Advice for a 6.5 build

Status
Not open for further replies.
N

NateG

Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
175
Location
Centreville, VA
I've got a vz-24 mauser someone sporterized (reasonably well) and rebarrelled to .30-06. However, I think the chamber's a bit oversized (brass shows stretching just above the case head even with mild loads, but the headspace is within specs), so I'm thinking I'll turn it into a project gun. Also, I've been really impressed with my swede mauser and the 6.5 swede, so here's the question:

Which 6.5mm cartridge would y'all recommend: 6.5x55, 6.5-06, .260 (I'm leaning against this one, as it's a long action), 6.5x57? or another one? I handload, so obscurity isn't too much of a problem, though barrel life if particularly short would be a consideration.

What would be a reasonable high-end for the 6.5x55 in a 98 action?

The gun would see most of it's use at the range, but I'd take it hunting once in a while, too. (whitetail)

Thanks,
Nate
 
Long action...I would say 6.5-06(guess I don't have to ask if you're a reloader)...great velocity and 25-06 brass abounds...I would if I had the gun and money
 
I would say

6.5x55 AI

Gets rid of some of the taper.

6.5-06 would be neat too.

6.5-284 is quite popular as well (though not the best on barrel life)
 
you know what would be sweet to see, a modern rifle chambered for 6.5 jap, which is basically a 6.5 x50 round. So aerodynamic, yet so mild. Or the Carcano round, which is a 6.5 x 52.
 
However, I think the chamber's a bit oversized (brass shows stretching just above the case head even with mild loads, but the headspace is within specs),
Click to expand...

If the headspace is within spec, I'm guessing that you are seeing a shiny area that starts at the case head and maybe goes 1/8-1/4" up the case? If so, it just means the chamber is a bit generous but won't hurt anything- just neck size the cases or use a standard FL die for resizing (not a Small base die)
 
The 6.5 x 06 is a dandy!! Just got one last year and it shoots like a dream with 140g SST's by Hornady. Can't wait to set the crosshairs on a deer!

Best ............. Mike
 
NateG,

I would go with a 6.5x55. I had a custom built LR rifle built around this cartridge, and I can safely send a 142SMK at 2950fps for 1,000 yard competition. The advantage of the 6.5x55 is that quality brass (Lapua and Norma) are readily available.

Don
 
If the headspace is within spec, I'm guessing that you are seeing a shiny area that starts at the case head and maybe goes 1/8-1/4" up the case? If so, it just means the chamber is a bit generous but won't hurt anything
Click to expand...

Yup. Exactly. Also, the neck of the chamber is a bit big, too. Using a lee neck-sizer by itself doesn't size the neck down enough to keep a bullet from falling into the case during seating, or falling out. (Though the die works just fine on brass from any other '06 I've used it with, so methinks the chamber isn't quite right)

USSR,
How's the case life with that load? I've heard that the 6.5x55 tends to expand a bit much at the modern pressure levels. My only experience with the 6.5x55 is in a target version of the Swede mauser, so my loads are quite light, and the brass lasts a nice long time. I've definitely got my eye on a 6.5x55 at some point. Maybe if I get my hands on a yugo action sometime since it's not big enough for the '06 (if I remember correctly) I'm thinking if I've got the length already, I might as well use it. Hmm... but the extra space around the shorter cartridge would give more leeway with bullet seating... hmmm... Have you used the 6.5x55AI? That seems like an interesting idea. But if the swede doesn't kill brass too badly... Decisions, decisions
 
260 (I'm leaning against this one, as it's a long action)
Click to expand...
That might be a good idea. I have a Mauser converted to 7.62x51 (old Israeli), same case length as .260 (6.5x51), and it has occasional feed problems.

I can't make a recommendation, though. The only 6.5 I have is a 6.5x55 Swede Mauser, and it shoots great. I don't have experience with the 6.5x63 or 6.5x57.

Regards.
 
