calzoom
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Mayor Nickels and common sense have never been in the same room together. 
After Tacoma shooting: Mayor Nickels wants state AWB plus more!
- Thread starter Cesiumsponge
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Old Dog
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More nonsense in this morning's P-I:
Thursday, January 4, 2007
Renewed call for tougher gun laws
Nickels appeals again to Legislature
By HECTOR CASTRO
P-I REPORTER
On a morning when a school shooting grabbed headlines yet again, Seattle Mayor Greg Nickels urged state lawmakers for the second year in a row to pass tougher gun laws.
"We have some of the weakest gun laws in America," Nickels said Wednesday, flanked by police Chief Gil Kerlikowske and Special Agent Kelvin Crenshaw, who heads the Seattle office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
Besides calling for stricter laws, the news conference allowed the ATF to announce the opening of a regional gun-tracing center in Seattle, and it gave the police a chance to tout the results of a tracing effort launched seven years ago.
"We want to find out if those guns are involved in other shootings," Kerlikowske said.
Nickels and Kerlikowske have long championed tougher laws regulating firearms. Nickels helped form Mayors Against Gun Violence. Kerlikowske supported extending the federal ban on assault rifles, which the Bush administration allowed to expire, and opposes proposed federal legislation that would prohibit the ATF from sharing gun-tracing information with local police agencies.
Like many large cities across the country, Seattle has seen a rise in violent crimes and crimes involving firearms after years of decline. [Seattle has so few homicides -- really, only a handful per year --, compared, for example, to cities of comparable size (or smaller -- Flint, MI, that even two or three homicides in a year constitutes a "rise" ...]
Over the New Year's weekend, there were at least four shootings that left three people wounded in Seattle.
Three others were shot Monday in a bowling alley brawl in nearby Skyway. And on Wednesday, a student at Foss High School in Tacoma was shot and killed.
Nickels also noted two horrific shootings in Seattle last year: the March rampage that claimed the lives of six young people at a Capitol Hill home and that of the gunman; and the attack in July at the Jewish Federation's offices downtown, which left one woman dead and five wounded.
"This has got to stop," Nickels said.
Repeating points he raised before last year's legislative session, Nickels appealed for:
A ban on certain guns classified as assault weapons. Police say they have seized 140 of the weapons in the past five years, 37 of them connected to violent crimes.
A state law requiring background checks for gun purchases at gun shows. [Of particular note here is the fact that the only Puget Sound-area shows worth attending, the Washington Arms Collector shows, require that one be a member and pass the NICS checks when buying or selling firearms (unless doing private-party deals, and most WAC members are a bit too savvy to knowingly sell their guns to criminals)]
A requirement for safe gun storage that Nickels said he hoped would reduce firearm thefts and accidental shootings.
Sen. Jeanne Kohl-Welles, D-Seattle, said there is talk of reviving efforts to close the gun show loophole, which failed to get out of committee in 2005. The bill would require anyone buying a firearm at a gun show to undergo the same background check required when buying firearms from a sporting goods store or other licensed dealer.
"This one makes so much common sense," Kohl-Welles said, noting that it requires nothing that isn't already required of people buying guns from a shop. "Responsible gun owners should have nothing to be concerned about this bill."
Opposition is certain.
In a statement Wednesday, the Bellevue-based Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms argued that none of the shootings cited by Nickels would have been prevented by passage of the laws he proposes.
But if the gun show loophole isn't closed, Sen. Adam Kline said, investigators have no way of measuring how many firearms used in crimes are bought through gun shows.
"We have a sneaking suspicion that we can't prove that criminals go shopping at gun shows, but we don't document the sales," said Kline, a Seattle Democrat. [If they could have proved that criminals go shopping at gun shows, they certainly would have by now.]
Gun-tracing data the Seattle police are collecting show that most criminals caught with a firearm aren't buying their weapons from the local gun stores .[Yep, more laws that only law-abiding citizens will obey will certainly nip this situation in the bud.]
From January 2000 to March 2005, police traced 2,172 firearms taken in investigations and found that just 13 percent had been bought from a licensed dealer. The vast majority of criminals are getting their guns from other sources. Some are stolen, others obtained via the black market, gun shows or friends and relatives.
