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Adventure Outdoors vs Michael Bloomberg and NYC

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AdvOut

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May 12, 2008
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Hello guys, my father owns Adventure Outdoors and we are eagerly anticipating our case at the end of this month in New York City. We have set up a website for the latest news of the case and also for contributions from the gun industry family to contribute to our case. It is truly a David vs Goliath case. We are fighting this not only for our livelihood but for the industry as a whole.

WWW.Bloombergfightbackfund.COM


If you have any questions about our shop or the case I will do my best to answer them
 
this forum is pretty fast. We need you guys support.
 
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Write the NRA and ask why they havent helped us with lawyers
On your website, it indicates that they gave you guys a thousand dollars- that's a lot more than they give many people. They are also giving the anti-Bloomberg issue a lot of space in their publications, especially 1st Freedom.
They could give more, BUT, they are helping you a bit.

That said, I am rooting for you guys all the way. The only downside is that you got caught up in this mess at all.
 
the NRA did send us $1,000, and we greatly appreciate it. However over 1,000,000 has already been spent in legal fees to fight this cancer before it spreads. I think most would agree that it would be in the best interest of the industry to stop Bloomberg sooner than later. 1,000,000$ is a tough amount to swallow for a mom n pop single store gun retailer
 
Write the NRA and ask why they havent helped us with lawyers

Maybe some other time. I wish you well but I can't help noticing that you joined the forum today and the only messages you've posted urge people to send you money.

I've known quite a few people like that, including a cousin of sorts. Nobody in the family ever heard of Sean O'Hairless or even knew of his existence until he got into some kind of serious trouble. Then he appeared on somebody's doorstep and asked for money to help keep the family from disgrace. He was given a relatively large sum.

Several months afterwards he was back again, this time cursing the person who gave it to him. "You ingrate," said that charitable family member, "I gave you money just a few months ago."

"Sure you did," said Sean, "but what have you done for me lately?"

On your web site you list the NRA as one of the top five donors to your fund. Then you join this forum to start a campaign to get the NRA to give you lawyers too. Why not just show up at NRA headquarters and start picketing the place to embarrass them more?

By the way, are you an active NRA member and did you contribute to the NRA/ILA? Sean O'Hairless wasn't and didn't.
 
I see what you are saying, and understand where you are coming from. My father has been trying to get the word out as much as possible. I am a member of several car forums on the net and recently figured there would be gun forums to post in to get the word out. Word of mouth as far as our case goes is the biggest thing I am trying to get out. The ATF is really hurting us, here is an article that was recently posted on a gun affiliated website



The entire pro-gun community is aware of Mayor Bloomberg of New York City’s lawsuit against licensed FFLs - the lawsuit that was a result of his sending private investigators to their stores to break the law and then try and sue them for it.

You may or may not know that as of right now, there is basically one last shop standing that is refusing to give into the bullying by Mayor Bloomberg and his cronies. Adventure Outdoors is still fighting the original lawsuit, as well as having filed a counter-suit, suing Mayor Bloomberg for defamation.

The ATF throwing Adventure Outdoors under the bus pertains to the original case, which is still being fought in court. Earlier in the year, Adventure Outdoors had subpoenaed three BATFE agents to be deposed in regards to the case pending against Adventure Outdoors. After the initial subpoenas were withdrawn, the BATFE “agreed” to allow the agents to be deposed in written question - now BATFE is going back on that agreement and has filed motions to exempt the agents from their written depositions.

For the particulars, you can read the entire motion as filed by BATFE in pdf format, pay special attention to page 8 of 20, where the lawyers for ATF say the following:

In evaluating the burden to ATF, the Court should consider the “cumulative” impact on ATF, i.e., the likelihood that ATF would be burdened with request for deposition testimony in other cases.

Slightly further down that same page, you find this:

ATF properly determined that the burdens to ATF from having the ATF employees respond to written questions outweighs any benefit to Adventure Outdoors.

Essentially, ATF is saying to Adventure Outdoors (and all FFLs in general) that our time is more important that your livelihood. Because that’s what we’re talking about here - the method that the owners and employees of this gun shop use to put food on the table is at stake, but ATF thinks that the cost of losing two special agents for a day “outweighs any benefit to Adventure Outdoors”.

