Airsoft - good training?

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TJK

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I'm going to the range weekly or twice a week, but I feel that the "target training" is missing something when you main purpose is HD.

What do you guys think about Airsoft and practicing with a replica of your own gun. IMHO, this should help with reaction time, close range shooting, and other situations that you are more likely to find in real-world scenario.

What do you think?
 
More and more people are using Airsoft in force on force training. Be sure to use appropriate safety precautions in doing so. Divest yourself of all 'live' weapons, and triple check each other before commencing, use appropriate eye/face and other... soft spot... protection (those things hurt at close range). They hurt enough to make you appropriately reluctant to get shot with one again, which is a useful lesson.

Use reasonable, realistic scenarios to make the training really useful. Be sure your sessions take place somewhere you cannot be observed by someone who doesn't know what's going on. Otherwise your local LEOs are likely to add an unwelcome aspect of reality to your training.

lpl
 
I got one of those green pas (propane) Glock look alikes for home/winter practice. Works great, accurate to 25 yards, fits it the same holster, has real mags etc. AND costs 1/4 of a real gun. For practice, especially inside it can't be beat.
 
It's a good and relatively cheap addition to other training. A decent Airsoft gun will have decent accuracy as well as looking and operating very similar to the real thing.

When I've done a show and tell at some courses I've taken with my Glock 19 vs a KWA G19 many are amazed at the similarities between the two guns. The KWA G19 field strips nearly exactly like the Glock 19, is blow back, the magazines are the same size as the Glock magazines so you can use your "real" holsters and mag carriers with the KWA G19 stuff.

Check out this youtube review of a KWA G19

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUNs0Zau4DE&feature=related

If you are shooting by yourself indoors you can also shoot paper targets and improve your regular target shooting skills. I'm cheap so when I shoot indoors I reuse the pellets until they break.
 
I keep a cheap one on my tv chair, it's empty but cocked(I don't own a real Glock so I know it, at worst, only has a pellet in it.) haven't had an 'AD/ND' in over 6 months that it's been there. Shooting isn't the only training they can be helpful with.
 
I would suggest that any force-on-force training should:

1. not "program" the participant to stop fighting when hit
2. allow de-escalate/disengage and less-lethal force options, especially if training private citizens
3. stress movement, cover, shot decision, and shot placement--it's very easy to have these sessions, if informal, degenerate into spray-and-pray free-for-alls
4. be followed by serious, critical debriefing
5. follow all safety precautions--eye, throat, and groin protection, weapons-exclusion zone, etc. (already posted by Mr. Lapin)

I'm sure I've left some stuff out. But training is training. Horsing around with Airsofts trying to give your younger brother bruises is not training.

Not that I'd ever do that. :evil:
 
How do you guys train with the airsoft pistols indoors? Sounds like a good idea, but I'd need a regiment as I have no idea where to start.
 
Always follow recommended safety procedures. Secure the real guns before the airsoft guns come out.

Stuff I've done with friends and roommates indoors w/ airsoft:

1) Room clearing. Let a couple people have a minute or two to go hide in the dwelling, then come in after them. Note: I did this with rehearsed Army folk. If it's not something you do for a living, I don't recommend that you do it in real life. In fact, the ultimate lesson learned is that if you're going against someone who knows you're coming and is ready for you, the guy who's primary through the door is is going to be shot most of the time.

2. King of the Hill. Play individually or in groups. If on teams, go to opposite ends of the dwelling. Both start on command. Last team standing wins. If playing as individuals, start counting to 30 and let everyone scatter. This game is more for fun than for anything else.

3. Retention. Have a friend try to take your airsoft from your ready position, or from your holster, and shoot you with it. Try not to let him.

4. Disarm. Same thing, but you're now trying to take the airsoft from your friend.
 
How could I train for HD?
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Play out the #1 Scenario I listed above, but start from your bedroom and have a couple buddies come into your place with airsoft guns. If you have kids you have a chance to see if you can execute your plan to secure them before a BG can make it to the bedrooms. If you don't, you're lucky in the sense of defense - take up a good covered position and wait for them to try to come into your room positively ID your target and open fire. Pick up your cell phone and simulate calling 911, while maintaining positive control of your weapon/position. I do not advocate clearing a home if you're not trained in it, and even though I don't recommend it without a good reason.

Another thing I just remembered - for playing airsoft indoors, you can turn off all the lights and play around with mounted/handheld lights. I came to the conclusion that each has their advantages - it's nice to have a free hand with the mounted light, but a handheld surefire held away from the body will draw fire away from your COM. Lights are better utilized in flashes than in "constant on" mode.

One more cautionary note - keep in mind that airsoft guns can break things like lightbulbs, and leave holes in blinds. Don't ask me how I know.
 
I say yes but do know they do not have the same charteristics as a real bullet they drop after about 5yards emensly and are slow enough to dodge if you are good enough lol
 
I say yes but do know they do not have the same charteristics as a real bullet they drop after about 5yards emensly and are slow enough to dodge if you are good enough lol
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That and know one is scared of being shot with a 6mm plastic pellet.
 
