"Affordable" near-fine double?

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ArmedBear

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In some other threads, it's been remarked that just because a shotgun has two barrels next to each other, it's not necessarily a "side-by-side".

I don't have any side-by-side shotguns, and I've never owned one. I might get a coach gun for HD if my living situation changes, but that's not what I mean by "double."

I do have some shotguns that balance well and work for me. I don't feel the need need to have a SxS "just because"; however, I am interested in having a SxS for the unique handling that a good one has to offer.

What I'm asking about is this: what are some reasonably-priced hunting doubles that are worth saving for?

By "worth saving for" I mean guns that are finely-balanced, reliable "forever guns". I'm not looking for cheap, but I am looking for a good value. And while I might fantasize about having a Purdey someday, I'm not able to spend 7 or 8 figures, either.:)

The Franchi Highlander looks like such a gun.
http://www.franchiusa.com/firearms/modelHighlander.tpl

Anyone have one of these? Opinions? How about something else? Do they provide balance and feel worth $1000 over an O/U of similar quality?

Is there something out there for less than $2500?

Thoughts? Musings? Experiences?

Thanks!
 
CZ-UB bought out Zbrojovka Brno, and is releasing their guns in the U.S.A. under the BRNO RIFLES banner. I am waiting around to see which models that CZ-USA will have this fall. In terms of the quality/price compromise, the Brno doubles and combo guns are among the very best.

That said, I would be the last man on earth to talk someone out of a Franchi. I am not familiar with the Highlander, but I have been a proud Franchi owner most of my life, in fact, all of my adult life.
 
I've seen few Franchis. The Auto-5 and Benelli-action models are the only ones I recall handling. I don't think I've had a chance to swing a SxS or O/U from them (their ultralight O/U's are tempting, too). They do look nice, and I like the PoW grips and semi-beavertails they have (the best options for the terminally indecisive, too).:)

What Franchis do you have?

Hmmm... I've never quite understood the relationship between BRNO and CZ. I guess now it will be clearer. I've seen a good number of old BRNO rifles that look just like some newer CZ's, other than the name on them.
 
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I too an in the market for an "affordable" double. Here is a good site: http://www.doublegunshop.com/ As you can see, you can easily spend over $100,000 for a fine double, and what is affordable varies widely from person to person.

I would like to sell my 1957 Superposed Lightning and buy a nice British side by side. I have seen good Webley & Scott's in the low $3,000 dollar range which is to upper limit of my budget.

My ideal would be a straight english stock, 12 ga 2 3/4" improved and modified, but that's just me.
 
Verney Carron (French) make some lovely guns. Demas which is a finer gunmaker from the Carron range make some crackers. They are made to order and are based on English style and handle in the same way.
AYA is (Spanish) another either their No1 or No2.
 
ArmedBear looking for a SxS?

The Weatherby D'Italia seems to be acquiting itself well in these parts and is commonly seen in the mid 2K range.

The Beretta Silver Hawk is plentiful but a touch more than the Weatherby. I didn't shoot either but in just handling the two the Weatherby seemed more "lively".

If I wanted a sub 3K SxS and didn't want Turkish, it'd probably be the D'Italia.

If you ever make it to DFW, I'll spring for beers while you do the tour. This place could be murder on one's SxS budget. The Beretta Gallery has dozens and at least two places stock CSMC. One shop in East Dallas had a nice selection of D'Italias. Other than the D'Italia, you'll sail into the 5 figure range without even breaking a sweat. None have porting.
 
What price range are the AyA and the French guns?

None have porting.
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LOL

If ever there were an offense that justified crucifixion as a punishment, porting a fine double may be it.:D

Thanks for the invite. I'll take you up if I'm ever in the vicinity! Same goes here.

I found an older used fixed-choke 12 Gauge Silver Hawk in a local shop for $650. It had some honest wear, but looked decent. F/M I think, which wasn't what I considered ideal. Still, I wish I'd have grabbed it.
 
Those AH Foxes look nice.

WRT the Weatherby D'Italias, those are Fausti Stefano guns, right? Do you know how they differ (apart from cosmetics) from Marlin's LC Smiths? (Or am I mistaken to think those are also Fausti's?)
 
