AD Concealed Carry Survey... The Article Should Be Interesting

[Fred Fuller]

No, no - not a noisy failure of the sort that comes from failure to maintain proper trigger finger register. AD in this case is Ambulance Driver, a Louisiana paramedic and blogger (and gunowner, shooter, hunter etc) whose material I have read pretty regularly for several years now.

Click on through the link below and take a look at the survey. Then take a look below the link for more...

http://ambulancedriverfiles.com/2011/12/11/question-for-the-medics-cops-and-er-nurses/
QUESTION FOR THE MEDICS, COPS AND ER NURSES

I know full well this is another one of those things lots of folks either don't think about, or don't want to think about. But it IS something that does come up on rare occasions.

What happens to you if you're carrying and you get involved in an accident of some sort, or have a sudden onset illness, and wind up unconscious as a result? What happens to your firearm? SOMETHING is going to happen, with medics responding, LE responding, getting treated on the scene, or transported to the ER if necessary.

Have you thought about this at all before now, as unlikely as it is to happen?

It has happened to me... once as a patient, and multiple times as a medic, a good number of years ago.

 

[mljdeckard]

Yes, I have considered it. I once had an old timer emt ask me for advice about carrying, if it was a good idea to do so as a volunteer EMT. It evolved into a conversation about how to deal with guns in an accident scene. We agreed it is probably a good idea for all EMTs to take a hunter's safety or similar course to be able to clear them if they find them, because they can't assume that the next guy to handle them will know what they are doing, and might blow their toes off. He worked an area where most of the calls were to respond to accidents up a canyon that is the biggest hunting range access in the area. He had seen many guns on the side of the road after accidents.

 

[sidheshooter]

Without going into detail, and FWEIW, I was once in a position of being admitted to a hospital while in possession of, ahem, an item that was not normally permitted on the grounds. Being in full command of my faculties (if not in a lot of pain) the ER personel looked the other way, wink nod, as said item went into an overcoat pocket for the duration of my visit. I'm not at all saying that this is normal, just that this is how it played out for me. Such is life.

Darn good question though.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

While NOT an EMT I would consider puting a lock box in the ambulance for such a situation

 

[conw]

A collective sigh of relief is breathed as the board realizes you are not taking a survey on CCWers' ADs

 

[PowerG]

I did have this happen also, sort of LOL.

I was driving on the way to my daughter's softball game (minivan), when a guy pulled out in front of us on the highway in a pick-up, and we T-boned him at about 50-55 mph. It knocked him on out of the highway, into another pick-up that was pulling up to a stop sign. Totalled all three vehicles. (As an aside, this could have easily been an accident with multiple fatalities. There were six people in my van, the guy that pulled out was alone, two in the pick-up at the stop sign. All nine people were wearing seat belts, all nine were able to get out of the vehicles at least mostly under their own power. Seat belts work.)

I had taken my gun off, it was an hour drive to the game, so I had the gun and holster in the center console. Immediately after the accident I was understandably more worried about the occupants of my car, and several minutes were spent getting everybody out. By the time the Highway Patrol arrived, we were all on the side of the road; there were two people (my mother-in-law and my grandson) who appeared to have injuries that were going to require trips to the hospital, and everyone but me had pretty severe bruising from the seat belts. They have had so many serious accidents at this intersection that two ambulances are automatically dispatched as soon as a call comes in, and the Highway Patrolman told me that the ambulances were right behind him, and that another one was a few minutes behind them, since the call said three vehicles were involved. The gas tank on the pick-up I hit had ruptured, and there was gas pouring out, spreading all across the road and into the ditch. Total chaos, multiple LEO's, fire trucks, traffic stopped on the highway, backed up for a mile.

The two ambulances pull up, and the two people requiring them are checked out and loaded up, along with my wife and youngest daughter, who were banged up pretty severely. At this point I inform the LEO that there is a firearm still in the vehicle, and that we need to get it out, as I am going to ride in the third ambulance with my other daughter and I obviously don't want it to leave with the tow truck. He starts to go get it, I tell him it's a 1911 with one in the chamber, and he tells me maybe I better go secure it. I do, and ask him about getting in the ambulance and going to the hospital with it, he says ask the ambulance driver. When I do this, the guy pulls up his shirt, he's carrying a Glock, no problem. When I got to the hospital I had to have precautionary x-rays (I was 18 months out from surgery to repair a spinal fracture and two crushed discs in my neck), so I just put it in my wife's purse, and there it stayed until we left.

