Advice on a long range gun.....

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I've shot 600 yards + with my DPMS Panther LR-308.

but a little more on the price tag you could get a

Armalite AR-30M in a .338 Lapua for a tag around $1500... I have accuratly hit over 1000 yards with this gun.... This would do the trick...

The nice thing about it, its also available in different calibers.

.300 Win Mag
.308/7.62mm
.338 Lapua
 
Zak you forgot to include down range energy in your tables. If this is to be considered for hunting that is a factor in my book if not then look at the 6.5-284. That is one of the favored cartridges for 1000 yard competition. I know for a fact that it is quite effective on white tails to 500 yards. But it all boils down to what makes your heart beat increase that extra beat or two when you see it.
 
I would say, that a bare minimum to look at, is a 180 grain bullet, doing at least 3000fps, this will have plenty of b.c., and carry lots of speed and energy, past the 600 yard mark. I'd say the least to go with here, would be the 7mmstw, with a 180 grain bullet.
 
For most folks who want to dream about shooting something at 600+ yards the 7mm Rem Mag is about all they need.

In my mis spent youth in SE Asia, I used something that was absolute dynamite on 1000 meters and beyond but it was a wildcat then and probably unknown today.

Imagine a 300 Weatherby Magnum case necked down to 264 (yes 6.5mm) and shooting a custom VLD type 160 grain projectile at over 3200 fps.

That was one heckofa long range rifle on a long action custom Remington 700 or 40XB single shot setup with no cut in the receiver bottom for a magazine. Rifles were 26" tubes and had Unertel 20X scopes.
 
Zak Smith:
In a 10 lb rifle,

.30-06 shooting 175gr @ 2800 fps = 7.6 ft*lbs free recoil energy (FRE)
7RM shooting 168gr @ 3000 fps = 8.0 ft*lbs FRE
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You left the powder out of your calculation. With 60 grains in the 06 and 70 in the Mag, the results would be 18.9 and 22.0 ft-lbs, respectively.
 
You left the powder out of your calculation. With 60 grains in the 06 and 70 in the Mag, the results would be 18.9 and 22.0 ft-lbs, respectively.
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You're right. Using 4000fps powder velocity [1] [2] and 60 and 70 grains, we get:

3006 bullet: 7.6, powder 1.8, total 9.4 FRE

7RM bullet 8.0, powder 2.5, total 10.5 FRE
 
Energy is velocity squared, you can't add the bullet energy alone to the powder energy alone. Add the velocities from each component and recalculate energy.

I used 4700 for powder velocity, which was the figure given in Hatcher's Notebook. And as such, was the accepted figure 50 years ago and may have been measured more precisely since.
 
It sounds like you don't have an intended hunting use for this cartridge.

You are going to hunt with your 30-06 (great choice) and you want to punch paper at long range, but for some reason you want to be able to kill an elk at that range as well?

If you aren't ACTUALLY elk hunting, just get a 308. It makes no sense to step up to the expense and recoil of a magnum just to make a hole in paper.

Get yourself a Remington 40-x and a nice leupold scope. Hell, if you are getting a 308 instead of an expensive to shoot magnum, sink the money you will save on ammo into a Schmidt and Bender, Swarovski, or Nightforce scope.
 
I was not computing muzzle energy-- which is not directly relevant to recoil. Free Recoil Energy is the kinetic energy that the rifle obtains due to conservation of momentum. It's proportional to (m*v)^2 (for each of: bullet, powder).
 
Wow, only one person said this...

I have to question the ethics of ultra long range hunting, especially of a large predator like a bear.
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I too question the decision to take 600 yard shots at bear or elk. If we were talking plains game, especially African plains game, or Dahl sheep, then I could understand. But, that is your call as long as what you are doing is legal. I would not personally take those shots, but if I were going to I think that a 300RUM would most likely be the best candidate for the job.

For those recommending a 338 Lapua…come on. Most of the guns chambered in 338 Lapua are a bit heavy to be humping through the woods over hill and dale. I think that the 300RUM would give all the velocity and energy needed at that range to insure an ethical kill in a rifle that would weigh a reasonable amount, and have a trajectory that would not require too much hold over.

It’s just my $0.02,
 
None of these cartridges is going to have a point-blank range further than about 300-350 yards. Once you get past there, for reliable precision hits, you need to dial elevation or use one of the more precise bullet-drop reticles (Horus, Nightforce NPR1/2, etc). Ranging and dialing elevation is usually not the limiter to making long-range hits.
 
