If so I misunderstoond, I took it more as a statement along the lines of blaming the medication. There is a small but vocal group today of people from the tom cruise school of thought where mental illness is something that doesn't need medication and its the debil.
Interesting article re the Omaha shooting: blame antidrepressants
- Thread starter TargetTerror
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Slugless
Member
One of the better statements to date. The young man may have had bipolar disorder (manic depression).
- Wikipedia
If he did and was being treated with antidepressants only, the AD could cause him to go into a hyper-manic stage ("I have the power of life and death!"). People in a manic state can do just about anything, the "control" that people are referring to is basically overridden by ego.
Mania requires anti-manic drugs. The treating doctor may not know about the manic symptoms because they are a recent development, the patient may not present with them or the patient lies about the symptoms.
BridgeWalker
Member
You know, I've participated in remarkably similar discussions over on parenting boards with a bunch of hysterical women who think it's child abuse to hire a male babysitter/daycare worker/nanny or to even leave a child alone with a man.
They claim that since the vast majority of sexual predators are men, it must be dangerous to trust a man with your kids.
No, happy people are not mass-murderers. Increasingly, unhappy people are on drugs to remedy their unhappiness. This doesn't mean that either the depression or the drug (or the gun) caused the murder.
And it doesn't mean that mentally ill people are dangerous. It doesn't mean that mentally ill people shouldn't have guns.
Most sexual predators are men. Is it reasonable to cast suspicion over all men?
Most mass-murderers have a mental illness. Is it reasonable to cast suspicion over all people with mental illness?
Is a male rapist a rapist because he is a man, or because he is low-down vicious human being?
Is a mentally ill murderer a murderer because he is depressed, or because he is a low-down vicious human being?
They claim that since the vast majority of sexual predators are men, it must be dangerous to trust a man with your kids.
No, happy people are not mass-murderers. Increasingly, unhappy people are on drugs to remedy their unhappiness. This doesn't mean that either the depression or the drug (or the gun) caused the murder.
And it doesn't mean that mentally ill people are dangerous. It doesn't mean that mentally ill people shouldn't have guns.
Most sexual predators are men. Is it reasonable to cast suspicion over all men?
Most mass-murderers have a mental illness. Is it reasonable to cast suspicion over all people with mental illness?
Is a male rapist a rapist because he is a man, or because he is low-down vicious human being?
Is a mentally ill murderer a murderer because he is depressed, or because he is a low-down vicious human being?
Johnny B
Member
Delta9, you flat nailed it with that one. That was the exact point I was driving at. A couple of my closest friends have bipolar, and they're wonderful, intelligent human beings who care more for people than they know what to do with. They would never harm themselves or anyone else, either on or off their medication. Anecdotal evidence, I know, but personal experience really informs the way we think about issues like this.
By the way, in efficacy trials for bipolar, antidepressants alone perform incredibly poorly. Typically, a mood stabilizer (such as Lithium Bicarbonate) is required to get people back on good footing, and then other drugs are added to the mix to keep people in ship-shape. The drugs aren't typically sedatives that numb the patient, but rather are a means for sufferers of bipolar to get back to normal. I don't care what anyone says, when someone is so depressed that they can't pry themselves from their beds for days or weeks at a time, or when they spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on frivolous things in a matter of days, they are not normal. When properly treated and medicated, bipolar patients get out of bed and go about their days like anyone else, and they don't have the impulses to behave in rash and silly ways.
I guess my point is that while this monster might have been bipolar, it wasn't his mental illness that made him a monster; his extreme maliciousness and selfishness did. For that matter, it wasn't a gun that made him a monster either; the fact that he willingly chose to use it to take the lives of others did.
By the way, in efficacy trials for bipolar, antidepressants alone perform incredibly poorly. Typically, a mood stabilizer (such as Lithium Bicarbonate) is required to get people back on good footing, and then other drugs are added to the mix to keep people in ship-shape. The drugs aren't typically sedatives that numb the patient, but rather are a means for sufferers of bipolar to get back to normal. I don't care what anyone says, when someone is so depressed that they can't pry themselves from their beds for days or weeks at a time, or when they spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on frivolous things in a matter of days, they are not normal. When properly treated and medicated, bipolar patients get out of bed and go about their days like anyone else, and they don't have the impulses to behave in rash and silly ways.