Of the 551 guns actually used in crimes, police found that 83 percent were obtained in the Seattle area.
Nickels suggested that the police database could be used to identify dealers whose firearms are showing up more often in the hands of criminals. But Kerlikowske would not say whether any local gun sellers are being investigated.
"I don't want to go there," he said. [Perhaps because local gun sellers aren't stupidly selling to criminals?]
P-I reporter Hector Castro can be reached at 206-903-5396 or [email protected].
Thursday, January 4, 2007
Renewed call for tougher gun laws
Nickels appeals again to Legislature
By HECTOR CASTRO
P-I REPORTER
On a morning when a school shooting grabbed headlines yet again, Seattle Mayor Greg Nickels urged state lawmakers for the second year in a row to pass tougher gun laws.
"We have some of the weakest gun laws in America," Nickels said Wednesday, flanked by police Chief Gil Kerlikowske and Special Agent Kelvin Crenshaw, who heads the Seattle office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
Besides calling for stricter laws, the news conference allowed the ATF to announce the opening of a regional gun-tracing center in Seattle, and it gave the police a chance to tout the results of a tracing effort launched seven years ago.
"We want to find out if those guns are involved in other shootings," Kerlikowske said.
Nickels and Kerlikowske have long championed tougher laws regulating firearms. Nickels helped form Mayors Against Gun Violence. Kerlikowske supported extending the federal ban on assault rifles, which the Bush administration allowed to expire, and opposes proposed federal legislation that would prohibit the ATF from sharing gun-tracing information with local police agencies.
Like many large cities across the country, Seattle has seen a rise in violent crimes and crimes involving firearms after years of decline. [Seattle has so few homicides -- really, only a handful per year --, compared, for example, to cities of comparable size (or smaller -- Flint, MI, that even two or three homicides in a year constitutes a "rise" ...]
Over the New Year's weekend, there were at least four shootings that left three people wounded in Seattle.
Three others were shot Monday in a bowling alley brawl in nearby Skyway. And on Wednesday, a student at Foss High School in Tacoma was shot and killed.
Nickels also noted two horrific shootings in Seattle last year: the March rampage that claimed the lives of six young people at a Capitol Hill home and that of the gunman; and the attack in July at the Jewish Federation's offices downtown, which left one woman dead and five wounded.
"This has got to stop," Nickels said.
Repeating points he raised before last year's legislative session, Nickels appealed for:
A ban on certain guns classified as assault weapons. Police say they have seized 140 of the weapons in the past five years, 37 of them connected to violent crimes.
A state law requiring background checks for gun purchases at gun shows. [Of particular note here is the fact that the only Puget Sound-area shows worth attending, the Washington Arms Collector shows, require that one be a member and pass the NICS checks when buying or selling firearms (unless doing private-party deals, and most WAC members are a bit too savvy to knowingly sell their guns to criminals)]
A requirement for safe gun storage that Nickels said he hoped would reduce firearm thefts and accidental shootings.
Sen. Jeanne Kohl-Welles, D-Seattle, said there is talk of reviving efforts to close the gun show loophole, which failed to get out of committee in 2005. The bill would require anyone buying a firearm at a gun show to undergo the same background check required when buying firearms from a sporting goods store or other licensed dealer.
"This one makes so much common sense," Kohl-Welles said, noting that it requires nothing that isn't already required of people buying guns from a shop. "Responsible gun owners should have nothing to be concerned about this bill."
Opposition is certain.
In a statement Wednesday, the Bellevue-based Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms argued that none of the shootings cited by Nickels would have been prevented by passage of the laws he proposes.
But if the gun show loophole isn't closed, Sen. Adam Kline said, investigators have no way of measuring how many firearms used in crimes are bought through gun shows.
"We have a sneaking suspicion that we can't prove that criminals go shopping at gun shows, but we don't document the sales," said Kline, a Seattle Democrat. [If they could have proved that criminals go shopping at gun shows, they certainly would have by now.]
