After Exploring for 2 Years, It's Time to Settle Down

[tmd16556]

I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately too. 9mm and 38 special use so little powder the costs don’t matter much there unless you’re loading a lot. You can get 1100-1500 per pound of powder. I want to be able to have 1-2 powders to cover those two and shotgun loads (which do eat up pistol powders faster with 300-400 per pound).

I think I could cover it all with unique and 800X. The problem is unique is hard to find and 800X is discontinued (and metered horribly). I think it will take at least two powders since 20 gauge 1oz loads demand a slow burning powder. I’ve got HS-6 and Longshot to try there. Replacing the faster burning side is harder. I’ve been playing with 700x lately but it’s bulky stuff.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I am reluctant to use CFE 223 in my 308 PA-10 any more. It’s just given me trouble in the past. Even with an adjustable gas block, it’s setting is quite a ways off from the other loads. I do have some 150 grain FMJ I plan to try with AR Plus and H335 and maybe TAC. The first one to group under 2 MOA will be the one I choose.

Good point. I was using it in a bolt gun.

 

[Blue68f100]

I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately too. 9mm and 38 special use so little powder the costs don’t matter much there unless you’re loading a lot. You can get 1100-1500 per pound of powder. I want to be able to have 1-2 powders to cover those two and shotgun loads (which do eat up pistol powders faster with 300-400 per pound).

I think I could cover it all with unique and 800X. The problem is unique is hard to find and 800X is discontinued (and metered horribly). I think it will take at least two powders since 20 gauge 1oz loads demand a slow burning powder. I’ve got HS-6 and Longshot to try there. Replacing the faster burning side is harder. I’ve been playing with 700x lately but it’s bulky stuff.

HS6/W540 was what Winchester used in their factory ammo in the 70's. This was published in the free reloading guide. That alone with a WAA20-F1 wad which got discontinued many decades ago.

 

[DMW1116]

First, the more I look into this the more I realize this is mostly about cost. I want the cheapest load that meets my minimum standard. See the FMJ requirement above. The Shooters World powders are locally available and much cheaper, so even in pistol cartridges the cost becomes noticeable. I broke down the cost of most of my rifle and pistol loads. This seems obvious to most people, but I just figured out there are some loads I'm just not willing to give up because of how well they shoot. Then I have practice loads that are half or less the cost of the high-end loads but get 75% or more the performance of the others. If it continues to work as well as yesterday, the AR Plus/A-Max load will shoot just a little worse than the 175 grain SMK load at 60% the cost.

 

[wcwhitey]

It’s an evolution I went through as well. I “magnumized” everything for a while. Made super ammo for situations that would probably never arise. Mostly I just developed loads that are accurate and cheap to shoot with the exception of a few field/hunting combos. I did get caught out during this COVID shortage powder wise. So I had to try a few different things. I am down to Unique, 231 and Win244 with lead bullets for 90% of my handgun shooting and am well stocked. I don’t carry reloads as defensive ammo. My loads don’t care what brand of primer I use. If I want to mix up the shooting experience I just shoot a different caliber. .32, .38, .357, .44 Special, .44 Magnum and .45 ACP are always in my ammo locker ready to go. My rifle shooting has dropped to almost zero other than rimfire but I have a ton loaded and enough components to pick up where I left off if I need to. I have had good luck with 3031 in .223 and have plenty on the side. Buy it cheap and stack it deep!

 

[Horskinator]

I tried to find a happy medium in how I choose to stock components, some decisions were cost based and some is for what works well enough for the intended application. For all my pistol loads I use Unique. I was able to get stocked up decently before the disappearance of it. For my rifles it is a little more broad. I have many pounds to try and develop with however I stocked H335 & IMR4064. I missed the boat on the IMR4350 in bulk (8#) but then again I have 3# of IMR 4320 and another 3-4 of IMR4350 still on hand and that should cover what I need it for. Now I am looking for a few different bullets for my rifle applications and cannot find them and I am not where I need to be on primers.

 

[DMW1116]

I have enough primers to go for a while. I don’t shoot high volume but I do go once a week or so. I usually have loads to check or zero to confirm or something like that. Yesterday I shot 12 rounds of 308 and twice that in 223. That’s a pretty heavy day for me rifle wise.