I guess my point is that while this monster might have been bipolar, it wasn't his mental illness that made him a monster; his extreme maliciousness and selfishness did. For that matter, it wasn't a gun that made him a monster either; the fact that he willingly chose to use it to take the lives of others did.
First off: this guy wasn't a teen, he was a young adult - 19. Sure, that's a "teenager" but he's at least a couple months out of the fire at this point (probably a recent graduate). The most common time for mental illness to set in for males is in young adulthood.
Second, from the pictures of the guy, it's evident he was "emo". As someone who had an "emo" brother and was "emo" himself, to some degree, I can honestly say that the depression these people put themselves through is self-inflicted and actually desired; its cool if you're depressed to many of them. Why are they emo? Because they can't get laid. Get a pair! (Do note that he killed quite a few more females than males; I'd guess that might have significance.)
Emo people are the most emotionally unstable (ya think?) people out there, and this guy was likely just a marginally exceptional example of one. The situation of the tribal atmosphere in high school (and immediately after it) only makes that situation worse. I dare say that it's quite possible that the victims deserved what they got, having been on much of the receiving end of such hostilities, and it's possible I'd have gone that route if I'd not had a positive family to back me up. (I'd say it's not likely, but hey, it could've happened. It'd never happen now - I'm an entirely different person.)
Oh yeah, 10-1 odds this guy didn't have a real dad.
Second, from the pictures of the guy, it's evident he was "emo". As someone who had an "emo" brother and was "emo" himself, to some degree, I can honestly say that the depression these people put themselves through is self-inflicted and actually desired; its cool if you're depressed to many of them. Why are they emo? Because they can't get laid. Get a pair! (Do note that he killed quite a few more females than males; I'd guess that might have significance.)
Emo people are the most emotionally unstable (ya think?) people out there, and this guy was likely just a marginally exceptional example of one. The situation of the tribal atmosphere in high school (and immediately after it) only makes that situation worse. I dare say that it's quite possible that the victims deserved what they got, having been on much of the receiving end of such hostilities, and it's possible I'd have gone that route if I'd not had a positive family to back me up. (I'd say it's not likely, but hey, it could've happened. It'd never happen now - I'm an entirely different person.)
Oh yeah, 10-1 odds this guy didn't have a real dad.
That's a good way to put someone in an early grave. Have a good friend who's bipolar and was on lithium bicarbonate for about 3 years; it damaged his organs quite a bit, and while it made him "unbipolar" it made him feel like sh*t. His solution? stop taking his meds and deal with life. Yeah, he's got withdrawn periods. But as others have stated to have found with similar people, he gives one hell of a damn about others when he's not in his depressive stage. A bit openly sadistic, but only playfully so - and he's always doing stuff for others unprovoked.
Johnny B
Member
Like with any medication, proper dosage is imperative to its efficacy and its safety. You can be on lithium indefinitely as long as you have regular blood tests to assure that lithium levels are not exceeding healthy, therapeutically advantageous levels. If the dosage is too high, it can seriously ruin your kidneys. But that's neither here nor there. I'm glad your friend found something that worked for him.
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
The End
Against my better judgement, I wrote a rather involved response, detailing some of my experiences overseas.
As I reviewed it, I realized that a) it would change no one's mind, and b) it was thoroughly off topic.
And so, with that, I deleted it.
I you want to have a clue what kind of stuff I might have written about, please feel free to review some of my earlier postings. There's mention of it there.
For now, though, I have to exercise some self-discipline and refrain from adding to the muddy water already swirling here.
Of course, you all know what I have to do now . . .
Against my better judgement, I wrote a rather involved response, detailing some of my experiences overseas.
As I reviewed it, I realized that a) it would change no one's mind, and b) it was thoroughly off topic.
And so, with that, I deleted it.
I you want to have a clue what kind of stuff I might have written about, please feel free to review some of my earlier postings. There's mention of it there.
For now, though, I have to exercise some self-discipline and refrain from adding to the muddy water already swirling here.
Of course, you all know what I have to do now . . .
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