Advice needed, looking for a new 'summer carry'

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MyRoad

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In the fall/winter/spring, I carry a G19 or an M40-A1 (and once in a while, a USP45C). I really like the HK LEM trigger, and the Steyr M40-A1 is probably my favorite of all. I like short crisp triggers. The G19 is my work gun, because I don't care if it gets dirty. I only carry stiker-fired guns, no safety, every pull the same.

I have a Kahr K40, and the size is great for a summer carry -- while the trigger is smooth, I hate how long it is and how close to the grip it actually engages.

I'm looking for a gun about the size of a K40 (narrow with a relatively short grip) with the a trigger like the M40 (short, crisp, light pull).

Any suggestions? I've never dry fired the littlest Walther, or a Kel-Tec 9mm. What else is out there? I've never handled the smaller M&P, and the little XD seems kind of chunky/thick.

(In case it doesn't go without saying, quality and reliability are critical.)
 
I can't recommend it yet as I haven't fired it yet, but I just picked up a Walther PPS in 9mm. From what I've read the gritty trigger will smooth out with use, and it operates just like a Glock. Very trim, dare I say, elegant little pistol. If it proves reliable it will be my summer carry. I like the trigger better than a Kahr's, which I find a little mushy and have reset issues with.
 
I picked up a Kel-tec PF9 for an alternate summer carry/running gun. Small, light, accurate, can be pocket carried and decent trigger. For the price (lightly used for $199) it's hard to beat. My wife liked it and my G19 so much she had to have her own! :D:D The PF9 likes lighter 115 or 124gr Hornady Critical defense or TAP rounds. 147 gr JHP work for me, but my wife needs the lighter bullets for it function reliably. Her smaller hands and forearms don't have the mass to prevent her from limp wristing and causing feeding problems with heavier bullets. I've put through 147gr JHP through hers and my PF9 without any issues at all, which kinda' twerked her off.;) Of course, the G19 will eat any ammo I feed it.
 
range report: walther pps

I bought a Walther PPS in 9mm a couple of weeks ago, primarily for the same reasons you're shopping now: summer carry. I love my H&K USP Compact .45. But it is a tad chubby. And heavy. And when it's riding in an in-the-waistband holster and digging that de-cocker/safety into my winter, um, padding. Eh!

Weekend before last, I got it to the range.

What follows is an informal report.

I rolled the first target, a B-24 (headless, body-mass silhouette), out to about eight yards, and put six of the first seven rounds fired in the center ring, not tight, but in there. Rolled it back in. Pasted a dirty bird (shows color at impact points) over the center. Took a few deep breathes, settled into it and immediately started placing much tighter groups, varying the range between seven and ten yards.

Pretty quickly, however, I started worrying. I wasn't seeing anything landing on the target. Rolled it in. The center was gone.

I was missing to the inside. I like doing that.

I shot, by and large, as accurately with the PPS as I do with my 1911 or H&K USP compacts (9mm & .45).

I may even have shot a little better this time out. Sometimes a change in weapons or adding a light attachment or holding a flashlight seems to improve my accuracy, probably by focusing my attention more acutely on the act of shooting.

Be that as it may, I'm confident that the PPS is capable of a good deal more accuracy than I bring to the range.

These were Remington 115-grain, jacketed hollow points. (I haven't been able to find any FMJ range ammo in stores for a month or so, and I had a lot of defensive rounds that have been lying around long enough to need to be used.)

Through about 75 rounds: No stove-pipes. No failures to feed. No failures to eject.

I had read in the forums that, to prevent these, it was a good idea to clean and lubricate the weapon before firing (which I would have done anyway) and to store the magazine loaded overnight (to relax the spring a little). So I followed that advice.

In terms of feel, with the larger of the two back straps on the grip, it feels a lot like a skinny H&K USP Compact.

In fact, it feels a little bit skinnier than even a 1911 with standard grips.

With the 7-round magazine that now ships solo with the PPS, all three of my non-trigger fingers fit comfortably (but barely) onto the grip.

Perceived recoil was somewhere between what I feel with the USP-C 9mm and what I feel from the USP-C .45, not bad at all, and very manageable -- with that back strap and magazine.

I have not enjoyed shooting smaller gripped .380 and 9mm pistols that leave my pinkie hanging, and I've not shot well with them. I've read that that is psychological and don't doubt that, but it's still my reality.

With smaller gripped pocket rockets borrowed from colleagues, the pistol seemed to shift on firing, battering the webbing between my thumb and forefinger and seriously slowing my reacquisition of the target. Ten to 20 rounds was all I needed to be persuaded that it was time to get back to my own sidearm.

When you consider that "my own sidearm" has been, often as not, a 1911 Combat Commander (albeit a nice one), I think we can agree that I'm not a baby about the webbing between my thumb and forefinger.

I've heard it said, of pocket rockets, "Well, you wouldn't want to shoot this all day, but it's great for concealed carry." And I understand that position and sympathize with it. The sidearms I've been most comfortable shooting all day have tended to be ones I would prefer not to carry concealed all day (except perhaps off body).

By contrast, I feel like I could have shot the PPS all day; and next time, I may; and yet it is small enough and light enough that I don't mind carrying it concealed on body (in a High Noon IWB Split Decision).

(For summer carry, you might also consider High Noon's Alter Ego, also IWB but with a flap that insulates the sidearm from your, well, side. That was my first purchased holster for this weapon, and I'm keeping it. But it's a little heavier than the Split Decision, and bulks the carry package back out to what the H&K would be in a Split Decision. Still, an H&K in the Alter Ego would look like a fanny pack.)