What Franchis do you have?
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I have an AL 48.

My father owns several Franchis, including the Veloce O/U, which is no longer made. (Franchi stopped making the really high end stuff after the buy-out.) He really wants an Imperial Monte Carlo, which is the forerunner of the Highlander. Unfortunately, they cost about as much as a new Honda Accord.

Hmmm... I've never quite understood the relationship between BRNO and CZ. I guess now it will be clearer. I've seen a good number of old BRNO rifles that look just like some newer CZ's, other than the name on them.
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Here is an article I wrote on the subject:

http://czechpistols82792.yuku.com/topic/16482

Short Answer: Two independent companies until the CSSR nationalized its arms industry along collectivist lines. After 1990, they were two independent companies again. Now, CZ is buying ZB. The confusion creeps in because there was a period in which all Czech arms were marked and exported as Brnos for marketing reasons.

Based on previous price structures, a grade 1 Brno would run around $1,200.00-$1,500.00. Grade 3s would be well under $1,000.00. I am probably too low with the dollar devaluation.
 
If you can't do the top drawer stuff, how about guns like the Ithaca (Western, and what was their model number like 300, IIRC), the Stevens 311, the Beretta Silverhawk, the Browning B-SS, inter alia (LC Smiths, etc.).

You can still find decent side-by-sides for less than 1K at least around here.
 
The various Beretta SxS guns have a lot going for them. But, were I looking for a bird gun with horizontally arranged barrels, I'd....

Pick up something like Ithaca's LeFever Nitro Special, Hunter Arms (LC Smith) boxlocks, or a Stevens 311. All are well made, reliable arms if not Boutique material.

Fox's Sterlingworth and Parker's Trojan are also utility grade guns fron name makers, but they have some obscene prices these days.

Or, try and find a French Guild Gun, often unnamed. These were oft made as well as their British counterparts but sell for a fraction of the price. Beware of short chambers.

HTH....
 
I've seen it reported here that the D'Italia is made by Fausti.

I don't know where the Marlin L.C. Smith is coming from but it doesn't seem to be nearly as well received as the D'Italia. Probably not surprising given as there's generally close to 1,000.00 between them.

Gun-Tests example of the L.C. Smith had a less than ideal trigger at 7 and 10 pounds. Patterned rather funky with one brand of ammo too, something like 90/10 with one barrel using Estate.

If you don't mind hearsay filtered through my questionable memory, the D'Italia is worth the difference. I think I'd actually prefer the english stocked version I played with over the base model Silver Hawk. That's saying a lot since I appreciate Beretta naming the thing after me.

The one review I read of the D'Italia noted that it was very tight. It was something of a pain until a hundred or two rounds were fired. Since many of the members of this forum don't consider a shotgun broken in until after a hundred or two cases I would guess this to be a non-issue.
 
AB - A SxS is the one glaring hole in my battery. With the advent of the CSMC RBL in 28ga, that may be filled soon. The other guns I like are the Silver Hawk in 20ga and some of the AyAs. Ugartechea also has some decent looking offerings.
 
AB,

Since you already have an affinity for SKB's, you might want to look for one of the older 100 or 200 series SxS (either SKB or Ithaca branded). I have a pair of 100's (12 and 20) in storage with my brother. The 12 is a a bit overstocked in the forend, but the 20 is joy. Great balance, weight, and proportion make it a deadly bird gun. I think that you can find a good one in your price range.
 
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Hawk, I'm sure I have that Gun Tests in my archive.:) I'll take a look.

LC's I've handled seem a bit rough.

The base-model Weatherby is within a hundred bucks of the LC Smith. Not enough to be a deciding factor. The high-end ones go way up, but I want the gun for field use, so I don't need to get the fanciest one anyway. I'll just be uncomfortable using it.

WRT the SKB's, looks like they stopped making the SxS. I'll have to look for an old one.

I was on the verge of getting an old Ithaca Western Field for about $300. It was a 16, and it was pretty crude. Nothing like the regular Ithacas of the era, that's for sure.

The Weatherby is intriguing... Under $1800 for the basic one, and I really don't need the sideplates of the gussied-up models.