Volume is higher for pistols so that’s where I’m most trying to consolidate. I’ve only found one really accurate load in 9mm and I’m not willing to give that up even if the components don’t mix for anything else. 38 only has one very accurate load too but I feel confident I could find another if necessary.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I have enough primers to go for a while. I don’t shoot high volume but I do go once a week or so. I usually have loads to check or zero to confirm or something like that. Yesterday I shot 12 rounds of 308 and twice that in 223. That’s a pretty heavy day for me rifle wise.

Volume is higher for pistols so that’s where I’m most trying to consolidate. I’ve only found one really accurate load in 9mm and I’m not willing to give that up even if the components don’t mix for anything else. 38 only has one very accurate load too but I feel confident I could find another if necessary.

38 is easy if you go to bullseye, red dot, 700x etc. They all work very well with low case fill.
I hear you on having a pet load that isn't going anywhere.
I run 77 SMKs in my 556 rifles because I can't get anything that gets close to them in accuracy, wind drift, and on game performance.
I tried 8 different bullets. Oddly the closest thing in my guns is a 55sp. The only thing that bumped it from the list is the wind.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Threads like this are how I ended up reloading on a barstool using components stored in boxes, bins, and footlockers. I don’t mean I read a thread or article about minimizing the reloading footprint and followed it. Just the opposite, I decided to see just how minimalist I could go and still make ammo that exceeded both my accuracy needs and shooting volume. The decision I made was to concentrate on the storage aspect and let the location “float.” Essentially, I looked for a way to make the world my reloading room and be dammed with the extraneous accoutrements. I’m not shooting paper at ballistic missile distances. Never will. I’m not trying to mimic a Gatling Gun with a revolver. Never will. The only person I “compete with” is me; and I’m pretty easy to beat.
But - first, foremost and most importantly - don’t do what I do. It won’t work for you. You’re not me.

 

[ballman6711]

@GeoDudeFlorida That is 100% the way to be. I compete against myself as well.

I was at the range a while back, shooting my 3" 1911 with my 185gr swc reloads. On a good day I can hit a can at 25 yards two or three times every five shots or so. I let a guy shoot my gun (with my reloads) and he hit it four out of five. He missed the first one by about an inch or so. I continued to shoot, and enjoyed thinking how accurate my reloads were, and not about how he shot my gun better than me without having ever seen or shot it before.

I found out before he left that he was LEO, Swat to be specific. I watched him shoot a bit that day, and he was very good. But I still didn't feel like I was competing against him, just competing against myself and trying to improve my (limited) skills.

chris

 

[DMW1116]

38 is easy if you go to bullseye, red dot, 700x etc. They all work very well with low case fill.
I hear you on having a pet load that isn't going anywhere.
I run 77 SMKs in my 556 rifles because I can't get anything that gets close to them in accuracy, wind drift, and on game performance.
I tried 8 different bullets. Oddly the closest thing in my guns is a 55sp. The only thing that bumped it from the list is the wind.

I plan to try W231. Silhouette works well, though it's not known as a 38 Special Powder. It's good in 9mm too though it was behind in accuracy on my target load. I think I just got really lucky with that though. I need to try it in 357 Magnum but there isn't any load data for it. I'm also kinda hanging on to this bottle to try with some light Lehigh bullets to see about breaking the 1,600-fps barrier and to try in my 9mm rifle.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I plan to try W231. Silhouette works well, though it's not known as a 38 Special Powder. It's good in 9mm too though it was behind in accuracy on my target load. I think I just got really lucky with that though. I need to try it in 357 Magnum but there isn't any load data for it. I'm also kinda hanging on to this bottle to try with some light Lehigh bullets to see about breaking the 1,600-fps barrier and to try in my 9mm rifle.

231 seems to be the go to for a lot of folks in a lot of cartridges. Haven't tried it because it's availability was so hit and miss where I was.
I happened on a $15 bottle of titewad and tested it in 38. It's my new favorite. But there isn't data. So I don't recommend for liability reasons.
I've tried so many different powders that I got sick of it. Because there wasn't a clear winner. Each one has a downfall.

 

[DMW1116]

231 seems to be the go to for a lot of folks in a lot of cartridges. Haven't tried it because it's availability was so hit and miss where I was.
I happened on a $15 bottle of titewad and tested it in 38. It's my new favorite. But there isn't data. So I don't recommend for liability reasons.
I've tried so many different powders that I got sick of it. Because there wasn't a clear winner. Each one has a downfall.

