advice on AK 47 or ar 15

[thefamcnaj]

Ok guys, I went to a gun show last Last Sunday to scope out some sig hangguns I've been drooling over. I found what I wanted and will be picking it up at the next show in October. While I was there I began looking at rifles hard for the first time ever. Not for hunting, mainly ak's, ar's and the Springfield M1a. I never considered getting one until I heard numerous vendors saying that if Obama is relelected they will be the first things he goes after.
Now I feel rushed to get one before, they could possibley dry up. I want the AK to start with because I here so much about their reliability. Only problem is I have no experience with assault rifles, and no ranges around here rent them out.
So I went to academey sports and fondled a few (ar 15's) and realized I now nothing about them. How would I go about learning the gun and its mechanics, just how it works in general(know the basics pull the trigger, bang) If I have no where to shoot one and get exposure, what are my options? Or is the best thing just buy one and look at videos on youtube to learn how it works?

 

[Holo]

Videos on youtube help. Also if you decide what you want, build it. I built an AR15 before even shooting one. It really helps you understand the weapon.

AK has reliability
AR has accuracy

Both have good after market but more so the AR. Either choice is a good one.

 

[thefamcnaj]

When you say build one, does this involve any machining at all or fabrication? Do ak's come in a kit? Main reason I'm thinking ak is because, I'm a GLOCK nut and I've heard Glocks reffered to as the ak of the pistol world. So to be honest thats why I leaned that way. I love the thought of ultra reliability.

 

[Telekinesis]

Oh great, the gun show guys are already starting with this "he's gonna ban them!!!" stuff again? I guess it's always a possibility, but I don't think there's much chance with the current state of politics in the house and senate, and remember the president doesn't write the laws, he just sign them into being (at least that's how its supposed to work...) Though that could be just the fact that I bought a FAL and AK less than a month ago and can't afford another right now

The only reason that I can see to hurry is to try to avoid another price spike with panic buyers. Which reminds me, I need to buy more ammo...

As far as AK versus AR, that is a LOOOONNNNGGGGG discussion, but my choice was mainly based off of ammo. I don't like the .223 very much in a combat rife and ammo for my AK is a bit cheaper. Though if you're also looking at the M1A, you might want to look into a FAL and HK 91 clone. DSA makes very nice FALs and PTR does good HK 91 clones.

As far as learning the guns, I find that youtube works well, especially if you need to quickly find how to disassemble a gun (say you're buying FTF and want to check it out and not seem completely ignorant of how the gun works) but for real deep knowledge about the gun, I'd look into discussion forums for personal views and some good reviews for more "technical" knowledge (google is your friend).

Another thing to consider is that if you're buying this to preempt a ban, you'll probably want a gun that will function well even after years of use, so you will probably want to stay away from the bargain priced guns like the century AKs and lower quality ARs.

 

[browneu]

What will your primary use be? Another thing to consider is caliber. Do you want something that shoots .556 or 7.62x39? I would search the various AR vs AK threads and various caliber war threads. That will give you a direction of where to begin.

One thing I learned is that what I like is very different than what other people like who doesn't know me.

Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk

 

[Cosmoline]

I never considered getting one until I heard numerous vendors saying that if Obama is relelected they will be the first things he goes after.

Yeah, they used that same line in 2008. I swear some of these guys would set grandma on fire to make a sale.

There are a lot of difference between them, but ultimately you can find good and poor examples of each. The bargain bin examples of each are often, though not always, a mistake to buy.

AR's:

--Much easier to modify, and can be fitted with uppers all the way to .50 BMG.
--Much easier to scope when in flattop mode
--Not always tack drivers, but can be made accurate easier than most rifles
--More reliable cycling than you might expect.
--Easier to customize
--Arguably better choice for training, since most urban carbine programs focus on it.

AK Clones:

--Less expensive
--Arguably more intuitive to use and maintain
--More reliable magazines and a better feeding system
--More tolerant of genuine abuse
--Can be quite accurate but accurizing is more of a challenge
--Is what it is, so less $$ on Magpul this and tango that.