In summary, I've found that, for discretion and comfort, the Walther PPS outperforms the H&Ks and that, for accuracy, at my skill level, it matches the H&Ks (if not my 1911).

I will concede that, for open carry, I'd still go with the H&K (for the extra rounds in 9mm, or the extra firepower in .45; and for the DA/SA action and thumb-actuated safety/de-cocker on both) in a Black Hawk Serpa CQC. But open carry is not an option in the city, and I live in the city.
 
Thanks for all the feedback.

I've considered the G26, but at a gun store I put one on top of a G19 (which I already have) and it seemed like it was approximately the same length and width, and only the height -- i.e. length of the grip -- was smaller. As much as that can impact on concealment, its kind of hard for me to justify spending another $500 for something so similar to a gun I already own.

The Walther seems like a good candidate. I'll have to see if I can find one to dry fire and handle.
 
My summer carry is a H&K P2000sk 9mm (LEM). I have a thing for H&Ks, but the P2000sk really is a great sub-compact carry gun. I have a USP 40c too, but the P2000sk has a shorter grip which makes printing much less noticeable when in only shorts and a T-shirt. The design itself is much more concealable than the USPc. The slide is thinner and tapers towards the top, which makes it very sleek and concealable. The ambi slide releases are also much less bulky than the single slide release and safety on my USP 40c (V1).

I really love the LEM trigger. I ordered 2 springs from H&K for $10 + shipping and did the factory "light LEM conversion" and now I have a consistent 5.5# pull with a short reset. I believe it's the best trigger system out there for concealed carry. It offers the safety of a longer double-action trigger pull and an uncocked hammer, yet it still feels and breaks like a light single-action pull. It also has a consistent pull from the first shot to the last and a short reset for firing quickly. Not to mention second-strike capability. Accuracy is outstanding for me too. As you can tell, I really like the LEM trigger!

A good holster is also essential for a comfortable summer rig.

Here's a crappy iPhone pic of my P2000sk with the flat magazine floor plate installed (I hate the standard "extended" floor plates supplied with it. They do nothing but put your pinky in an awkward position):
photo-72.gif
 
If concealable and super trigger are what's importatnt you might want to consider SAO. I have heard good things about the Springfield EMP.

Personally I tote a K9 and am very happy with the trigger.
 
Does your Kahr K40 have the NYPD trigger?

I've had this gun for years, its an "Elite 03", and I do not believe its the NYPD trigger. The trigger pull is very smooth, with probably 5 lbs. of resistance - very similar to my PM9. I just put a ruler behind it and it looks as though for about a half inch of pull, there is consistent resistance. I would bet the M40 is less than half that distance, closer to 1/8".
 
It gets hot in Oregon, when it's not raining.:D

I agree, the XD subcompact is really fat. If I can carry that, I can probably carry my XD45. Too bad, since I like the XD's function and features.

Personally, I like a J-frame in a pocket holster. Easy to carry no matter what I'm wearing. Not striker-fired, though.:)
 
Colt Mustang .380. I know bigger calibers are now available in even smaller packages but I love my Mustang. Comfortable, accurate, low recoil, a little bit on the heavy side but that's fine. In the pocket holster I got it completely disappears in the cargo pocket of my shorts.
 
I have a Kahr K40, and the size is great for a summer carry -- while the trigger is smooth, I hate how long it is and how close to the grip it actually engages

Wow, you haven't tried a KelTec P11 then. Now *that* sucker has a long trigger pull that releases almost against the plastic. My K9 has a fairly short pull with a good 1/4" before it makes contact.
 
Going to be looking at the same problem here in SC very shortly.

Has anyone had any experience with the micro 9mms? I mean the truly small ones, basically .380-sized.

The guns that come to mind are the Rohrbaugh, the old Colt Pocket Nine, and the forthcoming Boberg.

Any experience with - or scuttlebut about - these?
 
I've considered the G26, but at a gun store I put one on top of a G19 (which I already have) and it seemed like it was approximately the same length and width, and only the height -- i.e. length of the grip -- was smaller. As much as that can impact on concealment, its kind of hard for me to justify spending another $500 for something so similar to a gun I already own.

I can add a little insight on this, since I have a G26 and G23, which has exactly the same dimensions of your G19. The smaller dimensions of the G26 actually do make a difference for concealed carry. I use one of two holsters--a SmartCarry and an MTAC tuckable IWB--and in both instances the smaller dimensions of the G26 make it more concealable. The primary difference with regard to IWB carry is the shorter grip; it prints less noticeably and offers a bit less bulk at the 4 o'clock position, where I place the MTAC. When I use the SmartCarry, the smaller grip does make a difference, but the somewhat shorter barrel also makes it more comfortable in that position.

Having said all that, I'm not sure that the G26 nets enough of an advantage in concealment to add to your collection, since you already have the G19. But, I do feel that my G26 is better suited for concealed carry than the G23 or G19.
 
No white guns to be worn after Labor Day!

Let's show some class out there people, for goodness' sake!
 
I'd say its hard to beat a 642, however given your preferences I'd say a g27, same size as the 26 and more power.
 
If you want a true "summer carry", I mean shorts and t-shirt and no one will EVER be the wiser summer carry, might I suggest you look at the NAA Black Widow in 22 Magnum.
 
The Walther PPS is a superb firearm and well worth consideration. That having been said, be sure to practice with and test-drive -- and then practice with again -- any handgun you decide to use for concealed carry, just to make sure that it fits your hand and eye. What works well for me might not work at all for you. The many good recommendations that you'll receive on this forum don't mean squat-diddly if the gun doesn't fit you.
 
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