Advantages of BP guns

[dave951]

To satisfy the desire for cannon pix-

Come shoot with us in the North South Skirmish Association, we don't shoot blanks!

 

[The old gunsmith]

I'd hunt with a flintlock but I live where birdhunting isn't abundant and big game (mule deer and pronghorn) is in open country at long ranges (typically 200 yards). If I was hunting within 100 yards, I'd love to do it with a flintlock. Besides hunting, I'm focused on my skills for defensive purposes and muzzleloaders or black powder of any kind don't really factor into that. I don't shoot recreationally. I can see bp being a lot of fun for recreation or for someone with a more serious approach from a historical perspective. If I were to get into it just for fun, I'd like some flintlock pistols, but the price of a good flintlock is pretty serious just for fun.

Don't underestimate the capabilities of a good BP (muzzleloader or cartridge) rifle and a shooter willing to spend the time and effort to maximize it's performance. A couple years ago, I was at a range playing with a couple of my muzzleloaders and a younger guy was curious what the old girls would do. We moved over to the 300 yard range (longest range they had) and I rang the 6" gong five shots in a row. Needless to say he now has a lot of respect for the accuracy these rifles are capable of. The biggest advantage to hunting with a muzzleloader is that it will make you a better hunter. When you know you have one shot. You have to make it count. You will learn how to close the gap. You said that most shots are 200 yards, a ML will force you to learn to close that gap to under 100. BP is addictive, Once you take your first hit, you are addicted for life. LOL

 

[gtrgy888]

I have several BP guns and several cartridge guns. I am finding over the years, BP gives many advantages, but not many folks show up at the range with BP guns. I wonder about it.

*I can change loadings on the spot. The rammer is my loading press and an adjustable measure is always handy

*My musket shoots ball, slug, buck, bird shot

*My flint fires without primers. For it, only a piece of flint - a common rock - or even an agate is needed and these materials are on the frigging ground, almost anywhere

*It will take a bird or a squirrell, rabbit, deer, elk, bear, anything and everything short of a whale if you load for it

*I can cast my own projectiles from salvaged lead any time I want, even over a campfire or in the garage, swanshot too

*Cleaning solvent consists of soap and water easy to find and basically cheap and non-toxic

*Tallow, shortening, canola oil, beeswax, lanolin, etc all of it works in the bore, just wash, dry, and coat it.

*I can shoot a lot for very little cost

*I can make accessories out of sticks, bones, antler, scrap leather, scrap cloth, old metal, just about anything

*BP shooters seem to be generally talkative, traders, willing to teach and share info with others. They are most often the best folks on the range

I can probably list dozens of advantages, yet I see very few BP shooters at the range these days. I am not an inline-gunner, give me the sidelocks and the old revolvers. I worry that BP sports will one day fade away permanently.

I don’t think the BP shooting sport is going anywhere. The biggest advantage I find is that I can shoot just about any gun I pick up easily to a high standard. It’s a basic principle of martial practice that training with disadvantages makes it easier to operate with those disadvantages removed. Those who can do the job empty handed do even better with a stick, better yet with a knife or machete, with even more advantages given a revolver, semiauto, shotgun, or rifle. Since I train to develop skills rather than bolster my ego, I get much more out of training the fundamentals of shooting to a high degree with a BP revolver one shot at a time than I probably would emptying multiple Glock magazines and barely paying attention to whether I hit anything, which is embarrassingly typical for most modern shooters. I don’t shoot many rounds when I go out, but nearly every bullet hits where I mean it to. Today I plinked 11 tiny bottles with 15 shots of .31 and went home. Took almost no time at all and the gun cleaned up with just water, soap, and cooking oil.

 

[dave951]

I don’t think the BP shooting sport is going anywhere. The biggest advantage I find is that I can shoot just about any gun I pick up easily to a high standard. It’s a basic principle of martial practice that training with disadvantages makes it easier to operate with those disadvantages removed. Those who can do the job empty handed do even better with a stick, better yet with a knife or machete, with even more advantages given a revolver, semiauto, shotgun, or rifle. Since I train to develop skills rather than bolster my ego, I get much more out of training the fundamentals of shooting to a high degree with a BP revolver one shot at a time than I probably would emptying multiple Glock magazines and barely paying attention to whether I hit anything, which is embarrassingly typical for most modern shooters. I don’t shoot many rounds when I go out, but nearly every bullet hits where I mean it to. Today I plinked 11 tiny bottles with 15 shots of .31 and went home. Took almost no time at all and the gun cleaned up with just water, soap, and cooking oil.