 

[thefamcnaj]

The primary use will be recreational. Just something to learn about and take to the range once twice a month. Also I want something for when and if SHTF. Which my whole family are among the group waiting on it to break bad in America and the more I listen to them the more I'm slowly getting sucked in. Only ak brand I know is Saiega. Ar's all I've fondled is the smith m&p's. I don't want a piece of crap but at the same time I want a good affordable rifle to be comfortable with befor I pay what they are asking for the m1a. Any good books on the workigns of assault rifles?

 

[FrankieJames7]

AR-10

 

[browneu]

Like the other posters say get something of quality. I chose the AR platform because of its modular configuration. I can have one upper for CQB and then switch to a different upper with a different configuration for long range shooting. The differing uppers can even be in different calibers and it only requires pushing out two captive pins to change.

However know this, ARs are more reliable than myth and AKs are more accurate than myth.

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[Ohio Gun Guy]

^^^^

What he said!

I'm new-er to the AR club, but probably 300-400 rounds and exactly -0- failure to fire, jambs, etc with my AR.

My AK (Which I have had for a while), despite being the internet dreaded WASR (Which I like FWIW) is capable of shooting clay pidgeons off the back stop at 140 +/- yards, standing, iron sight, mil-surp ammo, relitively rapid follow-up. While thats not going to win a national match anytime soon, when your actually standing there, those get real small and all the internet talk about not hitting the broad side of a barn starts to sound really silly. (2-4" at 100yds is a good expectation, IMO)

If on a tight budget....AK, they are FUN!, if you can afford it consider the AR. For me its a both thing, I'm blessed! I wouldnt want to part with either, unless I really had to.

 

[Inebriated]

The primary use will be recreational. Just something to learn about and take to the range once twice a month. Also I want something for when and if SHTF. Which my whole family are among the group waiting on it to break bad in America and the more I listen to them the more I'm slowly getting sucked in. Only ak brand I know is Saiega. Ar's all I've fondled is the smith m&p's. I don't want a piece of crap but at the same time I want a good affordable rifle to be comfortable with befor I pay what they are asking for the m1a. Any good books on the workigns of assault rifles?

It's all up to you. Both platforms have their strengths and weaknesses. It's all about which ones you value most. If SHTF, I'm taking an AK, but that's just me.

 

[thefamcnaj]

I'm reading so much material on ak 47's its crazy. So far I've gathered to stay away from wsar ak's and the one I see real high marks on is the Arsenal built ak. Its quite a difference in price. I was thinking in the 5 to 6 hundred dollar range. The Arsenal is 8 to 9 hundred as best I can tell. Sure is a lot to digest.
I've pretty much decided to start with the ak plat form. It looks like the easiest to learn and maintain. Actually looks pretty simple. I used glock as my intro to hand guns due to their simplicity, same reasoning I'm using to start with the ak platform as an intro into rifles.

 

[Ruddie]

It's a dreaded argument... I own both and its pretty much what most are saying. Reliability vs accuracy. I have a Bushmaster A2 AR-15 and a Romainian WASR 10 underfolder. Neither of which has given me any problems. ARs are more expensive to modify and buy/build but why mod something?
Personally I like my AK better just because of the toughness/design factor. Mine shoots 2 roughly @ 200..... If I'm having to iron sight past that, something is horribly amiss.

 

[Zerodefect]

I can rattle off the names of a dozen+ companies that make trustworthy AR's. But I really can't think of any AK builders that make a trustworthy and solid AK that.......deosn't cost as much as a decent AR.

If you want an AK, then get an AK. But an AR is the superior rifle for most people. The reliability stuff is mostly BS. As long as you don't stuff a good AR chock full of stupidity, it'll run fine.

The AR's have evolved alot over the years and are still cutting edge tech. AK's?.....not so much.