That would be bad enough in and of itself - but to add more wood to the fire, Adventure Outdoors isn’t just any old gun shop. According to sources, Adventure Outdoors has on at least 11 different occasions gone above and beyond the letter of the law, and gone out of their way to work with and provide ATF with information on possible straw purchases. AO could have just refused the sale, and simply obeyed the letter of the law - but instead they have gone beyond their legal commitment and actively aided the ATF in the past. So now when all Adventure Outdoors wants to do is depose ATF agents and get factual statements out of them, ATF doesn’t have the time to testify. It sends a bad message to FFLs - ATF is basically saying that “even if you help us, we’re still not going to lift a finger to help you”.

The “cherry on the sundae” ultimately is that Mayor Bloomberg has been trashing the ATF in his press conferences - saying that “ATF needs assistance from the City of New York…to monitor or supervise Adventure Outdoors in its sale of firearms”, implying that ATF can’t do its job. Being deposed by Adventure Outdoors would have given ATF an opportunity to do a couple of things: 1) Defend themselves from Bloomberg’s baseless accusations, and 2) establish some good credit with FFLs.

With regards to number 2, it’s no secret that there are lot of people who feel like the ATF is out to get law-abiding dealers with ticky-tac violations and legal harassment techniques. By refusing to allow their special agents to be deposed, ATF is sending another bad message to the law-abiding firearms dealers: “Even if you help us, we’re not going to help you.” Adventure Outdoors had in the past gone above and beyond their legal obligation and assisted ATF, and this is the “thanks” they receive.

With behavior like this, it’s no wonder that more and more, FFLs and gun owners are assuming that the ATF isn’t interested in enforcing the law, but rather in shutting down licensees across the country. That’s essentially what’s at stake here for Adventure Outdoors - their business and livelihood. I don’t run a gun shop - but if I did, I’d think twice about going above and beyond to help them. I’d stick to the letter of the law, stay perfectly legal, but I wouldn’t do any extra work to help out ATF. Not if this is how they treat law-abiding firearms dealers.

Contact your Congressional representative and urge them to co-sponsor HR 4900, the BATFE Reform Bill.
 
to answer your question about the current NRA member. My brother is a member as well as my father. I have paid dues at the buck-a-rama for several 1 year memberships but I do not believe my dues are current
 
2nd post edited. I can see where it would be taken as a negative spin on the NRA. This thread isnt meant to be negative, its to get the word out about the case thats coming up in less than three weeks. Thanks for the support guys
 
I have been in this store. It's not a big superstore, but they had a lot of stock, and good prices. They are right down the street from my sister, in Smyrna (Atlanta), GA.
The owner was quoted in the Atlanta Journal as saying "I will pawn everything I own to fight this" (paraphrased)
Look a little harder at what this is about, guys. These are the last ones standing, trying to fight NEW YORK CITY, and a lot of other backers. Talk about David and Goliath.
The NRA is probably the only group big enough to help.

Bloomberg (NYC Mayor) is blaming these guys (and several other gun stores that either gave in to the pressure or lost their livelyhood fighting) for crime that happens in HIS City! It's nuts, and wrong.
 
Look a little harder at what this is about, guys. These are the last ones standing, trying to fight NEW YORK CITY, and a lot of other backers. Talk about David and Goliath.

+1

This all goes back to Bloomberg sending people in undercover to attempt straw purchases in the store. These are the only guys standing up to this where others in the area that were also targeted have settled with Bloomberg (and I will NEVER go into those stores to buy anything again).

These guys are fighting the good fight...it's a great store with good people and we should all support them if we can.
 
Good luck.

I can't send you any money, because I've got my own problems. (Took an important job for my career, but it pays far less then my old job.)

But I wish you well and keep us updated on how it goes. Bloomberg needs to go.
 
to answer your question about the current NRA member. My brother is a member as well as my father. I have paid dues at the buck-a-rama for several 1 year memberships but I do not believe my dues are current

I have no idea what the "buck-a-rama" might be. Don't you feel at least a little awkward about asking for help from the NRA or anyone else when you don't care enough about the Second Amendment or giving help to even spend the $35 it takes to keep an annual membership current? I'd be embarrassed. Are you sure you're not a member of the O'Hairless branch of the family? You sound awfully like my distant cousins MeMe and Iwanna.