You can't add energies.

If a rifle picks up 5 feet per second (25n ft-lbs on its own) from the kick of the powder, and 5 feet per second (25n more standalone ft-lbs) from the kick of the bullet, the total kick is not 50n ft-lbs - it is 10 feet per second which is 100n ft-lbs.
 
I'll +1 the 300RUM got one and LOVE it, but like zak said you have to get the right glass. i think it's more important than the cartridge at 1000 yards.
and unless your annie oakly or something, you should'nt be shooting critters that far away anyhow. stick to paper.
 
So to shift gears slightly.....which caliber would be the best choice for a long range, target only gun.....If I was shooting a Remington 700 SPS with a nice, big scope...

308 - 30-06 - 7mm Rem Mag? I probably won't be able to setup to reload for several months, but eventually I would like to be able to.
 
For those recommending a 338 Lapua…come on. Most of the guns chambered in 338 Lapua are a bit heavy to be humping through the woods over hill and dale. I think that the 300RUM would give all the velocity and energy needed at that range to insure an ethical kill in a rifle that would weigh a reasonable amount, and have a trajectory that would not require too much hold over.
Click to expand...

If you read the very first post of the thread, he really doesnt care what he gets... he said he even wasnt against a .50cal He just doesnt want to convert his 700 with bipods, scopes etc... he wants another gun for that purpose and leave his 700 alone. So assuming I am understanding him correctly, he has no preferance to the size (bulkyness) of the rifle.

Thats why I in turn recommended the .338 Lapua... heavy gun yes, bit much? Not one bit, 600 meters is a long shot, this will definatly tame that shot, and then some.
 
So to shift gears slightly.....which caliber would be the best choice for a long range, target only gun.
Click to expand...

Now you are talking. I think it smart to separate the hunting from the target shooting, both in gun and attitude. If I pull a shot on a target, it costs me a point or two. If I pull a shot with hair in the sights, it means a cripple.

Now, what do you consider "long range?"
600 yards - almost anything, a .223 will do better than you probably think.
1000 yards - .308 is not bad, a lot of hotshots use 6.5x284, some dinosaurs who don't mind recoil shoot .300 magnums. Maybe the 6.5x47 Lapua will catch on, I dunno. Numerous 6, 6.5, 7mm wildcats by handloading only.
1200+ yards - major big .300 magnums, .338 Lap, .338 RUM.
After that, it gets strange and specialized. By the time you are up to the requirements, you won't likely have to ask a bunch of strangers on the internet.

I probably won't be able to setup to reload for several months, but eventually I would like to be able to.
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Big vote for the .308, there are very few other calibers with factory target ammo available, except specialist rounds like 6.5x284, 6.5x47, .338 Lapua, which are of limited selection and high, high price.
Wear out a .308 barrel and you will likely have enough experience to pick a caliber to rebarrel with.
 
So to shift gears slightly.....which caliber would be the best choice for a long range, target only gun.....If I was shooting a Remington 700 SPS with a nice, big scope...

308 - 30-06 - 7mm Rem Mag? I probably won't be able to setup to reload for several months, but eventually I would like to be able to.
Click to expand...
Read this, the section on caliber selection
PRACTICAL LONG-RANGE RIFLE SHOOTING - PART I: THE RIFLE & GEAR

The medium-sized 6.5mm cartridges dominate. The 140-gr-class match/VLD bullets have very high BC values for their mass, they produce little recoil, and they reach out real far. On the bottom end, 6.5x47 Lapua, on the top end, probably 6.5-284 Norma. Others include 260, 260 Ackley, 6.5x55 Swede, 6.5-06. Factory ammo appropriate for long-range is available in 260 and 6.5x47 Lapua at least, not sure about all the rest.

If reloading is out, the 308 is the best choice. When you get tired of 308 and want a step up ballistically, you can rebarrel to 260 easily.
 
That is a really good article Zak. I really seems to lean towards starting w/308....and even though I have practiced (and killed) alot with my '06, I am leaning towards that route. I think this week I may try to pick out a rifle (probably the Remington 700 Varmint in 308).....The other big thing I am thinking about is whether it is worth the extra money to go with a detachable mag or not on a bolt gun...seems kinda pointless for slow, long range accurate shooting.
 
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