Airsoft for practice?

[matai]

This may sound dumb as I've always thought airsoft guns were kinda stupid. But after playing with my nephews I thought it was pretty fun.

My question is, are there any spring airsoft handguns that could be used to supplement actual shooting practice? It seems that the skills would be pretty much the same.

Only thing is that the triggers on these seem really bad, but maybe that make the practice even better.

What do you guys think?

 

[Nasty]

Not in the sense of actual live fire practice, but they work great for your house clearing exercises and such.

I hunt my sons regularly.

Mom hunts me.

 

[Zerodefect]

I learned to snap shoot, point shoot, slice the pie, death funnel, sweet spot, clear rooms, with a paintball gun before I was old enough to even own a gun.

Funny how much of that transitions over to carbine classes.
Paintball>airsoft

 

[9mmepiphany]

i'd recommend spending the extra money and getting a green gas power airsoft pistol.

i have a KJW Sig 226, that i use for draw and mag change practice when i can't get out with my regular 226. the metal construction makes the balance close to the real thing...the problem is that the trigger feels so much better than any real gun that hasn't been tuned

 

[MrIzhevsk]

I had a two-tone KWC 1911 that was green gas and had blow back. Was a lot of fun to toy with and when I had the extra magazines it became a blast.

It was especially fun for when I was playing in a CQB arena and had to change magazines. The stress was definitely evident, I can still only imagine a real world situation after that.

 

[wally]

I've a "green gas" blow-back 1911-like (feels quite like my Para P13). I find it useful for practicing draws from a holster and "instinctive" shooting at 3-7 yards.

I took some slow motion video of it ( http://cid-5a242a1eb30332b3.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/MyTest ) and the "recoil" points the muzzle down since the momentum of the slide moving backwards is so much greater than the momentum of the plastic ball.

There is noting "green" about the gas, its basically propane with a bit of oil in it. Not very smart to use indoors and it smells pretty bad too.

--wally.

 

[BCRider]

I don't run around the house shooting it to "clear" rooms or anything but I bought a Walther PPK BB gun. It's all steel and the slide racks back just like the real thing. Sadly with our gun laws up this way it's as close as I can get to owning a true Sean Connery James Bond gun. And the fact that the PPK shape and mass feels so good in my hands just adds insult to injury.

I just wish it was actually a proper rifled barrel and used pellets since the BB's are only good for 3 inch groups at even only around 12 FEET away let alone 12 yards.

Shooting a bunch of airsoft balls around sounds like a good way to turn a room into a ball bearing skating rink and end up on your behind...

And hey, what the hell is wrong with CO2 cartridges instead of this propane and oil "green gas"? Plants need to breath too ya know!

 

[w_houle]

There is noting "green" about the gas, its basically propane with a bit of oil in it.

Umm.. no. It's R134A, it is not propane.

 

[BCRider]

Ah OK. Not propane.


I still say CO2 is a green gas. We breath it out and plants breath it in. How is that not green?

 

[Four Knives]

Umm.. no. It's R134A, it is not propane.

Wrong.
Green Gas operates at higher pressures and was specifically developed because R134a/HFC134a lose pressure in cool temperatures.

Usage
Green Gas is produced by airsoft manufacturers. In cooler climates, players often prefer to use Green Gas because HFC134a can be insufficient to cycle guns in cooler temperatures. A gun firing with Green Gas has more power than one with HFC134a, and therefore should be used with caution as it may damage guns which are not designed to handle the extra power, often making the slide/internals explode or be severely damaged. The magazines are also a weak point, needing to be resealed to take Green Gas. Generally, guns made in Japan cannot handle Green Gas in their stock form, the plastic slide can sometimes be replaced with an aftermarket metal one, although depending on the model, other aftermarket upgrade parts may also be required. Guns produced for the Taiwan market can generally take the higher power gasses.

Propane adapter
After researching the properties of Green Gas, it was determined by Carlton Chong of Airsoft Innovations that Green Gas is propane with silicone oil added. Since Green Gas propellant is propane, some airsofters are increasing the economy of consuming the propellant by using consumer available propane canisters originally used for fueling camping stoves, lanterns, barbecues and welding torches. To provide compatibility between the airsoft Gas Blow Back guns and the propane canister outlet, a propane canister adapter, produced by Airsoft Innovations, must be used and silicone lubricant needs to be dropped into the tank valve every 8 to 10 magazine fills (in the case of a blowback gun). However using propane is not recommended for guns with non metal internal parts because propane adds more power and can destroy the gun. If propane is used in a full metal gun remember that propane doesn't have silicone which lubricates the gun like green gas so for blowback guns it is important that they are well lubricated. If the gun is not lubricated it will not cycle as easily and will damage the gun. Green Gas Airsoft guns store the propellant in another cartridge and can be sent to companies for later sale.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Gas


Besides debating what Green Gas is, OP, I think a gas blowback airsoft is very valid for specific types of training.
Be advised that you should have good ventilation if practicing indoors.

 

[W.E.G.]

I use my airsoft Glock clone for short-range, draw-from-the-holster practice.



Rear sight is immovable, even though it appears to be set in a dovetail. Even the Glock rear-sight tool couldn't budge it.
Sights aren't perfectly regulated for my shooting technique.
My shots ALWAYS strike left of point of aim on ANY handgun that has sights adjusted to "mechanical zero."
(no need to post the pie-chart - I've seen it plenty, and I still shoot left)

...........................................~100 shots...........................................