I've been in your family's store and enjoyed some afternoon hours there, so I'm at least casually familiar with it. I'm more than casually familiar with what Michael Bloomberg does. So, although you have no reason to think so yet, I'm thoroughly on your side and against his.

I'd have that same position even if I hadn't been in the store and had no interest in guns. Bullies and tyrants must be opposed.

But you need to get your own act together. If you want support stop being ungrateful when you get it. If you need more support, demonstrate your willingness to give it to others. And if you're calling for fraternal assistance, show that you share it.

I won't call on the NRA to provide you with lawyers. Robert Barr is your lawyer. He needs to ask. But I will contribute some money.
 
I'm not sure who Sean Ohairless is and I'm not sure exactly what he did. We didnt go out and do something stupid and now need peoples help to get us out of the mess we caused for ourselves. This lawsuit is something that a mayor of a city that is 800 miles away decided to spring upon us out of the blue. I'm not sure how you can equate someone in your family that got in trouble with the law to a law abiding gun store that gets sued out of the blue for nothing more than political grandstanding by a billionaire mayor.

Thanks for being on our side. We appreciate and need all the support we can get, but comparing us to your family member is something that I dont feel is a fair comparison.
 
I wish you the best of luck

You may also want to stop by AR-15.com

Second, you may have more luck if you asked us to call our representatives, or especially if you gave us a quick 2 paragraph summary of what is going on, and what your key points to bring up would be. A new member asking for money ONLY is a little odd.

Don't take this the wrong way, but there are scammers everywhere. Seeing all these nigerian princes with money tied up in customs makes me think it would be pretty easy to set up a website related to a big law case and get people to 'donate' and in the end find out it isn't connected at all.
 
Not really on topic, but I have purchased many firearms from AdvOut in Smryna (I work right down the street). Also bought a safe there. Great place, with an awesome selection!
 
This smells a little fishy.

The AdvOut.com domain name is registered to Joe Brown of Smyrna, GA.
http://www.networksolutions.com/whois/results.jsp?domain=advout.com

The bloombergfightbackfund.com domain is registered through Domain Discreet, a company that provides privacy and annonymity to domain holders, and has existed since July 06 (timing sounds right), and expires in July 08. Now, the email on the site there does seem to be legit back to [email protected], but I'm not sure why the Domain Discreet if they have nothing to hide. I mean, it's not exactly a secret that AdvOut is assocaited with this, right? And I couldn't find a link on AdvOut's site back to ww.bloombergfightbackfund.com. I want to hope it's legit, but as was stated previously, when someone posts for the very first time on a board, and they're looking for money, it's a little suspicious. Having the same registrar info as the advout.com domain would've made the site sound much more legit.

I don't know if I will contribute cash through that site, but I'll see what else I can do to help out.
 
I have been a customer of this store in the past and can assure this is legit. Being from Georgia this is a case I have been following closely for a while. I think AdvOut's posts are a little awkward in their timing and tone but this is a case that deserves national attention. Having purchased guns from them I have found them to be extremely thorough and find it difficult to believe anyone could accuse them of knowingly allowing straw purchases to occour.
 
Joe Brown was our former IT administrator. That is interesting that the site is registered to him. I'll make sure and give my pops a heads up on that.
 
This is beyond legit.

These are the guys in the Phillipines trying to hold off the Japanese by themselves.

Bloomberg broke the law by sending in people to make illegal straw purchases.
Bloomberg committed a criminal act and should be brought up on charges for it.

These guys, and I have bought there, go through a more detailed document check than anybody I know of. They were lied to by Bloomberg's criminal associates.

Ruger, Glock, S&W, Taurus and all the others should have already given these guys at least 1 mil.

I have, in their store, done what I can.

This is a fight for right vs evil.

This is the real deal, and anyone living outside of Georgia, or not familiar with the case, needs to find out the truth. It is past time to join the battle.
 
Can donations be made in your name to the SAF or JPFO? My wife does not complain when donations are tax deductions...

- Sig
 
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