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Active military, time to go to Europe. Which is more gun friendly?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Mags, Dec 30, 2010.

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  1. Mags

    Mags Member

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    It's time for me to do an overseas assignment. Which European country listed has the best gun laws for a handgun/AR15 shooter and where do I find their laws at?

    Belgium (Kleine Brogel)
    Italy (Aviano/Ghedi)
    Netherlands (Volkel)
    Germany (Beuschel)

    I have been on my current assignment for so long I get to pick.

    Also, can I bring my guns to any of these countries? Can I bring guns I buy over there back to the US?

    Pointing me to their statutes would be great, I tried google but could not find law.
     
  2. Zeke Markham

    Zeke Markham Member

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    Good luck. I wouldn't plan on taking anything. I could be wrong though.
     
  3. 788Ham

    788Ham Member

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    Mags,

    I don't have the info you're seeking, however! Thanks for your service to our country, your continued faith in our troubling times. I served in the Navy from '67 -'71, another popular time to be enlisted. Hope things work out for your firearm questions, your firearm purchases and your swift return home.

    Semper Fi !

    788Ham
    Patriot who served
     
  4. McCall911

    McCall911 Member

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    This is pretty well second-hand information, but I'm aware that Italy is, or has been, restrictive when it comes to the 9x19, or 9mm Parabellum in particular. Citizens generally aren't, or weren't, allowed this caliber.
    My advice would be to contact the consulates of those countries and find out what their gun laws are, relative to your situation.
     
  5. White Horseradish

    White Horseradish Member

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    I don't have direct links, but I know people in Germany and Italy.

    Other than 9x19 restriction Italy has very decent gun laws. They even have carry fairly accessible to normal people. The common civilian caliber instead of 9x19 is 9x21 and most comparable guns are available in it. Every other caliber is no problem.

    Germany has awful gun laws. Not as bad as UK, but simply awful. Mandatory gun club memberships for a period of time (6 months?) before being allowed to buy a gun, huge problems getting another gun in a caliber you already own, carry permits exist but are unobtainable in practice. Import of guns is probably impossible.

    Netherlands and Belgium I am not familiar with, but never heard anything good about.
     
  6. wishin

    wishin Member

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    Keep bumping this thread to the top because there's one THR member in particular who I remember as being active military and having commented on his experience on this subject before. Sorry, but I can't recall his handle.
     
  7. Deltaboy

    Deltaboy Member

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    Go Swiss and you should be happy.
     
  8. Mags

    Mags Member

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    Too bad that is not an option, especially with them being neutral and all. I am leaning toward Belgium and the Netherlands.
     
  9. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

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    I'm also curious.
     
  10. Mags

    Mags Member

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    Lead, I was hoping you would have been one of the guys with an answer. Maybe Navy will have one...

    Also I am really leaning towards Belgium and the Netherlands after talking to the lil' lady on this subject.
     
  11. McCall911

    McCall911 Member

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    Embassy! Why couldn't I think of the word "embassy" instead of "consulate"?

    :banghead:

    :D


    Found some random items about Belgian gun laws on the web:

    http://www.comunidadesegura.org/en/node/33631


    http://gattina-writercramps.blogspot.com/2007/04/new-gun-law-in-belgium.html


    http://www.expatica.com/be/news/local_news/new-weapons-law-comes-into-force--30641.html


    One item about recent gun law changes in the Netherlands:

    http://www.expatica.com/nl/news/local_news/gun-laws-to-be-tightened-22085.html
     
  12. Mags

    Mags Member

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    Looks like in Belgium I need a purchase permit from the news links. I bet it's not easy to obtain.
     
  13. nalioth

    nalioth Member

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    When I was overseas, personal firearms were kept in the unit's arms room (including mine).

    You could also buy guns from the PX/BX (of local/regional manufacture).

    I suspect being a U.S. service member you'll have different avenues of gun acquisition than the citizens.
     
  14. PavePusher

    PavePusher Member

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  15. PavePusher

    PavePusher Member

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    P.S. You should probably also contact the Legal office of each base, and your local base TMO desk. They should have more info on hand, or be able to get it.
     
  16. wishin

    wishin Member

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    Bump............
     
  17. berrieberrie

    berrieberrie Member

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    Belgium chiming in here. I can't comment on your military status (which may make things more easy/difficult), but I can say something on handgun/AR-15 shooting:

    - Italy: some calibres are restricted to LE/military (9mm para, for example)

    - Germany: has some funky restrictions on semi-auto rifles which remind me of CA - limited mag capacity, no lasers or weapon lights, certain mounts are prohibited as well

    - Holland: until recently, stocks needed to be permanently fixed

    So, Belgium and Holland seem to place the least restrictions on the guns themselves. In all, I think Holland would be you best bet: there's a discipline called "dynamic service rifle" (no such thing in Belgium), and it's easier to find a range beyond 25-50 yards there.
     
  18. Mags

    Mags Member

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    Looks like I'm going to Belgium guys. What do I do with my guns. KB is a GSU and has no legal office or arms room for privately owned firearms due to SOFA and the fact that it is a host nation base.
     
  19. Rocketmedic

    Rocketmedic Member

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    You need to contact whoever's receiving you.
     
  20. Blackrock

    Blackrock Member

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    I was stationed in Augsburg Germany in 1970 and as a junior NCO I had to keep my firearms in the unit armory. I could check them out after submitting triplicate paperwork through my 1st Sgt.We had range time available twice a month weather permitting. We used a military pistol and rifle range plus had a trap and skeet course (for the Officers).
    We had a Rod & Gun club and a sales store where I worked which was nice as I got to keep all the firearms wiped down and oiled.
    I bought 4 long guns and 2 handguns while there and when I shipped out boy howdy that was another paperwork mess.
    I also had the opotunity to go along on a Chamois hunt with a Major friend of mine which was a lot of fun.
     
  21. Langenator

    Langenator Member

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    +1 on what Rocketmedic said. Contact your gaining unit. Host nation laws are only part of the equation; the SOFA (Status of Forces Agreement) is the other. There are some foreign duty assignments where US servicemembers aren't alloowe to toake POWs at all.

    I haven't been stationed overseas since the late 90s (Baumholder, Ger) and I didn't own any guns when I went. I bought two pistols (a SiG and an HK) from the Rod & Gun club when I was there. However, I understand that the R&Gs no longer sell firearms.
     
  22. Mags

    Mags Member

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    Just sent an email to the US-Belgium embassy.
     
  23. davewil37

    davewil37 Member

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    Your transportation office should have the info or the base legal office for firearms shipping and restrictions for your gaining location. What was good a few years ago is usually no longer valid so unless someone is currently at the locations you ask about, the info you get may be out of date.

    DaveUSAF
     
  24. Ron James

    Ron James Member

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    Of course you are aware that unless your travel orders authorizes you to transport a firearm, you aren't going to take anything nor bring anything back.
     
  25. nalioth

    nalioth Member

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    Are "travel orders" anything like "PCS orders"?

    As I recall, my PCS orders didn't say anything about anything being restricted.
     
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