ACTUAL pepper spray SHU ratings, Spitfire

[ultramar]

Cone sprays

Yes, SHU is a medieval and meaningless "measurement." Ridiculous!

Re Stretchman's remark that, "For civilian use a cone spray is better than a stream," there are two distinct disadvantages to cone spray, for civilian use or LE.

First, if the wind is in your face, the spray is likely to be too!

Second, you pay a range penalty. I want to blind and incapacitate the bad guy as far away from me as possible, and straight stream does that.

 

[USGuns]

Cone or Stream

There are good arguments presented in this thread both for and against Cone spray and Stream. Personally I think any time I will need pepper spray will be at a very close range and am not sure what kind of effect the wind will have at those intimate distances and so I find myself leaning towards Cone spray but it's a tough call, both make sense!

Maybe someone needs to come up with an OC dispenser where you can choose between Cone and Stream ... by default, leave it on Cone spray and if you have the distance you might have time to flip it to stream.

 

[ultramar]

Cone vs. stream

Excellent and original idea to have a "cone/spray choice" nozzle, and it doesn't sound like it would take a rocket scientist to invent one either.



New subject: There is a brand called "Streetwise" marketed as what they claim is a 17% OC spray, in various sizes, including a 4-oz. LE.

Does anybody know if the claimed percentage is truthful? Has anybody had field experience with one of these?

 

[bigdog21]

heres a review of streetwise from an oc instructor i know.
So far, with what I have found.. The MSDS sheet on this product is hard to find, but I located it.

The reason it rates at 17%, is that it is not a OC (Oleoresin Capsicum) stand alone. The composition follows at 3% OC (Oleoresin Capsicum), and 3% CS (Orthoclorobenzalmalonitrile). The combination of these three ingrediants is what gives it a longer SHU, but the rating for it is still 2 Million SHU. Its more than an irritant, its also "Membrane Irritant" and causes swelling in the nasal passages for short durations. The residual effects of these chemicals will include increased amounts of sinus release. The heat effects are the same as standard OC sprays. Its the duration that is different. Because it has CS in its composition, it remains on the body long after exposure, and even with water and air decontamination. Other aspects to a combo spray like this, is that it stains clothing, and does not wash out with just water. You will need to wash in laundry, by itself, with soap a few times. The clothes will hold the irritant for a period of time, just as any other stain.

The purpose to combination sprays, such as this, is that CS by itself, takes 5-30 seconds to take effect, where OC can take only a couple seconds.

CS is not consumable, it that is of concern, and the product you requested, has an actual "First Aid" packet that comes with it, or should as described in the brochure.

Other side effects of CS exposure, are groin pains, arm pit pains, and unlike OC, CS will permanantly destroy contact lenses.

The projectant of "StreetWise Pepper Spray", is not disclosed. I am concerned about this.

The severe side effects of CS exposure are risk for respiratory compromise or asphyxiation, according to the Department of Justice.

I am not bashing CS or CN, as it is great for its uses, but CS and CN are also flammable. THey are not EDW (Electronically Deployed Weapon) safe.

IMO: I would stay away from it. Its a no-name brand, that has chemical solvent carrier compositions, and in court, will kill you, especially when operating in the security industry. The damage CS and CN can do to personal effects, such as clothing and contact lenses, can possibly be charged to you. Other problem I had with StreetWise, they do not provide a LOT Production sheet upon request. FOX, Sabre, Def-Tech, United Chemical all do, in order to provide court action against you as another safety step.

 

[brent376]

Spitfire is a very good pepper spray and it is one of a few (Sabre Red, DPS X Stream Range) that is consistantly hot. The HPLC test results dont lie and with Spitfire about the same heat rating as Sabre Red you know you are getting a very hot product. The Spitfire also has a good base that evaporates very fast alowing the product to work almost on contact.

Per the NIJ study pepper spray was most used at distances of three feet or less. A good pepper spray does not have to shoot 15 feet to be effective. Spitfire was made to be used on someone during a sudden blitz assault and it has a 360 degree valve so it sprays any direction and can hit an attacker who has you in a bear hug.

 

[Mike L]

Hot Pepper Spray

I recently purchased wildfire pepper spray from http://www.dz-gear.com. It claims to be the hotest. 18 percent pepper spray! Is this not effective or overated as dicussed above?

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Funny how most of the top ones, including the spitfire you mention, only deliver about 10% of the stated SHUs (2 million vs. 210K), and then they go DOWN from there.