Scratch the 6.5-06.
The cartridge is about 4mm too long to be effectively utilized in the Military Mauser actions.
There are loading issues with cartridges this long and forget using the stripper clips and guide.
Probably won't be a major issue with bullet deformation in the magazine due to recoil forces causing the bullet noses to impact against the front of the magazine box but it would concern me to know for sure BEFORE I begin the rebarrel.

The 6.5X55 is as common as about any of the other obscure calibers so finding loaded ammunition won't be a major headache.
Sometimes feeding becomes sticky and erratic because the cartridge is shorter than what the action was designed for.
Biggest sticking point I have with Mauser actions is they were really designed to be optimum with cartridges that fall pretty much exactly into the original cartridge specifications called for with a particular action.

6.5X57,,,,,possibilities here if you are a handloader.
A much better feeding cartridge in the longer 98 type actions and you can boost velocities over anything considered safe for the 6.5X55 in a 96 action.
8mm Mauser brass should be easy to reform but remember to anneal the cases after forming so the neck doesn't split after a couple loadings.
This choice would also be mine for the project you are contemplating.
 
How's the case life with that load? I've heard that the 6.5x55 tends to expand a bit much at the modern pressure levels. My only experience with the 6.5x55 is in a target version of the Swede mauser, so my loads are quite light, and the brass lasts a nice long time. I've definitely got my eye on a 6.5x55 at some point. Maybe if I get my hands on a yugo action sometime since it's not big enough for the '06 (if I remember correctly) I'm thinking if I've got the length already, I might as well use it. Hmm... but the extra space around the shorter cartridge would give more leeway with bullet seating... hmmm... Have you used the 6.5x55AI? That seems like an interesting idea. But if the swede doesn't kill brass too badly...
Click to expand...

NateG,

Well, I've reloaded the Lapua brass 4 or 5 times, and it's still GTG. Have not used the Norma brass I've got yet, but have heard it's a bit softer. As you know, factory 6.5x55 ammo is deliberately loaded down because there are still single lug Norweigan Krags out there. Since you are using a 98 Mauser action, you can load your ammo to normal pressures. Absolutely no need to AI this cartridge. It is capable of 2950fps with RL22 powder, and this is the same velocity that most 6.5-.284 LR shooters strive for.

Don
 
6.5x55

The Lapua brass is almost enough to make 6.5x55 worth it alone.

You know, you don't have to load to the OAL published in a book. Just do it safely (off the rifling). My 6.5x55 loads are just a tad short of 30-06 OAL, and they still fit in the M96 mag box (go figure). I wouldn't say that 6.5x55 is too short for reliable feeding in a 98 action, just load it longer.

The Swede doesn't kill brass. You can get sticky bolts with hotter loads. The AI just cuts down on the stretching and gives you little extra velocity. This is nice because it'll cut down on the need for trimming. Is it worth having done to a nice 6.5x55? Not at all. However, if you're building a new rifle, just something to consider (just a different reamer).

and you can boost velocities over anything considered safe for the 6.5X55 in a 96 action.
Click to expand...
If you were building on a M96 action this might be a concern. 6.5x57 would be limited the same way on a 96 action. Does anybody make 6.5x57 brass?

Also, what makes the M96 action so weak?
 
Based on your comments about not wanting a longer action, doing your own loading, and liking the 6.5x55 you may want to look at the 6.5 Grendel which is 6.5x39 and shaped like a short magnum. It also uses quality Lapua brass and can fit in the AR15 platform.

The 6.5 Grendel constantly has demonstrated sub-moa accuracy at even long ranges for your primary use at the range. It has also taken many deer without problem for your secondary use.

Info here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.5_Grendel

and at www.65grendel.com
 
Reginhild,

Actually, it's the other way around: I've got a long action already, so I'm trying to stay away from a .260 as I'll have all that extra space in the magazine that could cause feeding problems that SleepingDog mentioned, and I could make use of a larger case to get a few more fps, or the same velocity with less pressure.

I'm thinking I might just end up buying QuickLoad (are there any other internal ballistics programs that are as good/better/cheaper?) and messing around with pressures and such to see what the tradeoffs are in the ballistics.

Thanks for all the help!
 
Also, what makes the M96 action so weak?
Click to expand...