Gun-tracing data the Seattle police are collecting show that most criminals caught with a firearm aren't buying their weapons from the local gun stores .[Yep, more laws that only law-abiding citizens will obey will certainly nip this situation in the bud.]
From January 2000 to March 2005, police traced 2,172 firearms taken in investigations and found that just 13 percent had been bought from a licensed dealer. The vast majority of criminals are getting their guns from other sources. Some are stolen, others obtained via the black market, gun shows or friends and relatives.
Of the 551 guns actually used in crimes, police found that 83 percent were obtained in the Seattle area.
Nickels suggested that the police database could be used to identify dealers whose firearms are showing up more often in the hands of criminals. But Kerlikowske would not say whether any local gun sellers are being investigated.
"I don't want to go there," he said. [Perhaps because local gun sellers aren't stupidly selling to criminals?]
P-I reporter Hector Castro can be reached at 206-903-5396 or [email protected].
And it begins......
HB 1026 - 2007-08 - Regulating the sale of firearms at gun shows and events.
http://washingtonvotes.org/2007-HB-1026
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=1026&year=2007
HB 1014 - 2007-08 - Encouraging safe storage of firearms.
http://washingtonvotes.org/2007-HB-1014
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=1014&year=2007
Everyone had better get ready to make the drive to Olympia on hearing day! Without a good showing of gun owners these probably have a good chance of coming to vote. This year is favorable for Washington anti-gunners to push their long awaited useless legislation - and they have the votes folks!
Joe Waldron at Washington GOAL will send out timely email updates I am sure.
Email him at [email protected] to subscribe to the Washington GOAL alerts.
HB 1026 - 2007-08 - Regulating the sale of firearms at gun shows and events.
http://washingtonvotes.org/2007-HB-1026
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=1026&year=2007
HB 1014 - 2007-08 - Encouraging safe storage of firearms.
http://washingtonvotes.org/2007-HB-1014
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=1014&year=2007
Everyone had better get ready to make the drive to Olympia on hearing day! Without a good showing of gun owners these probably have a good chance of coming to vote. This year is favorable for Washington anti-gunners to push their long awaited useless legislation - and they have the votes folks!
Joe Waldron at Washington GOAL will send out timely email updates I am sure.
Email him at [email protected] to subscribe to the Washington GOAL alerts.
dave_pro2a said:
I'm in Seattle, and didn't see anyone say that on the news. Do you have a reference for that?
The shooter also had a clean record, no prior criminal history.
http://www.kndo.com/Global/story.asp?S=5887971&nav=menu484_2_9
longeyes said:
The comment about how it wasn't a random shooting wasn't in response to you, it was to the poster who'd posted directly above me. I wouldn't say "tribalism" is gaining much more of a foothold. In places where many people of different backgrounds intermingle, the immigrant families become more americanized as time goes on. The kids of immigrant families who came when they were early youth or were born here, speak english as their primary language.
Anyway, in this case, the only facts we've got so far pertaining to the issue, is one, that the police don't believe it was gang related, and two, that the suspect has had no prior criminal record. I think it is jumping to conclusions to assume it's gang related when you don't have anything to base that on.
While you don't have facts and can't speak with authority, there is alot of context and probability to base such a guess off of. Statistically how many young people are executed in this fashion for reasons outside of drugs and gang violence? We'll probably find out in the near future just what the true motivation was but one can certainly make an educated guess based on past events as to the likely cause.
dave_pro2a
Member
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razorburn: It was on either Komo or King. What I typed was verbatim, or dang close to it.
We have some facts. And they all indicate that this wasn't a gang related shooting.
So you're saying this is an educated guess based on statistics .. Do you have the statistics about how many young people are shot for reasons outside gang violence?
Autolycus
Member
Those 2 little words that destroy the rights of many Americans... Common Sense. It is common sense that we should not blame the weapon. We should blame the criminal. Why not once wont they just say lets ban (insert name of criminal). Its common sense.
Common Sense aint so common and he dont have the sense to know that.
Cliff47
Member
Mayor Greg Nickels sounds like a pawn of the Washington CeaseFire and Brady Bunch.