 

[NorestRDS]

wildfire is not horrible stuff , its just not all that refined and doesnt have a high capsaicinoid percentage . It will surely do the job though . But no it is not the hottest.

 

[hornblower]

US Guns

Unless I am reading the Independent Test Results on Pepper Sprays that you listed in your original post, the ratings for Sabre Red and Spitfire are identical.

I have the Spitfire unit and I found the practice cylinder a good idea.
Fortunately, I have not had to spray anyone, but the Spitfire is very convenient to carry and would be hard to accidently discharge.
I have no experience with the Sabre system.

 

[brentfoto]

Buz and others:

Look at the youtube video below and please advise if at the very beginning they were doused with the STREAM or was it the CONE (FOG). I don't know enough to tell, but would guess it's the STREAM, because I do not see any 'fog' per se, and due to comment, below.

Anyway, it was pretty impressive delivery.

BUZ Quote:
If for the first split second you mis with a can of OC you can simply correct and sweep the stream over the perps face with the unit like the guardian angel you cannot!

Here are examples of what I mean!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm81VIJUEwI

 

[NorestRDS]

i have the h20 water based stream and i like it . however the Sabre h20 series of sprays always come one size bigger then they are supposed to . thew 3.3 oz comes in a 4oz can and the 1.8 comes in a 3 oz . that is really crappy of them , but obviously im sure they have there reasons.

 

[bigdog21]

i have the h20 water based stream and i like it . however the Sabre h20 series of sprays always come one size bigger then they are supposed to . thew 3.3 oz comes in a 4oz can and the 1.8 comes in a 3 oz . that is really crappy of them , but obviously im sure they have there reasons.

The reason is to fit law enforcement pepper spray holsters. The belt holsters only come in sizes that fit the mk3 , 2 ounces, and mk4, 4 ounces, for duty use. So they had to keep the can sizes the same.The Sabre DPS and H20 formulations were made for law enforcement, if you look on the back of the can it says to be used by law enforcement , corrections, military and security personnel but private citizens can use it as well.

 

[bigdog21]

Buz and others:

Look at the youtube video below and please advise if at the very beginning they were doused with the STREAM or was it the CONE (FOG). I don't know enough to tell, but would guess it's the STREAM, because I do not see any 'fog' per se, and due to comment, below.

Anyway, it was pretty impressive delivery.

Its a heavy stream.

 

[brentfoto]

Thanks, dog.

I recently learned there are at least 4 types, depending upon manufacturer:
1. Stream
2. Fog
3. Cone
4. Gel or foam

 

[brent376]

Try Vexor from the maker of cap Stun. It has 15 million SHU's and is the hottest and most intense spray I have ever experienced. It also works in the coldest weather and hottest desert.

 

[NorestRDS]

except the vexor consumer model is clumsy at best and awkward to boot. try asking there service rep about what the actual ONH is cause they stutter around and say its a trade secret .

 

[brent376]

OTN heat is a gimmick. The only true measurement of pungency is the concentration of Capsaicinoids in the formula. You won’t see the OTN heat rating on a Govt canister because it is manufacturers playing the numbers game. You wont find it on the military sprays or bear sprays. Vexor removes all the inactive oleoresin and waxes leaving only pure capsaicin in the formula. No other brand has this and it’s patented. You have to very carefully consider the inactive ingredients in the formula as well. Most of the chemicals in the cheep sprays were never designed to be sprayed in the face or eyes of someone. Most actually reduce the inflammatory effects of the OC. The challenge was to develop a non flammable product that was extremely effective, free of carcinogens and one that does not reduce the inflammatory effects of the capsaicinoids in the spray. Before Vexor the best sprays had to contain Isopropyl Alcohol which is highly flammable and can’t be used with Tasers.

Most sprays are 2 million before being mixed and the Vexor is 15 million. I have been exposed to Fox Labs, Sabre Red, Def Tech. and Spitfire. Vexor was the hottest and most brutal I have ever been exposed to. Zarc is the inventor of OC technology and they invented the First Spray Cap Stun. All the other companies are pepper clones. This is why Zarc products are used by the FBI, US Army US Border Patrol exclusively, as well as over 3,000 agencies in 40 countries. They also don’t use dangerous chemicals and cheep UV dyes (silly gimmick because cops don’t walk around with black lights in their pockets or cars) in there sprays like the generic brands. Everything in Zarc Products is cosmetic or food grade. They have documented reports on their website from the FBI, US Army, US Department of Corrections and several others that give their products a 95% effectiveness rating. Mot sprays are 54%-80%. The reports don’t lie. See for yourself.