You've said what I was starting to think anyway. I like W231 because loads require so little, and I can use it in my 30-30 for cheap practice ammo. If I'm correct and that 4th shot was a flier when testing light target loads for 357 Magnum, then W231 has produced the most accurate handgun ammo I've tested. Three shots were nearly touching at 25 yards. The power isn't there, but that seems to be a needle threading load. There is the shortcoming.

Consolidating down to W231 for all my handgunning needs wouldn't be a bad place to be if the accuracy is there. I wouldn't bristle too much at having to keep a pound of 2400 and a pound of Silhouette around for those hotter 9mm and heavy 357 Magnum loads. Rifles would be more challenging. My order of 52 grain Match Burners came in today, so I'll know more after retesting a forgotten TAC loading with them and some FMJ in 308.

 

[Bfh_auto]

You've said what I was starting to think anyway. I like W231 because loads require so little, and I can use it in my 30-30 for cheap practice ammo. If I'm correct and that 4th shot was a flier when testing light target loads for 357 Magnum, then W231 has produced the most accurate handgun ammo I've tested. Three shots were nearly touching at 25 yards. The power isn't there, but that seems to be a needle threading load. There is the shortcoming.

Consolidating down to W231 for all my handgunning needs wouldn't be a bad place to be if the accuracy is there. I wouldn't bristle too much at having to keep a pound of 2400 and a pound of Silhouette around for those hotter 9mm and heavy 357 Magnum loads. Rifles would be more challenging. My order of 52 grain Match Burners came in today, so I'll know more after retesting a forgotten TAC loading with them and some FMJ in 308.

You could always move to H4895 or benchmark. They cover all three cartridges without the sensitivity of ball powder. I only use ball powders in rifles that are only used in a narrow temperature range. My varmint guns wouldn't stay in their accuracy nodes when I did. My CFE223 load in 22-250 needed a full grain different to not blow primers between winter and summer.
Deer rifles didn't have that problem because I only shot them in the fall/winter.

 

[P Flados]

A number of years ago, I did something of a focused effort on "best combination of price/performance" for my volume shooting needs.

A big item for me was the total lack of reasonable cost over the counter reloading supplies. As such, I went all in for on-line sources. The hazmat extra hurts for small orders, but becomes much less significant with bulk purchases. I threw in the shipping / hazmat for a typical bulk order (4 jugs) and calculated cost per round of each powder for all my ammo I load in large quantities.

I was fortunate at the time and most all powders were available.

At the fast end of of the burn rate spectrum, the winners were Promo (bulk version of Red Dot) and TiteGroup. I like Promo better for most things, but it does not meter well in small charges and Titegroup will give me a little more top end velocity for some specific rounds. These two cover all my target / plinking type ammo for handguns. If I could not have gotten the Promo, 700x would have been reasonable alternate.

In the low-middle of the burn rate spectrum, I ended up with 2 selections.

Shooters World Heavy Pistol is close to 2400 in performance, is not "finicky" like H110 and does great for things like full power 357 Magnums. I really do not use this in any high volume application, so the 10 lbs (two 5# jugs) I bought should last a while.

I have a couple of special application (357 Max for IHMSA, 300 BO) that really need something slightly slower. I stumbled across some WC 680 (milsurp version of 1680) and included a 8# jug of it in an order I was placing for rifle powder. After burning a good portion of this jug in short order, I kept watch for more. Eventually I scored some more and now have a stash of several jugs.

I do not load for anything that needs a slow rifle powder. Therefore I really wanted to select only one Rifle Powder and buy several 8# jugs of the stuff. In the best "combination of price/performance" category for rifle powders I considered WC 844 (milsurp for H335) and WC-846 (milsurp for BL-C2). The WC 844 got the nod as looked better for 223, and some of my IHMSA needs (30 Herrett, 7 TCU). It will also work for all my rifle stuff that I load very infrequently like 30-30 and 30-06. After using most of my original bulk order, I did a second bulk order and my stash is still over 4 jugs.

As you can see, Milsurp has been a big part of my answer to least cost per round fired. Right now, the easy to use (directly compares to commercial stuff) milsurp stuff that I found is not available. For now, about the only Milsurp you will find is very slow rifle powders from Jeff Bartlett (gibrass.com) and some odd stuff at American Reloading. Some of the odd stuff was actually tempting, but note that stuff comes and goes pretty fast at their web site, americanreloading.com.