Nothing. Swedish M96s were made of the finest steel available at the time more than likely stronger than many M98 actions made during the time and certainly didn't have dangerous problems as with the 1903 springfield with improper heat treating. The M96 does lack some safety features such as a safety lug and a bolt shroud with a gas deflector found in the M98, but the need for these are more academic than practical if the rifle is used for purposes other than a military rifle.

Spain even rechambered a lot of mauser 93 rifles made out of questionable and much inferior steel for 7.62 NATO which is a 'higher pressure' round than the 6.5swede and 7x57. Some people happily shoot .308 win. through these rifles, though I wouldnt' reccommend it.
 
6.5x55 or 6.5x55AI. Swedes got it right! 1000 yards, small game, large-ish game, lapua brass, perfect size for the M98, good barrel life. It's the perfect do it all cartridge IMHO (if your limited to one cartridge).
 
My google-fu skills must be fading, I can't find a direct comparison of the 6.5x55 to the AI version. So, a few more questions, then I'll stop. I promise. If loaded to the same pressure, how much faster is the AI version? (Or, at the same velocity, how much lower pressure is the AI?) How does barrel life compare? Brass life?

Thanks again, y'all.
 
Here

Not all gunsmiths know what they are doing. Find one who has done AI stuff sucessfully before (has happy customers that aren't related to him).

The reamers are easy to find, so a somebody must be doing it.
http://www.benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27366
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/6mmbr/vpost?id=880241&goto=nextnewest
http://benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30442
Here's some intersting info
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/850915/posts

I think BJ in this case stands for Bob Jourdan
On the other hand, the 6.5x55 BJ Ackley Improved cartridge is a true Improved in that the cases are formed by simply firing the 6.5x55 Swedish cartridge in the Improved chamber to safely increase capacity and performance by something more than 10%.
Click to expand...

You should be able to get the reamer from here and other places. Just be aware that there is more than one improved 6.5x55. The BJ is the desirable one as the cases can be fireformed.
http://www.mansonreamers.com/

As a side note, the Swede doesn't have the same rim diameter as the usual mauser cartridges. Don't know how this complicates things. Nothing a good gunsmith can't overcome.
 
the Swede doesn't have the same rim diameter as the usual mauser cartridges.
Click to expand...

Yup. But I usually use an RCBS #1* (.30-06, 7x57, .45ACP, etc.) shell holder instead of the #7* because it's usually already on my press and priming tool, and it seems to hold the casing a little bit more steady than the #7 does. I wouldn't be too suprised if the bolt head would work anyway. I think I'd try it as is before messing with it.

Thanks again for all the help. I think I'm going to bite the bullet and buy QuickLoad so I can look at what the tradeoffs are (such as barrel length-- 6.5x55 barrels generally seem to be pretty long, but maybe with the improved it isn't really needed?)

Nate

*These aren't the RCBS numbers. I don't have the right ones in front of me.
 
Last edited:
domestic 6.5x55 brass (win, rem) use the standard rim diameter, Lapua and Norma use the correct 6.5x55 rim diameter. If it were me, I'd have the bolt fitted to use the correct rim diameter, Lapua brass is far better than Remington or Win.
 
Although the rim diameter of the 6.5x55 is supposed to be slightly larger than the .308/.30-06, and RCBS has a different case holder listed for it, I find that my Lapua brass fits the same case holder I use for .308 and .30-06.

Don
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

M
  • Locked
Whittling down the choices (new rifle)
Replies
5
Views
656
Jaywalker
J
N
  • Locked
Rebarrel my Savage model 11, find a donor action for a 6.5 build, or buy a Ruger?
Replies
17
Views
2K
Newtosavage
N
RugerOldArmy
  • Locked
.260 Rem vs 6.5x55, or the .264 Belted Mags?
2
Replies
27
Views
9K
rangerruck
R
P
  • Locked
6.5-06
2
Replies
28
Views
7K
ThadJB
T
B
  • Locked
6.5x55?
Replies
7
Views
580
NCsmitty
N
Back
Top