I couldn't agree more. I often see folks cranking that trigger from 7yd and struggle to hit a plate from 25yd. Shooting black powder can seriously hone your skills and those skills directly transfer to modern arms. On more than one occasion, I've been out practicing with my musket and ended the day with an AK or AR taking offhand head shots with iron sights at 200+yd on the tacticool targets. Keep the fundamentals honed, and all you have to worry about is speed with the modern stuff.

 

[drobs]

One aspect of black powder I like is the lack of precision needed to load with it. It doesn't require the precision that smokeless powder requires where one grain too much could destroy a firearm.

 

[doubleh]

I enjoy shooting BP guns but the only time I see anyone at the range doing so is just before muzzle loader season and it's modern inline rifles. Shooting black powder guns is a slow process and involves more work than cartridge guns, both of which aren't looked on favorably by younger shooters. Then throw in the work of cleaning after ever shooting session makes it even less desirable. Then there are those that say it is nasty and stinks. Not a recipe to attract a lot of modern shooters.

 

[hawg]

I'd rather clean bp than smokeless. I rarely even clean a smokeless gun. I mostly just wipe them down with an oily rag. Cleaning bp is a lot faster and easier.

 

[45 Dragoon]

I'd rather clean bp than smokeless. I rarely even clean a smokeless gun. I mostly just wipe them down with an oily rag. Cleaning bp is a lot faster and easier.

Than wiping down a cartridge gun?!!! Lol

Mike

 

[hawg]

Than wiping down a cartridge gun?!!! Lol

Mike

I do a full cleaning on cartridge guns now and then. Cleaning a bp gun is certainly easier than that.

 

[Mike OTDP]

Shooting black powder guns is a slow process and involves more work than cartridge guns, both of which aren't looked on favorably by younger shooters. Then throw in the work of cleaning after ever shooting session makes it even less desirable.

Is it really slower? I suspect that if you add up the time involved in reloading cartridges, a muzzle-loader isn't that far behind.

And there are a range of tricks of the trade for cleaning. It's still a PITA, but not nearly as much of one as people like to think.

 

[hawg]

Is it really slower? I suspect that if you add up the time involved in reloading cartridges, a muzzle-loader isn't that far behind.

And there are a range of tricks of the trade for cleaning. It's still a PITA, but not nearly as much of one as people like to think.

If you do a full clean on cartridge guns it takes longer and costs more than cleaning a bp gun. It you call a wipe down with an oily rag cleaning then smokeless is faster.

 

[doubleh]

Is it really slower? I suspect that if you add up the time involved in reloading cartridges, a muzzle-loader isn't that far behind.

And there are a range of tricks of the trade for cleaning. It's still a PITA, but not nearly as much of one as people like to think.

Come on, you knew that I meant putting shots down range plus many people just use factory ammo and don't ever intend to reload. Cleaning a BP gun is simple and easy but it needs to be done right after shooting and the lazy factor enters into that with many shooters which is just another turn off to shooting BP for them. It's the "roundtuit" thing. I'll do do it when I get around to it and that doesn't work well at all with BP arms..

 

[hawg]

. Cleaning a BP gun is simple and easy but it needs to be done right after shooting

Not really. I live in the humid south and I often go two or three days before cleaning. I have gone as many as nine days after shooting Pyrodex and it's supposed to be so bad it will dissolve your gun if left overnight.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Agree with Hawg, I live in a low humidity, high temperature area and have forgot to clean some of my stuff after a range session. No ill effects from Pyrodex at all. Forgot to clean one of my rifles for over a month and it didn't dissolve.

 

[hawg]

Normally after I shoot a gun I'll leave it out somewhere I can see it and when I feel like it I'll clean it. The worst thing I've ever done is I had an Investarms .50 Hawken. I was out back shooting it when my wife came out and told me one of our friends was in the hospital and we had to go. I should have left it by the back door but I didn't. I wasn't thinking and put it up. Well I forgot about it. I took out guns close to it and never noticed anything. Two maybe three months later I got it out and there was rust in the bore. There was a little rust on the nipple and snail. The snail cleaned up with no bluing loss. The bore after cleaning had minor pitting all the way down but it still shot as good as it ever did.

 

[doubleh]

Well, it belongs to you so clean it when you want. I'll stick with my method which I do after shooting and be done with it. Frankly, as forgetful as I've become if I don't leave something out where I'll trip over it I may forget about it for months.

 

[Jeff62]

When I was a child I sniffed something in the air at Siver Dollar City, a coal forge at the blacksmith shop. I knew what it was without a frame of reference. The same with black powder at the Ozark Folk Center in Mountain View, Arkansas. Back in the 1970’s they let kids shoot black powder rifles out the windows at targets behind the gunsmith shop. I blasted away with a muzzleloader and was hooked. Now that I am retired gentry I tend to cinch on my Uberti 1860 Army when taking a turn about the hinterlands. I just like it.
Also, I have a fully equipped blacksmith shop. Some stuff just sticks to you.