Maybe I WILL go to the next gun show...
 
In an uncharacteristic surge of customer friendliness, Gun-Tests now has their archives open to subscribers at no charge.

Good point on the grades - I wasn't paying much attention. It just seemed those stocked hereabouts were in the 2,700.00 range. The Marlins are sparse but around 1,500.00.

I've got an L.C. Smith but it says "Fulton". Not sure how practical it is as it has the modern version of "full" and "+full+", or maybe "extreme turkey choke of infinite distance / feathered doom". Whatever they are, they're tight. Sure is nice though. It was a 400.00 rescue mission that has around 400.00 worth of stock repair if memory serves. One day it may go to Doug Turnbull. I used to kid around about sawing it off but I think I caught Steve on a bad day where he didn't know I was kidding so I no longer make such claims even in jest - too bad as I was going to threaten to port the thing.
;)

Dave's idea is a great one. I will admit though that the one Fulton-Hunter boxlock I got was nowhere near as nice as the 1949 L.C. - not sure why that was as I thought they came out of the same building but the Fulton was something of a disappointment.
 
In an uncharacteristic surge of customer friendliness, Gun-Tests now has their archives open to subscribers at no charge.
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I'm still keeping the paper, though...:)
 
there are some decent SxS's in that $1000 range, but many are used, not new. But many of those are fine guns, enough to give you the flavor of the SxS and see if you like it.
I think the new CZ's are probably the best copy of a SxS at the $1000 mark. (although they are heavy compared to a higher end SxS)

Of course, once you do that, you'll then want a higher end one (that $3000 range) and begin to think that $7000 for a SxS seems perfectly normal. :p

Just warning ya.
 
While many people turn their noses up at anything made in Japan (but drive Toyotas, Hondas, and Nissans !?), I personally think you would be well served by a Browning BSS, a Winchester Model 23, or a Parker Reproduction in whatever configuration you prefer. You can dump some major bucks on some of the Parkers and Winchesters, but a lot of them are within reach, too. Unless you shoot a pretty fair amount, I do not feel you can switch guns a lot and still shoot efficiently. I do not hunt nearly as much as I once did, and hence I have sold off or am selling off all my doubles, except one. Love that BSS Sporter in 20 gauge.
If you take care of any of these, and decide you do not want to have a double, you will not lose any money. I paid $540 for the Browning many moons ago, and they are going for $2400 now.
 
I agree that the Japanese SXS are well-made; however, IMO, if you want a SXS that is usually better balanced, a well-made Spanish, Arrietta, AyA, Grulla, even an Uggie, will do well and usually be a little less than a nice Italian. Also look at Merkel. You can find both European and American-made from the 20's and 30's sometimes that will work - however be sure to have the chambers verified for proper length...

good luck in your quest
 
I wouldn't buy ANY 2500 dollar shotgun without picking it up and checking fit first. It'd better be perfect. Oh, I guess you could have a stock tailored for it, I mean, if you're spending that much anyway. Nice gun needs to fit right, all I'm sayin'.

Of course, I'm monetarily challenged. :D If I had a a few billion in assets, I wouldn't be so cheap. Hell, if I had a million in assets, I'd loosen up some money. LOL I STILL don't know if I could actually USE a shotgun that expensive, though. One spot of rust or one scratch on the stock and I'd go bonkers. I love to look at a fine double as much as anyone, but jeez, take one out of the case? :eek:
 
I wouldn't buy ANY 2500 dollar shotgun without picking it up and checking fit first.
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I hear that.

I'm just coming around to where I'm thinking of selling off crap I don't use and re-purposing the cash.

The Ugabuga from Lion Country Supply mentioned above starts at $1395 new. It has extractors, but I find myself having to catch or pick up hulls most of the time anyway... Probably makes for lighter tension when opening the fired gun, too.

Tempting.

Bear in mind that I won't be hunting salt marshes with the thing.:)

San Diego beach areas used to have waterfowl hunting, but population has risen a bit since then.

Yesterday, I got to try out a Beretta Silver Hawk 20. I'd buy one of those, if I had the money burning a hole in my pocket. NICE gun. I should have bought that used one in 12 for $650 a year or two ago. Damn.
 
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