Adjudicated mentally defective...

Status
Not open for further replies.

9mmforMe

Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2010
Messages
940
Location
IN
Does this mean that a person who has disability benefits from their home-state due to a mental illness would not be able to own a handgun? Bear in mind that they have no criminal history and never have been committed. They simply receive SSI due to a mental illness (such as depression or anxiety disorders).

I used to work in mental health and was wondering about this while talking to a friend/former co-worker.
 
Last edited:
I apologize for posting this in the wrong section and thank you (Mods) for moving it
 
No. Adjudicated mentally defective requires a court order stating such, and usually involves being involuntarily committed to a mental health facility or similar treatment.

Simply receiving SSI benefits due to an illness is not enough to disqualify someone.
 
The Federal definition is in 27 CFR 478.11:

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2009/aprqtr/27cfr478.11.htm

Adjudicated as a mental defective. (a) A determination by a court,
board, commission, or other lawful authority that a person, as a result
of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency,
condition, or disease:
(1) Is a danger to himself or to others; or
(2) Lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs.
(b) The term shall include--
(1) A finding of insanity by a court in a criminal case; and
(2) Those persons found incompetent to stand trial or found not
guilty by reason of lack of mental responsibility pursuant to articles
50a and 72b of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, 10 U.S.C. 850a,
876b.

What you are talking about is disabled... not adjudicated as mental defective.
 
Thanks Kingpin and Navy...I knew I could find the facts here... I appreciate it.
 
THESE ARE NOT THE FACTS

THOSE are found in your state law or health code

You could have been by a competent medical professional, and have been through a proper procedure in the ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURES to get disability. Ask a Lawyer in your state who specializes in Disability law or Gun Law.

The big kickers are Dangerous to self or others (suicide attempts, involuntary for threats/aggression/ danger out others
and Incompetent - - Having a Payee or conservator, but what about a appointed case manager???
 
http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title35/ar47/ch14.html

IC 35-47-14-1
"Dangerous"
Sec. 1. (a) For the purposes of this chapter, an individual is "dangerous" if:
(1) the individual presents an imminent risk of personal injury to the individual or to another individual; or
(2) the individual may present a risk of personal injury to the individual or to another individual in the future and the individual:
(A) has a mental illness (as defined in IC 12-7-2-130) that may be controlled by medication, and has not demonstrated a pattern of voluntarily and consistently taking the individual's medication while not under supervision; or
(B) is the subject of documented evidence that would give rise to a reasonable belief that the individual has a propensity for violent or emotionally unstable conduct.
(b) The fact that an individual has been released from a mental health facility or has a mental illness that is currently controlled by medication does not establish that the individual is dangerous for the purposes of this chapter.
 
Some of this is jurisdiction Dependant.

Pay your money and go see an Attorney. One hour should cover it.

Don't base your potential future to Online legal advice. That can become a very deep black hole.

Go figure.

Fred
 
only if you were involuntarily put in a mental institution would make you mentally defective in owning a firearm not voluntarily.

just cuz you take medication for an illness doesnt make you dangerous to the public safety only if you were arrested and commited to a institution.
 
I have a relative who was involuntarily committed for schizophrenia. In my state, what was the determining factor was whether or not he went before a judge. I think the term is adjudicated. If he would have been discharged from the mental hospital before going before the judge, with a defense attorney, he could still get a permit to buy a gun. Since he did go before a judge, and was recommitted, he can't and a record of same is in his county of residence. He can, at some point in the future, get a psychiatrist or qualified professional to say he is under control by meds or cured or whatever and go before a judge and get the restriction lifted.
 
Samari Jack, A federal mental health firearms disability is permanent and can only be removed if it was issued by the federal government agency (VA, etc..)

The only other way is for a state to establish a "Relief of Disability" program under the guidelines of the NICS Improvement Act of 2007. I am not aware of any that have thus far.


So for all essential purposes, the disability is forever.
 
Not automatically by federal law because there has not been adjudication, a legal proceeding.
But adding them via court is a very strong possibility.

If someone is receiving government money because they are considered to have a mental illness so severe that it reduces normal functioning, then making a case against them being a prohibited person that shouldn't have a gun is almost a slam dunk. That very clearly says "mental defective" under the law and just needs to go to court for it to be declared and become official.
Too extensive of a legal defense that they are not "mentally defective" brings up the question of fraud if they claim not to have the severity of illness they receive money for.

So it means at any time a court could strip the right away at a moment's notice because the case against them already exists and would just need to be acted upon.


Some states under state law are also more restrictive than federal law. So someone could also be considered a prohibited person by a state and not yet meeting the definition of prohibited federally.
For example I know that in California if you are given a 72 hold 5150/Baker Act type of evaluation you are automatically a prohibited person for 5 years.
This can result from nothing more than the declaration of a peace officer (LEO.)
Cops even sometimes take intoxicated individuals to such places just to sober up, especially if they are not guilty of any crime for which they could actually lock them up for. If the police arrived at a home for example where it was legal to be intoxicated, and they wished to arrest someone who had broken no law or if they wished to separate individuals, they may use a psychiatric hold to do so.
So just being drunk could result in a 5 year state level prohibition.
No crime, no adjudication, no court hearing required.
Possessing a firearm after would then be a prohibited person in possession, a state felony, which would then prohibit them for life in the nation.

Lifetime prohibition is only slightly more involved. If someone is brought in on such a temp evaluation and they decide to hold the individual over 72 hours against their will that can be a lifetime prohibition.
Better hope business is not slow for that hospital or they are in danger of laying off employees. They might just decide they need more than 72 hours to evaluate. :neener:

The mental illness avenue is currently the easiest way to remove someone's "right" to firearms.
Many illnesses are themselves discretionary interpretations of the severity of a perceived character defect.
If someone is or has actually been treated for something then it becomes easier to make a case that they suddenly need more treatment, as they have a mental illness record, even though they have broken no laws. That of course can remove firearm rights.
If the issue is considered so severe by the individual as to disable them and require financial assistance, a court of law can say that means any number of things in the future. That the individual needs whatever treatment they declare, or that they are unfit to have or do A B or C.
It would be like a case where the defendant pleads guilty to everything, it is their own actions that say they have a severe problem, in this case pursuing and collecting money for a severe mental illness.
If they claim to not have the problem they sought payment for disability for, they can then be tried for fraud for collecting the money.
 
Last edited:
Some very good information indeed. Thanks guys.

It seems that the type of mental illness would also be a big factor. There are some disorders that are disabling and impair judgement and perception of reality (schizophenia, bi-polar disorder, major depressive disorder to name a few) whereas other disorders can still be crippling but not impair an individual's judgement as acutely (panic disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, social anxiety disorder, chronic phobias). Both sets of people, as just cited, could need public assistance, but not be considered as potentially threatening based on symptomatology, prior history and current level of functioning. Though I am an advocate for the rights of mentally ill people I can clearly see the potential risk society would wish to avoid re: gun ownership. We do however have to be careful of the slippery slope since this could eventually lead to mandating anyone who has any sort of fleeting problem with their mental health to give up their rights because of the symptoms/behavior of those who are much more ill. Its like the antigunners wanting to take away the rights of law abiding citizens (gunowners) due to the fact that there are relatively few (proportionally) who are violent criminal offenders.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top