 

[Mike OTDP]

Frankly, as forgetful as I've become if I don't leave something out where I'll trip over it I may forget about it for months.

That's how I do it. I might leave a gun dirty today...but only because I plan to take it out and shoot again tomorrow. After which it will be scrubbed thoroughly.

 

[hawg]

That's how I do it. I might leave a gun dirty today...but only because I plan to take it out and shoot again tomorrow. After which it will be scrubbed thoroughly.

That's why I don't. I never know if I'll take it back out in the next few days.

 

[Mike OTDP]

I’m on a pretty aggressive training schedule.

 

[4v50 Gary]

I have no skills at knaping but I have a few different kinds of Dimond saws. Rocks that will work are allover. Iron pyrite is easy to find for a wheel lock. Now sulfur is tricky.

Get glasses, and start whacking. It just takes practice.

My standing joke is that a flintlock pistol, especially a smoothbore dueller, is a postgraduate education in shooting technique.

Certainly. More follow-up with the lower velocity of black powder guns (and sometimes delayed ignition.

When I was a child I sniffed something in the air at Siver Dollar City, a coal forge at the blacksmith shop. I knew what it was without a frame of reference. The same with black powder at the Ozark Folk Center in Mountain View, Arkansas. Back in the 1970’s they let kids shoot black powder rifles out the windows at targets behind the gunsmith shop. I blasted away with a muzzleloader and was hooked. Now that I am retired gentry I tend to cinch on my Uberti 1860 Army when taking a turn about the hinterlands. I just like it.
Also, I have a fully equipped blacksmith shop. Some stuff just sticks to you.

That was an awesome childhood experience! When I moved out to the country, one of the things I wanted was to be able to poke a gun barrel out the window and chute. Never did it, but at least I can now. BTW, when I cut the extractor slot for a 10/22 barrel, it was tested by stepping outside, chambering and firing off a mag into the dirt. I couldn't do that in the big city but it's quite OK in the country. I told my teacher and intially he was shocked and then he realized, "Oh you live in the country."

 

[reloc]

They're fun to shoot, and you can feel like pirate - especially with max loads. Plus you spend more time at range at sunny days. You put some effort loading , so you also put more effort for target shooting.

And the best part is, you don't need any permit for BP guns here. So its a great starting point.

 

[armoredman]

Poland? Never been there, always wanted to visit, heard lots of good things about your beautiful country. Do you have black powder re-enactors over there? All ours are either mountain men or Civil War.

 

[reloc]

Beautiful yes, but with rainy weather these days.
We have black powder re-enactors, sure. They're mostly historic groups ,related to January Uprising against Russian Empire in 19th century , where Colt Navy 1851 and Colt Root was used by Polish military.

 

[woodnbow]

Get glasses, and start whacking. It just takes practice.



Certainly. More follow-up with the lower velocity of black powder guns (and sometimes delayed ignition.


That was an awesome childhood experience! When I moved out to the country, one of the things I wanted was to be able to poke a gun barrel out the window and chute. Never did it, but at least I can now. BTW, when I cut the extractor slot for a 10/22 barrel, it was tested by stepping outside, chambering and firing off a mag into the dirt. I couldn't do that in the big city but it's quite OK in the country. I told my teacher and intially he was shocked and then he realized, "Oh you live in the country."

I may have told this story here before so if I have, tough luck. The older I get the more I ramble on. (and the more I repeat myself.)

Years ago, I was in my late twenties and we had little kids at home… my wife woke me one fine winters morning to tell me there were Elk on her haystack. (I grew it and baled it, and the elk made claims against it every winter but she was an endurance racer and trainer and somehow they became “her” haystacks.) At any rate, DOW issued depredation tags for folks in our situation and she knew I had a pocketful. “Shoot them!” She directed. So I stumbled over to the rack and took down my 99 Savage. Quietly opened the window, slid the rifle out and resting on the sill I drew a bead on what I took to be the lead cow and dropped her. They began to mill around like they will when they’re caught in the open and not sure what or where the problem is. I shot and dropped 3 more and then stopped. “Why did you stop shooting?! There are more out there!” My lovely bride… Told her, “I have four on the ground and I haven’t even put on my pants. I have work to do.” Dad was still alive and he, my Uncle and my brother came over to help with the cows. We had a cooler then so three were gutted and hung and my brother and I butchered the youngest one that morning, tenderloins and eggs for breakfast. Don’t believe there’s anything finer. Those were some grand times.