AR:
+ Colt, BCM, LMT, Daniel Defense, Spiikes, Rainier Arms, KAC, Noveske are all good.
+AR is very Ambi friendly
+accurate
+parts support
+optic setups fit well
+free float rails
+tons of custom sized and shaped AR's for a variety of different shaped shooters
+Magpul Parts/mags
+5.56, 6.8spc, 6.5 grendel, .50 Beowolf
+modern grip stance with long rails
-usually a bit pricey
-requires more maintenance than a tactical rock
-it's alot to learn at first


AK:
+Arsenal is good.
+cheaper
+rugged
+better iron sights than an AR IMO. (But Ar's can use an optic)
-old school carbine grip stance, no long rails
- I can't run Soviet guns without feeling a bit stupid when perfectly good American weapons are available.
-hard to know the difference between a quality AK and a Chinese POS
-if it's at a gun show, it's most likely chinese junk
-no truely good optic setup
-not ambi friendly
-ergos stink
-cheap mags
-slow to reload
-awkward double feed clearance drill
-weak long range ballistics, mediocre accuracy

 

[Inebriated]

If you can afford the Arsenal, get the Arsenal. Both are good shooters, but you don't have to "hunt" for a good Arsenal. They're all good. You can get a Russian stamped from Arsenal (SGL21) for $825 (their online price), and it's hard to beat. The only thing better is their US-made milled AK's, which you really only need to get if you just want milled.

SO, get the Arsenal if you can... Their fit/finish beats that of any others that I've seen.

 

[BADUNAME37]

I try not to call them "assault" weapons, but rather semi-automatic rifles.

Yes, an AK is most likely more dependible than an AR. Start with the AK and get a good book that shows how to break it all down into individual parts, you can even do that before you start shooting it, just to make sure there is not a lot of gunk built up (like heavy grease or cosmoline). Then you can go ahead and oil it up and grease it the way you prefer, using your own grease and oil.

Break-Free CLP is the best stuff I have found to oil my guns, wipe them down, etc. I clean the barrel with Hoppes 9 but have used the ammonia-type bore cleaners (copper removers) in the past. You do want a really good grease, preferably in a syringe-type container, so you can squirt a bit just where you want it and spread it with your finger if need be.

 

[henschman]

Wow, there has been a lot of good advice in this thread! It is nice to see one of these discussions go without all the bickering you usually see in something on this topic. I'd say just about all of the advice given is accurate and relatively unbiased.

AR... AK... M1A... all are great rifles that I think everyone should own one of! The AR and AK are good carbines for close quarters and will get you into intermediate range. The M1A is a different animal altogether. While the AR and AK are intermediate power rifles, the M1A is a full powered "battle rifle"... a true Rifleman's Rifle. Its max effective range is much longer than the AR or AK, and it puts a whole lot more foot lbs. of energy on target, especially out there at intermediate and long range. Much better penetration of barriers than either of the intermediate power carbines, too. It also has the best iron sights ever put on a rifle, and tends to be very reliable. I'd put it somewhere between the AR and AK in reliability. It is a good bit longer and heavier than your average AR or AK though, has more recoil, and is not as easy to mount optics on as an AR.

You mentioned you are going with the AK first. If you want an AK in your price range, I would highly recommend getting a Saiga in whatever caliber floats your boat and then converting it back to pistol grip configuration. It will meet your price requirements, and you will learn a lot about the workings of your rifle. Plus it is made in Russia on the same equipment that makes the current production military AKs. It is as close to the real deal as you will probably get, as long as we have the import restrictions and the closed NFA registry at least. You honestly won't find a higher quality AK.

There is a ton of info on Saiga conversions on the interweb... do some googling and you will see. Plenty of info on this site as well, though there are some dedicated Saiga boards that might be better.

Also, if you want to go with a cheaper option, I think that all of the badmouthing of WASRs is overblown. I think he vast majority of them work very well... mine included. My WASR 10/63 will hold 3 MOA right out to 400 yards with iron sights. I honestly don't have a bad thing to say about it.

 

[Sky]

An SKS was never mentioned but I will bring it up.

The AR has many advantages or more desirable add ons and do dads.
Depending on you age and eye sight they are easy to scope or add optics that look like they belong instead of some after thought IMO.

The AK with it's iron sights and short sight radius is not as accurate IMO but it can be scoped and shot well. The SKSs that I have will shoot more accurate than my AK. Longer, smoother, quieter IMO. I like all of them to include the M1. If I had to get rid of everything but one rifle an AR would stay. Just to many options with the platform. As many have said before, "the AR is a grown-ups tinker toy"!