FourTeeFive
Member
MD_Willington
Member
Both can be commented on, not sure if that will change anything though.
Find you Legislator:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/districtfinder/
I plan on contacting mine, even though I am not allowed to vote until I become a naturalized citizen.
HB 1026 - 2007-08
(1) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (6) of this section, a person who, while at a gun show or event, offers to sell or transfer a firearm to another person must be licensed as a dealer under 18 U.S.C. Sec. 923 and post the license in accordance with 27 C.F.R. Secs. 178.91 and 178.100(a).
Okay I'm no legal expert, but to me this looks like an underhanded way to disolve all guns shows simply because it requires anyone selling a firearm to be a FFL?
(4) The Washington state patrol will establish a reasonable fee to cover costs for each background check conducted at a gun show or event.
This looks like they are just looking for a way to impose a new tax on anyone that purchases at a gun show.
House Bill 1014 (Encouraging safe storage of firearms.)
Every store, shop, or sales outlet where firearms are sold, that is registered as a dealer in firearms with the department of licensing, shall conspicuously post, in a prominent location so that all patrons may take notice, the following warning sign, to be provided by the department of licensing, in block letters at least one inch in height: "IT IS UNLAWFUL TO STORE OR LEAVE AN UNSECURED, LOADED FIREARM WHERE A CHILD CAN AND DOES OBTAIN POSSESSION."
Man this could be bad actually, I've filled out forms from the DOL, they come in a dozen or so languages, all it would take is a little tweaking of the bill and you'd end up with a sign the size of a small billboard that must be prominently displayed. Sounds like a big hassle, but that is the name of the game they are playing, hassle everyone enough so that they will give up.
dave_pro2a
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HB 1026 - 2007-08 - Regulating the sale of firearms at gun shows and events.
HB 1014 - 2007-08 - Encouraging safe storage of firearms.
Yes, these 2 kind of laws made Los Angeles REALLY safe huh.
You can't expect different outcomes from repeating the same experiement.
HB 1014 - 2007-08 - Encouraging safe storage of firearms.
Yes, these 2 kind of laws made Los Angeles REALLY safe huh.
You can't expect different outcomes from repeating the same experiement.
MD_Willington
Member
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm
The "loop hole" is rediculous, the FBI concluded that the vast majority of inmates get their firearms from anywhere but guns shows...
:banghead:
The "loop hole" is rediculous, the FBI concluded that the vast majority of inmates get their firearms from anywhere but guns shows...
:banghead:
MD_Willington
Member
I sent the following to my Legislators:
George S.
Member
Although the TPD is still saying the shooting was not apparently gang related, the shooter had, according to articles in the Tacoma News Tribune, been seen in the company of gang members and when he was arraigned in court, his tennis shoes were tied with bright blue laces. Blue is the color of the Crips, a well-known nationwide gang and there is a definite Crips presence in Tacoma.
We will know at some point whether or not the shooter actually had some sort of gang affilliation. Maybe the shooting was some sort of initiation; maybe it was for something as simple (or stupid) as a comment about some gang-banger friends. Whatever it was, my $0.02 is that this was an assasination/exectution.
What will be interesting to see is when the TPD releases information about the 9mm pistol that was used in the shooting. They know it was stolen in 1999 and are checking to see if this pistol was used in previous crimes.
There's going to be a lot more to come out about this deal.
We will know at some point whether or not the shooter actually had some sort of gang affilliation. Maybe the shooting was some sort of initiation; maybe it was for something as simple (or stupid) as a comment about some gang-banger friends. Whatever it was, my $0.02 is that this was an assasination/exectution.
What will be interesting to see is when the TPD releases information about the 9mm pistol that was used in the shooting. They know it was stolen in 1999 and are checking to see if this pistol was used in previous crimes.
There's going to be a lot more to come out about this deal.
dave_pro2a
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Heck, the gun could belong to the Police Chief of Seattle!
http://www.komotv.com/news/archive/4141486.html
"SEATTLE - Anyone could be a victim of a crime, even the chief of police.
Someone broke into Seattle Police Chief Gil Kerlikowske's car and stole his handgun last week.