 

[brent376]

Also the Vexor Consumer model has the same micro spin actuator as the Govt model so I dont know what makes you think its clumsy.

 

[NorestRDS]

the fact that you have to push in a safety and then pull a trigger and the trigger to exposed to leave the safety on all the time and just throw it in a cargo pocket . If Vexor decides to wise up and throw a flip top on a 2 oz model that gets more then five bursts , i will buy it right up. you would never see me or anyone i care carrying a model that looks like acne medicine applicator.

 

[NorestRDS]

out of the nozzle heat is a huge factor . its the after dilution heat . its the business end. if 15 million shus hit your face it would turn it into a blister filled puss ball . 15m is the pre dilution . Just like most sprays that claim 2 mil shus that does not come out of the can . 80,000 - 250,000 come out . capsasinoids also plays a factor in how fast the burn picks up .

 

[RX-178]

I have to say that I have actually paid for classes and training in the use of this stuff, and as a result of these classes, I can't bring myself to carry any.

In one scenario, an instructor tells you a random address or location to remember, then you're given a cell phone, which you put in your pocket, belt pouch, or however you normally carry it. Then you're sprayed, and you're required to dial 911, and still be coherent enough to tell them the address you were given earlier.

In another, using beamhit training targets and weapons. The instructor wears a target, then sprays you. You then have to draw your weapon and hit the target, while the instructor moves around, or sometimes even attempts to disarm you.


I don't recall what brands I got hit with, but they all certainly worked!

If you carry any of this stuff, make sure you also carry the decon wipes with you!

 

[brent376]

Vexor also now has a twist top model that fits on a key ring and delivers a powerful cone spray. I have this unit on my keys and the Micro Spin in the car. With a little practice the Micro Spin cap is not hard to use. IT is also made that way so if you drop it in a fight or the assailant tries to use it against you he won’t be able to or it will take him some time to deliver the product. When you grab the spray in a firm grip it naturally takes the safety off and readies the unit to be fired.

The fact that it is 15 million SHU before it is mixed tells you how hot the product is. I have spoke with several officers who use this spray and they have said it surpasses anything they currently have seen in use. Any product that uses pure capsaicinoids is going to be much hotter than a product that is filled with 2-10% oil and waxes. The difference in reaction time is also a good factor with Vexor. Most sprays have a gradual build up of heat but vexor burns at its full potential the moment it hits the face. Plus with the Cone spray pattern since it has no oil it fires a very fine atomized cloud that is slow to dissipate.

Two other devices I have heard good things about are the Taser C2 and the Tiger light T100 pepper spray flashlight combo.

 

[brentfoto]

RX-178 I have to say that I have actually paid for classes and training in the use of this stuff, and as a result of these classes, I can't bring myself to carry any.

In one scenario, an instructor tells you a random address or location to remember, then you're given a cell phone, which you put in your pocket, belt pouch, or however you normally carry it. Then you're sprayed, and you're required to dial 911, and still be coherent enough to tell them the address you were given earlier.

In another, using beamhit training targets and weapons. The instructor wears a target, then sprays you. You then have to draw your weapon and hit the target, while the instructor moves around, or sometimes even attempts to disarm you.


I don't recall what brands I got hit with, but they all certainly worked!

If you carry any of this stuff, make sure you also carry the decon wipes with you!
June 8th, 2008 08:29 AM

I don't quite understand your point. Why WOULDN'T you carry? Your decision not to carry is not supported by your facts. Your facts suggest that one should indeed carry, unless it's a personal decision that you would not want to subject an attacker to such non-lethal force, which I can not fathom. The overall result is better than killing the guy, considering the moral, legal, great financial and emotional consequences.

 

[RX-178]

Yes, it's a personal decision. I do feel better knowing that if I had to use it, I have the training to use it more effectively, but there were enough drills regarding getting inadvertently hit by your own sprays (such as when the situation goes into a grapple or brawl). I have trained in martial arts, so I personally feel that I'd be better off not having to end up dealing with an incapacitating spray going off while I'm in a fistfight with someone.

I know it works, and I don't mean to sound like I'm not recommending it as a self defense tool. It is a VERY good self defense tool. But if you use it, buy decontamination wipes and keep them with you whenever you have the spray on you. I'd recommend not even carrying it if you do not have decon wipes available.

 

[brentfoto]

Good suggestion. I have the wipes, but never carry them.

My new plan will be to leave them in the car, but I won't carry them on my person, too much PITA. I hope they'll not be ruined from the heat.