 

[scaatylobo]

Been on both sides of this discussion.

As retired LEO,I had to take possession of legal guns from victims AND from arrestees that did not involve the gun taken.

I was involved in a head on and lost short term memory,so I wa told that when the ambulance came I requested the LEO's to take possession of my 'tools'.

I was enroute to a side job at 05:30 and was well healed,got a good deal of teasing about that [ still do,and its 10 years old now ].

BUT as a lifetime member of the N.R.A.,I believe that I am not shocked nor upset about legally armed citizens [ I actually like to see that ].

This subject should be taught at ALL academys and at all medical faculitys.

During a LOD [ line of duty ] injury I was transported to hospital; and the nurse insisted on taking my arms [ yes,more than one ] I kindly informed her that she may be in charge [ her term ] of the E.R..

But if she tried to handle my firearms than I would arrest her for illegal possession of a weapon,that is NYS law.

She waited till another LEO arrived to adjust the matter.

 

[MyGreenGuns]

Interesting thread. I had never thought about what would happen to my firearm during an ambulance ride. I would probably feel as uneasy as when an untrained officer tries to clear my weapon.

If I were really messed up I dont think I would care what happened to my gun. I would rather just hang on to it until my family showed up, but I know that is unlikely.

I read the comments in the article. I couldnt help but think a few things: (Comments from article will be in italics)

They started into a tangent on how guns just "go off" all the time. "Perhaps some firearm education would do well to replace your superstition and ignorance of the subject. You're in a scary world that often is full of guns learning something about safe weapons handling could help minimize your perceived risks." Sounds like something we would say here on THR.

Someone stated that "accidental discharge" is rare and that most of the horror stories were "negligent". I laughed out loud at this "expert": "Sorry Brian there is a brand of weapon out there that has a flaw in it's design. If you touch the triger/safety you could get a AD if you are not Familure with the Colt M-1911 Semi Auto firearm it could AD."

That tangent was ended when someone interjected some logic: "If you pull the trigger of a gun it's doing what it's designed to do.... this seems like a silly argument."

"When we took off the jacket, I saw his SIG in a OWB holster. I asked him about it and he said he had a CHL. I told him I was taking it and simply looked to make sure it was on safe and stuck in my waist band "Mexican carry"." Wait a minute?! He took a holstered weapon from a legally carrying citizen and just stuck it in his pants, "for safety"?

"If the patient refused to allow me to disarm him, I would have to consider that a threat." And he would what .. ? Kill me?

"it's a little difficult for me to answer these, because i never run into anyone with an actual permit. every single firearm that i've come across is illegally carried." I was not too surprised to hear this. LEO and EMT have to deal with the dregs of our society.

 

[MedWheeler]

I've worked in both law enforcement and EMS (still in the latter.) The routine has always been to have the weapon secured by a LEO except in cases in which the sick/injured person is at home or with another responsible person to which he gives permission to secure; then, the weapon was simply secured before transport. To be honest, though, I've not had that many such cases, so not every possible action has been observed or carried out on scenes on which I've been.
I did read that article, or another like it, in an EMS journal somewhere, and agree that it will continue to be an issue that certainly warrants preemptive addressing via training.

 

[Kevin Rohrer]

I don't as this situation has occurred in my area, but am guessing the Dept handling the accident would give the firearm to a family member or friend if one was readily available (and there usually is). If not, the weapon would be secured in Evidence until the owner could get it and a receipt given to the owner.

In both cases, the gun would be unloaded and checked to make sure it wasn't stolen.

 

[PowerG]

The LEO that I talked to about getting the pistol out of the van was very young, early or mid 20's, and when I warned him the gun was Condition 1 he didn't want any part of it.

As for "securing" the pistol, as I was no longer interacting with the LEO, the decision was no longer his, it was the EMT's, the ambulance is owned by a private company. The staff at the hospital seemingly couldn't have cared less. This is, after all, rural Mississippi. I would guess at least some of the nurses were carrying in their purses also.

Checking the serial number of a firearm that was being carried by someone not suspected of a crime would be considered extremely gauche here, I have never seen that done.