Advice for 1883 Double Barrel Hammerless Shotgun & 1887 Lever Action Winchesters

[USMC - Mott]

Hello - I recently bought an 1883 Colt Double Barrel Hammerless and a couple of 1887 Winchester Lever Action 12 & 10 Guage shotguns. The Colt and 12 Guage have Demascus finish on the barrels. These are antique but in excellent collector condition. I would like to shoot these a couple of times before passing them on. All of these shotguns are case hardened. My local gunsmith advised me to not shoot these guns with modern ammunition. Does anybody have any experience with this and have an opinion whether or not to fire these shotguns with modern ammunition?
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[PapaG]

Good advice. They were originally built for black powder.

 

[herrwalther]

Too old for modern ammo. 12 and 10ga is pretty easy to make black powder loads with. There are several videos and instructions online to do so. The Winchester 1883, not so much. Depending on the caliber yours is chambered in you can buy factory ammo still made for it if it is common enough among cowboy action shooters. Or invest in the equipment to load it yourself.

 

[Jim Watson]

I would like to shoot these a couple of times before passing them on.

My recommendation is to get over that and go ahead and flip them.

 

[USMC - Mott]

Thanks to all!

 

[USMC - Mott]

I haven't given up the ghost on the 3 shotguns I mentioned at the beginning of this post. I would like to re-load some hulls with black powder and shoot the 1883 Colt. My gunsmith says that the only way I could possibly do this safely is to have a Magaflux test done on the barrels. Does anybody know a company I can ship this to and have this test done? Thanks in advance......

 

[Catpop]

I haven't given up the ghost on the 3 shotguns I mentioned at the beginning of this post. I would like to re-load some hulls with black powder and shoot the 1883 Colt. My gunsmith says that the only way I could possibly do this safely is to have a Magaflux test done on the barrels. Does anybody know a company I can ship this to and have this test done? Thanks in advance......

Could not a engine shop perform this test just as they do on engine blocks and cylinder heads to check for cracks.

 

[hawg]

The 1887 has a 2 5/8 chamber. I got one when I was 11. I grew up shooting 2 3/4 smokeless loads out of it because I didn't know any better. Now I cut down 2 3/4 shells to about two inches and use black powde. I would do the same with the Colt but under no circumstances would I use smokeless. The Colt chamber is 2 7/8.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I do not know about the Colt, but the 1887 lever action Winchester shotgun was not proofed for smokeless ammunition.

Magnafluxing will not find every small weakness that may be in the welds in a Damascus barrel. The way Damascus barrels were made, when the steel was twisted and welded there were many, many feet of welds in the finished barrel. The barrel would then have been proofed. However in the intervening years since the barrel was made, there is no way to tell if corrosion has set into the welds. Magnafluxing will not be able to tell.

The only way to find out if a Damascus barrel is still safe is to proof it again with a proof load. The barrel will either survive or it will not.

 

[paul harm]

Those guns don't have a Damascus finish, they are Damascus barreled guns. It's sounds like your gunsmith has limited knowledge about Damascus barrels. At this time I shoot 10 different Damascus barreled SxSs - Parkers, Remingtons, and a Lefever. Been doing it from around 2005 and in that time maybe another 30 or 40 guns with Damascus barrels. BP at times but 95% of the time with nitro loads. The British have always proofed and shot Damascus barreled guns. They never got the bad reputation they did over here. Sherman Bell a couple of years back tried to blow up in two different test, 40 " Damascus wall hangers " with Remington proof loads of 18,500psi and couldn't do it. I keep my reloads to under 9000psi out of respect for 100+ year old stocks.
To answer your question, BP has a much bigger range of powder and still be safe to shoot. I've loaded from 70grs of 3F to 105grs of 2F.That's in the 12ga with 7/8, 1oz, or 1 1/8oz loads. In the 10ga I like for claybirds, 80grs of 2F and 1oz of shot. An adjustable powder/shot measure is usually used. You set it for the dram load you want and both the shot and powder is measured with it without changing anything. Shot and powder, by volume, is used. These can be bought from Precision Reloading or Ballistic Products. You'll also want to use fiber wads, not plastic. They'll melt in the barrel leaving a mess to clean.
Forget the Magnafluxing. I've put on a SxS event since 2005 and about half the guys shoot Damascus barrel guns. I don't know of anyone who has had their barrels magnafluxed. New ammo of any kind is hard to find but there are low pressure, low recoil shells out there. Also target loads at 1200fps or less. Some of those dove loads are up around 1500fps and it takes more powder/pressure to get shot to travel that fast.
You could go to the Parker web site, www.parkerguns.org, and in their reloading forum there's a treasure fold of information for tested nitro loads, or info on BP loads. Good luck.