We've had several discussions on the pluses and minuses of Airsoft in training. Good trainers are using Airsoft in force on force training where Simunition had been used in the past. Other than those situations, you don't see Airsoft in use.
 
I practice with my airsoft gun everytime the cat jumps up on my dresser at 3:00 in the morning and starts knocking stuff off to wake me up.:):):)
 
I, personally, think they are a great training tool. I don't know anyone else around here who has one so my training with them is limited to non force on force most of the time(with the exception of a few guys I work with). I usually have my wife set up a few paper targets around the house and I practice clearing from the main entrance, bedroom, bathroom, etc. Wherever I think I could possibly be if something were to happen. I even have special target stands to use in the house(those little pellets are hard to find and hurt when you walk on one at 4:00am). I use my normal paper target stand only I put two sheets of card board behind the target and staple a pillow case to the back side of the card board. Most pellets are stopped by the first or second layer of card board and fall straight down and the rest hit the pillow case and do the same.

RONSTAR, nobody I have been able to do force on force training with was scared of being shot with a 6mm plastic pellet, including me, till it happened for the first time. They hurt, expecially if one hits you just above the goggles on the forehead. Try it sometime and I think you will be surprised.
 
All the guys who say "no" or "hell no" to using airsoft for training, can you state your experience trying it as a training tool and expound on your reasons why it didn't work?
 
All the guys who say "no" or "hell no" to using airsoft for training, can you state your experience trying it as a training tool and expound on your reasons why it didn't work?
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Well for training for home defense. It would be useless because you would be anticipating it thus making it relativley obsolete IMO. I just dont think that using a childs playtoy is a good means for training for a self defense situation. When I was in the army they used all sorts of faulty training aids that really just didnt seem to do to much good. What I think it comes down to is understanding the basic fundamentals. The Army used paintball a few times wich was fun but that is in noway the point of the training. Simunitions was also fun so that kinda missed the target and the blanks with the miles gear was just retarded. Although it did give you a understanding as to how to move as a unit and the basics like covering fire and what not. But in my experiences I havent found any kind of training that truly prepared me for combat. Its very mental and brings up issues know training could ever get close to covering.
 
There probably is no way to fully prepare you for combat except actually being in it, which can have nasty and long lasting effects if you lose.
But I think training with airsoft is better than nothing, and better than hoping you'll just rise to the occasion when it's for keeps. At least you get some of the dynamics of movement and firing while someone else is trying to "kill" you without putting holes in things or people. Plus it's nice for practicing drawing and firing (if you get an accurate replica of your carry gun). You get instant feedback on where you hit and can fire more than once.
 
The problem isn't with the training aid, it's with the lack of mindset of the user(s). If you're one to not take the training seriously then you won't get anything out of it. If you do take it seriously & debrief & think about the scenario after the fact an Airsoft or Sims gun can be a very useful tool.

Ron, it sounds like you think any kind of force on force is a waste, so how would you suggest preparing for combat (be that in a foul foreign land or with someone at the foot of your comfy bed)?
 
Ron, it sounds like you think any kind of force on force is a waste,
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No not quite perhaps you missed this part of my statement.
Although it did give you a understanding as to how to move as a unit and the basics like covering fire and what not. But in my experiences I havent found any kind of training that truly prepared me for combat.
Click to expand...
Im leaning more torwards the mental aspect of training.
 
Take a look at http://www.teddytactical.com/archive/MonthlyStudy/2007/02_StudyDay.htm . These are the folks who run NTI, and they know whereof they speak.

Especially:

SCENARIO BASED SHOOTING

Train with associates. Set up scenarios that require practice of line of force movement skills while engaging hostiles. Enforce follow-through techniques and plus 1 drills.

Create challenging confrontation judgment drills. Have armed non-hostiles appear in the scenario. Do not joke about shooting a non-hostile. Review the scenario to see what opportunities to create more time to make a shoot decision were missed. Create scenarios that should put the Practitioner on alert to the real potential of armed non-hostiles in the environment.

Have training partners perform the role of the various “people” confronted in the scenario. Practice your verbal interaction skills of communication within the scenario.

SHOOT HOUSES

If you have a shoot house available for live fire, use it regularly. In addition to placing targets distribute clues about the premises that should provide information the Practitioner can use to evaluating the problem in real time. Create situations that re-enforce the importance of observation of the Gunsite 4 Rules.

Above all else, avoid scenarios that create “see gun shoot” responses and do create scenarios that require the Practitioner to manage his way into gathering sufficient information to discern hostiles from non-hostiles, particularly those who are armed and resistant to instructions to disarm.

lpl
 
In my town if you discharge an airsoft pistol in city limits without a permit the local po-po will come write you an expensive citation and confiscate the airsoft gun for themselves. Check local restrictions before you train with airsoft where someone might see you.
 
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