The car prowler struck some time between 10 a.m. and 3 p.m. on December 26. Chief Kerlikowske's car was parked at 6th Avenue and Olive Street downtown.
Seattle Police won't say how the thief broke into the car or how the gun was stored.
"I don't have exact details as to where the gun was in the car, but I can tell you that it was secured in the car," said Seattle Police spokesman Sean Whitcomb. "It wouldn't have been available to anyone just wandering by."
The gun was a 9mm Glock handgun, model number 26. The Chief drives a city-issued unmarked Ford Crown Victoria."
http://www.komotv.com/news/archive/4141486.html
"SEATTLE - Anyone could be a victim of a crime, even the chief of police.
Someone broke into Seattle Police Chief Gil Kerlikowske's car and stole his handgun last week.
The car prowler struck some time between 10 a.m. and 3 p.m. on December 26. Chief Kerlikowske's car was parked at 6th Avenue and Olive Street downtown.
Seattle Police won't say how the thief broke into the car or how the gun was stored.
"I don't have exact details as to where the gun was in the car, but I can tell you that it was secured in the car," said Seattle Police spokesman Sean Whitcomb. "It wouldn't have been available to anyone just wandering by."
The gun was a 9mm Glock handgun, model number 26. The Chief drives a city-issued unmarked Ford Crown Victoria."
The kid can dress however he wants. When I was in HS, it was fairly popular with the kids to dress like gang members. In the same article you linked, the police state that they believe the shooting had to do with money issues, not gang related activity. The evidence against the idea that this was a gang related incident is still much heavier than for.
Was it also popular to be an illegal arms dealer, carry stolen handguns, and hang around with the gang members you were dressing like?
Time will tell, its still early in the investigation, and the shooter isn't talking. I'd be surprised if it isn't related to criminal activity, but you never know.
dave_pro2a
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Supposedly the perp was diagnosed as 'schizophrenic' 2 years ago, and at one time tried to commit suicide (king 5 tv 10pm, 1/5). Defense attorney is already floating an incompetance plea.
They finally mentioned his past history of dealing guns and bringing guns to school -- how that was known they did not say. Normally if you're caught with a firearm on campus you're 86ed, end of story, no 2nd chance.
They finally mentioned his past history of dealing guns and bringing guns to school -- how that was known they did not say. Normally if you're caught with a firearm on campus you're 86ed, end of story, no 2nd chance.
Lucky
Member
That's just silly. Everyone knows that the Democrats wouldn't pass anti-gun legislation yet. It's just gun dealers trying to make a buck by scaring you.
George S.
Member
That's already started in the WA Legislature. One state representative has already submitted legistlation that would close the so-called "gun-show loophole" and another bill that "encourages" more secure storing of firearms when childeren are present in the home.
The WA Legislature has just started and I fully expect to see some sort of AWB legislation. The Seattle mayor is going to be riding on his high horse to get his anti-gun agenda passed.
The WA Legislature has just started and I fully expect to see some sort of AWB legislation. The Seattle mayor is going to be riding on his high horse to get his anti-gun agenda passed.
MD_Willington
Member
Yes they have, but one was submitted December 21.
HB 1026 - 2007-08 - Regulating the sale of firearms at gun shows and events.
http://washingtonvotes.org/2007-HB-1026
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summ...1026&year=2007
HB 1014 - 2007-08 - Encouraging safe storage of firearms.
http://washingtonvotes.org/2007-HB-1014
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summ...1014&year=2007
Contact your legisators, I have.
MD
HB 1026 - 2007-08 - Regulating the sale of firearms at gun shows and events.
http://washingtonvotes.org/2007-HB-1026
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summ...1026&year=2007
HB 1014 - 2007-08 - Encouraging safe storage of firearms.
http://washingtonvotes.org/2007-HB-1014
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summ...1014&year=2007
Contact your legisators, I have.
MD
FourTeeFive
Member
My guess is a love triangle, unrequited gay crush, or something similar. Why else would he be that paranoid about not wanting it in the news? He already murdered someone. So it sounds like it is something very personal, something he wouldn't want attached to his family's name. Just a thought...
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