheel guns.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I called the performance center as was told that the lightweigt guns cant be tuned like an all steel. Said if i want a great gun get all steel.

that makes no sense, unless they are saying that it is harder to maintain position of the locator pins in the frame on the alloy guns.

my personal 642 had a horrible trigger pull before i had it tuned, it is now as good as most K/L-frames i've handled.

it isn't the weight of the pull that is the concern, it is the smoothness of the trigger stroke. smoothness does come from smooth contact surfaces, but it also comes frrom properly set tolerances between the action parts.

 

[slydel0kt]

My new 442-2 was 'supertuned' at the factory. Very nice. The little note inside the gun's box describes the work and values it at around $90.
I let my dad try it and he was impressed. He was an S.O. firearms instructor and has countless rounds thru his 342ti.
The tuned action is quite helpful in wringing out the accuracy in the shooter.

dan

 

[InkEd]

The spring kit is first on the list. LCR too ugly but too smooth.

 

[BlindJustice]

+1 for what Old Fuff points out... one thing that makes the Double Action trigger pull on the J-frame less tuneable than the K/L/N frames is that they
have a coil spring. THe larger framed S&Ws have a leaf main spring.

I've heard great reviews of Randy Lee - Also Grant Cunningham is known as a J-frame guru

I have a Model 60 3" Bbl. .357 Mag Chiefs Special - must have lucked out
because I like it, smooth enough for it's purpose and I tend to shoot it
90% Double Action - .38 SPecial +P course it's All Stainless Steel & 24 oz empty

Randall

 

[BlindJustice]

+1 for what Old Fuff points out... one thing that makes the Double Action trigger pull on the J-frame less tuneable than the K/L/N frames is that they
have a coil spring. THe larger framed S&Ws have a leaf main spring.

I've heard great reviews of Randy Lee - Also Grant Cunningham is known as a J-frame guru

I have a Model 60 3" Bbl. .357 Mag Chiefs Special - must have lucked out
because I like it, smooth enough for it's purpose and I tend to shoot it
90% Double Action - .38 SPecial +P course it's All Stainless Steel & 24 oz empty

Randall

 

[Old Fuff]

How many times should Do they expect me to pull the trigger to smoothe out what should have been done at the factory?

I think you misunderstand.

Smith & Wesson hammers and triggers are case hardened, which means they have a very hard surface, but are softer underneath that thin skin. When you dry-fire (or for that matter shoot the gun) the moving parts that are under spring tension burnish themselves smooth at contact points, without removing any metal.

Polishing does remove metal, which can affect the fit between parts if it’s taken too far, and in the worst case, you may polish through the hard skin to the softer metal underneath. I have a nice collection of now useless hammers and triggers that someone that didn’t know better polished to death.

In addition, the MIM parts in your revolver are made using a technology where a paste is made up of metal flakes that are mixed with a binder, put in a mold and heated to a point just short of melting. However the metal is fused with the binder, and this produces a part that requires no hand fitting – at least in theory.

However it doesn’t take a polish worth a darn.

They do however burnish pretty well, and this is the basis for the advice the folks at the factory gave you.

The days of hand fitted lockwork in revolvers is long gone, the victim of high overhead and labor costs. If this is what you really want you’ll have to buy an older gun – or pay someone to fit (not polish) the parts.

 

[cluttonfred]

Gemini Customs is better known for their custom Rugers but Marc also does S&Ws including some specific packages for J-Frames.

 

[krs]

The problem with the 642/442 is the alloy pieces used. You can't really do an old time action/trigger rework on them. The man was right in saying that it's a waste to pay to have it done because there isn't much that CAN be done.

They're junky little pistols and about the best to hope for is gained by installing a lighter return spring - maybe one of Wolff's little spring kits. But if you do that, make sure that the trigger returns solidly or you'll have a locked up little gunny when you need it the most.

If anyone ever shoots at you you'll never notice the trigger in what you shoot back but you'll definitely notice for a little while that your gun doesn't work. Maybe you'll have time to realize that it isn't working because you messed with it.

Night night.

 

[C-grunt]

My LGS has a Performance Center 642 for sale that has an awesome trigger. So they can obviously do the work. I was dead set that my next snub would be a LCR until I tried that thing out. MUCH MUCH lighter and smoother than my old 442.

 

[Marvin KNox]

+1 on Randy Lee at Apex. He's not cheap. But the best never is. He did a super job on both of my J frames.

By the way - if you go with a lower weight spring kit, be sure to replace the firing pin with an extended one such as sold by Apex. It will help to assure ignition with a variety of carry ammo.

 

[BADUNAME37]

I have a 642 that is about a year old. When I got it (new), there was a cosmetic issue where the gun needed a new right side plate. I had to send it to S&W to replace the plate.

While they had it, I called them and asked if they could "smoothen the trigger." The technician said yes, they could do that and it would be $74.00 for the parts and labor. He said it will make it the same trigger pull for each of five cylinder holes and consistent pull for the length of pull.

I got it back and the difference was night and day.

I could immediately feel the smoothness. I have shot over 600 rounds through it and every primer is hit hard, and no FTF's.

When I pull the trigger slowly enough, I can just feel almost at the end where the cylinder locks. Then I know just a hair more and the gun fires. When it does fire, the trigger is parked against the frame (I don't recall how it was BEFORE the work with respect to overtravel, but I can tell you there is virtually NONE now!).

When I got it back there is a spring or two that they replaced along with the little lever that pushes the star to turn the cylinder (pawl?).

 

[BADUNAME37]

The problem with the 642/442 is the alloy pieces used. You can't really do an old time action/trigger rework on them. The man was right in saying that it's a waste to pay to have it done because there isn't much that CAN be done.

They're junky little pistols and about the best to hope for is gained by installing a lighter return spring - maybe one of Wolff's little spring kits. But if you do that, make sure that the trigger returns solidly or you'll have a locked up little gunny when you need it the most.

If anyone ever shoots at you you'll never notice the trigger in what you shoot back but you'll definitely notice for a little while that your gun doesn't work. Maybe you'll have time to realize that it isn't working because you messed with it.

Night night.

Well, according to your own testimony, the 442 and 642's are junk to begin with.
If they are such junk, how come many police use them as their BUG's?

 

[Racinbob]

My 442 wasn't at all gritty out of the box. It had a trigger pull in excess of 12#. I went ahead and put a Wolff 15# rebound spring in it even though I typically never mess with my carry pieces. It made a big difference but is far from too light. I save the super slick triggers for my range and hunting guns. Unless I'm hunting something that would eat me.

 

[Marvin KNox]

KRS - QUOTE:
They're junky little pistols.......................
end QUOTE


One well respected professional law enforcement officer and well known handgun writer has called the little Centennial models from Smith and Wesson "the finest pocket revolvers in the world".

That assesment has been echoed by LEO's and gun writers for decades.

They have been used and endorsed by plain clothes detectives for primary carry, uniformed officers for BUG carry, and an army of civilian and military men and women including myself.

They are carried and trusted by jet fighter pilots and gang bangers alike.

Literally millions of rounds have been put through these little guns on the range, in the woods, and on the streets.

If Smith and Wesson keeps turning out junk like this they just may go bankrupt.