 

[Rob G]

I don't know a ton about ARs so I'll stick to AKs in my post since you mentioned being interested in them. As a general rule spending more money on an AK does not necessarily get you a more reliable or accurate AK. All AKs have about the same level of reliability and accuracy. Some are good, some are bad, and you can usually fix it either way. What spending more money does get you is a nicer level of finish. IE an Arsenal will look and feel like a higher grade of AK than a WASR but they'll shoot about the same. The only real problem WASRs have ever had is canted front sites because the assembly monkeys at Century aren't very careful with them. So inspect a WASR if you can before you buy it, and if you must buy online get it from a reputable dealer that'll exchange a bad one. Some of them also had trigger slap issues, a new Tapco G2 trigger solves this and costs about $35 or so.

As for the some of the other things I've read in here, there are only a few things I'd like to address.

1. It's always a good idea to have a commie made chrome lined barrel. Other than that country of manufacture is not much of an issue. The Chinese make good AKs as do the Russians (obviously), Polish, Bulgarians, Romanians, Hungarians, Egyptians, etc. The only country that had a bad rep for AKs is America, although that is getting better, kind of.

2. You can mount all kinds of optics on an AK. There are good quality rail systems available to mount an optic (and other attachments) nearly anywhere on an AK that you want. They're generally easy to install and they work well.

3. If you're looking for something in the $500 to $600 price range (I think that's what you specified) then you should look at Waffen Werks or Tennessee Guns. They're both companies that assemble (mostly) foreign parts kits in to functioning AKs. They're highly regarded in the AK community and can often be found in your price range.

If you're serious about getting an AK you might went to spend some time at an AK dedicated forum. I got the AK bug a few months back and started hanging out on AK47.net. I've been truly amazed by the variety of modifications that are possible and the ease with which they can be done. But I've also learned that you have to talk to real dedicated AK guys to see what's actually possible.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

I'm reading so much material on ak 47's its crazy. So far I've gathered to stay away from wsar ak's and the one I see real high marks on is the Arsenal built ak. Its quite a difference in price. I was thinking in the 5 to 6 hundred dollar range. The Arsenal is 8 to 9 hundred as best I can tell. Sure is a lot to digest.
I've pretty much decided to start with the ak plat form. It looks like the easiest to learn and maintain. Actually looks pretty simple. I used glock as my intro to hand guns due to their simplicity, same reasoning I'm using to start with the ak platform as an intro into rifles.

Sounds like a candidate for a Saiga conversion. Same things as Arsenal but you do the work yourself (it's easy) so the price is in your range.
P.S.- Were you asleep in 2008? lol. The gunshow sellers said the same thing about obama's first term. Prices of anything semi automatic doubled. The are finally back to the levels they were before the 2008 hysteria and now they are starting the rumors again.

 

[kdave21]

How would I go about learning the gun and its mechanics, just how it works in general(know the basics pull the trigger, bang)

If you join the army, they include a free course on this very topic, although youtube might be quicker

 

[amprecon]

I could leave my other rifles behind, SLR-95 and LAR-8, and just have this one. Its a Rock River Arms LAR-6 in 6.8spc. The size of a standard AR15 but with much more oomph than a 5.56. Put a quality optic on it and you will have a very effective and versatile rifle/carbine.

 

[The-Reaver]

I base my collection on reliability that being said. I'm an AK guy. That also being said. My vote it for the M1A or the FN-FAL
The M1A has amazing reliability and accuracy.
The FN-FAL has Better reliability and somewhat less accuracy.

If you do not want 308 or 7.62x51 then my votes on the AK

 

[Papa_Woody]

Ahhh the battle continues. Carrying a black rifle in the field bothered me knowing my adversaries would likely have an ak. Bigger bang less to worry about and EVERYWHERE! but the black rifle has nibleness and far more options but you have to take care of it. I would not recommend locking one in a closet for extended periods and expect it to wake up all wide eyed and willing. They are a perfect opposite and the best option is to have two of each before you go

 

[thefamcnaj]

Doubletapdrew I wasnt into guns in 08, I came down with the sickness about a year ago