 

[Four Knives]

Also, Gabe Suarez thinks highly of airsoft for Force on Force Training

 

[w_houle]

Wrong.
Green Gas operates at higher pressures and was specifically developed because R134a/HFC134a lose pressure in cool temperatures.
[Citation needed]
... and if you don't see the contradictory statement even in your own rebuttal

 

[Hatterasguy]

I learned how to really shoot as a kid playing with paintball and BB guns.

A gun is a gun.

 

[Coronach]

Airsoft is great for force on force in structured scenarios. I say structured, because in free-form, there is a tendency for the thing to devolve into a bunch of "let's shoot your buddy in the (_!_)" nonsense. Not that it has to do so, but the tendency is there.

I would prefer to use the real deal for presentation and manipulation training, since the balance and controls are real. Be safe, though. And, if all you have is airsoft, it's better than nothing.

Mike

 

[Four Knives]

Wrong.
Green Gas operates at higher pressures and was specifically developed because R134a/HFC134a lose pressure in cool temperatures.
[Citation needed]
... and if you don't see the contradictory statement even in your own rebuttal

The point here is not whether or not a citation is needed for a summary statement on wikipedia. The rest of the quoted information is valid.

The point here is that Green Gas is propane - I simply used wikipedia because that's what you pointed to for R134a and it's like nails on a chalkboard to me when people do the "ummm....no" thing.

Green Gas is Propane FAQ
1. Is green gas propane or is it like propane?

Green gas is not like propane. It is propane.

Green gas is not R22, or Co2, or "CH2FCF3CH3" (as seen on some bottles). It is merely run-of-the-mill propane, with a different scent added

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2. So it's really propane? How can you be sure?

Samples were sent to the Analest Laboratory at the University of Toronto where 3 brands of green gas (Jet, Green Power, Shooting Air) were analyzed with a gas chromatograph/mass spectrometer, an industry standard for organic gas assaying. All 3 gases were shown to be propane. Additionally 3 more brands have shown to be similarly flammable and exert the same pressure.

Test results, discussion and conclusions can be found in the Lab Data section, please read the Laboratory Analysis of Green Gas for more in-depth information.

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3. So, why should I fill my gun with propane instead of green gas?

If you use green gas, you're already using propane. Domestic propane is cheaper, comes in a safe container, and is available at any local hardware store. Airsoft bottled propane (green gas) has to be imported (which can take a long time).

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4. Isn't it flammable?

Green gas has always been flammable. Now that we know it's propane, nothing has changed. You should never ignite propane/green gas, or release it near an open flame. However, propane is fairly safe for normal use - we already use butane (another flammable gas) in many consumer products, such as shaving cream and hairspray, and propane is used as an industrial refridgerant (it's also known as HC290).

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5. How come green gas smells different than fuel propane?

Fuel propane is scented with mercaptan odourants for leak detection. By itself, propane has very little smell. Different bottlers of fuel propane use different odourants and so do green gas bottlers hence the different smells. Green gas and fuel propane are primarily propane so they all perform similarly in the end.

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Gas Chromatograph / Mass Spectrometer testing of Green Gas Conducted at the University of Toronto





I say again, Green Gas is Propane with lubricant and scent additives.

 

[Four Knives]

@ Coronach -

Couldn't agree more.
In a structured (and sterile) setting, adults using gas blowback airsoft for force on force training is tough to beat, especially considering the cost and availability of simunitions.

Anyone who plans on indoor practice, let me reiterate the importance of proper safety considerations - a buildup of green gas or any flammable propellant can easily catch spark from your thermostat or any in home pilot lights, not to mention you could easily pass out from the fumes.

 

[Nasty]

To clarify...*I* am the intruder in our house. My wife is doing our home version of "Force on Force" to practice her tactics on how to protect the kids against me.

I ought to tell you about our zombie training...lol

 

[mordechaianiliewicz]

I have used Airsoft before for disarmament training. And for fun.... not much else though.

 

[Ben86]

Airsoft guns can be a valuable training supplement. There are high quality gas powered replicas available for many gun models. I use mine mainly for some rousing force on force training. I also use them to shoot inside my house if I can't go out and shoot. They are also useful training aids when teaching first time shooters, or disarming and gun retention. Oh, and they are useful for demonstrating to people how quickly someone can close the distance with a knife and other useful facts of combat. All in all a pretty useful training tool actually.

 

[mcdonl]

Me and my daughters like airsoft for doing the back to back take 10 paces turn and fire game.

 

[NG VI]

I've got one I bought at Walmart, Dick's has the same thing but also black, I believe it's called the C11 mag or something like that, powered by CO2, rated at 400FPS, it's great, it is actually pretty accurate so long as you feed it what it likes, the heavy balls.

I'm going to hang up a towel to use as a backstop and start shooting it indoors a bit I think. Any practice is better than no practice.

 

[Ben86]

Those C11 airmags are really good for the price. I got two for about $40 each.

 

[smince]

+1 on Airsoft/FoF training, GOTX training in your backyard/basement/garage etc.

It is a great training aid.

 

[matai]

I was just reading about some electric semi-auto handguns, that'd be much better than gas for indoors.