Ak-47

[shattered00]

I am interested in purchasing an AK-47, yet I know next to nothing about it other than having fired one a while back in which I was instantly allured to its beauty and power. The one I fired had a wood stock that looked like this one: http://www.sovietarmy.com/small_arms/ak-47_icon.jpg

I am not so much interested in authenticity or historical importance as I am in performance. I want the model that performs the best yet also retains some aesthetic points as well. I saw a model of one that had a black stock(polymer?) which did not appear to be wood. Would this be better? Also, are they all as rugged as the original (for instance, still functioning after being
completely submerged in muddy water etc.)

There is a manufacturer here in Houston that sells them, but the stock looks rather cheap and it says it uses American parts. Here is the link to it. http://www.globaltrades.com/ssr-85c1.html

Are these American parts as good as the parts used on the other AK-47s?

From reading these forums it seems that around 300-500 dollars is a good price range for this gun so please correct me if I am wrong.

How do I see if a canted sight is crooked? Hell, I don't even know what a canted sight is. I really don't want to get screwed over as I do not have much money nor knowledge about AK-47s or guns for that matter to be able to fix it on my own if I purchase a screwed up one.

What are some of the telltale signs of a high quality AK-47 vs a poor one?

I am a poor college student who doesn't have much money haha. I apologize for being such a novice when it comes to guns.

It seems that most people say the Romanian SAR-1 is the best, but I have no clue.

I apologize for this post, since I bet lots of newbies like myself ask about AK-47s since that is one of hte few guns that everyone knows of.

 

[Commissar Gribb]

first you need to figure out what you want.

AK's are available in many configurations/sizes etc.

I'm guessing you want to go with a semi auto in 7.62 x 39mm (standard AK ammo)

I'd also guess with that price range that you're probably looking at a stamped receiver rifle.

AKs are available in both stamped and milled. The milled variety is closer to the original model AK47 while the stamped is usually closer to the model 56 (??) or "AKM".

you have to figure out what kinds of features you want (functional vs. aesthetic features)

folding stock?
wood or synthetic furniture?
threaded barrel? (for flash suppressors etc)
bayonet lug?

a solid Import AKM from your typical east european country will run out about $350 for a rifle in good condition. there's better and worse deals out there but I find this to be about the average.

 

[iamkris]

Beauty???

Power???







Just kiddin'...I have an AKM (WASR-10) but those aren't two adjectives I'd ever be guilty of placing on the beast.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

If you're going with a stamped AK, then you might as well go for a Romanian WASR. They're about the least expensive, and are good models.

Reliability wise, an AK is pretty much an AK. I'd say "boringly reliable" but that usually draws flack.

The milled receiver models (VEPR, Arsenal) are generally more accurate than stamped models. However, the rifles weigh considerably more.


"Poor college student" points towards a WASR to me.

PS, I hear good things about the Armory USA/Global Trades AKs.

 

[Correia]

The Veprs start around $500, and are heavier than the standard, but they are the nicest and shoot much better than any other AK.

 

[Morlock]

VEPR = milled ???

AFAIK, the VEPRs are stamped, but built on a RPK receiver...

Would any RKI correct me on this if mistaken....

morlock

 

[TheOtherOne]

Are these American parts as good as the parts used on the other AK-47s?

Generally, no they are not but you don't have much choice. They have to swap out about 5-6 parts now days for them to be legal rifles.

The best bang for the buck is the Romanian WASR-10. They aren't always the prettiest but they work just fine:
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/NEW_AK_WASR_RIFLE_w__Bayonet_Lug___Muzzle_Break.html

Probably some of the best built and best looking AK's come from K-Var:
http://www.arsenalinc.com/sam7classic.htm

VEPR's are suppose to be really good quality. They don't have the traditional AK look but I've shot my brother-in-laws with a hunting stock and it was all AK just without as much of the AK evilness!
http://www.ak47.com/

Armory USA (the link you posted) have decent AK's. The wood isn't "cheap" it's just blonde instead of the more traditional orange stuff you usually see on AK's.

Vector also make some pretty good rifles:
http://www.vectorarms.com/myweb2/guns/AK_rifles.htm

 

[Father Knows Best]

Morlock is correct. The VEPR is a stamped receiver, not milled. It is a very heavy duty stamped receiver, however, so it has great rigidity, and that leads to enhanced accuracy.

The reason for the U.S. made parts is section 922(r). To be legal for sale in the U.S. (as new guns, anyway) in the military-style configuration, they have to have a certain minimum number of U.S.-made parts. Companies therefore import them in sporting rifle configurations and swap out parts that come on them with U.S.-made replacements that look like the original military parts. The only legal way to get an AK clone with all foreign parts these days is to buy one that got into the country before the import ban.

In terms of new AK clones, the best ones are from Arsenal, Inc. The SA M-7 series are milled receiver semi-auto AK clones made in Bulgaria, but which the appropriate U.S.-compliant parts added. Unfortunately, a SA M-7 goes for $700+ in the most basic configurations. Getting one with nice wood, or an folding stock, sends the price up quite a bit.

The other top quality gun in this area is the afore-mentioned VEPR, imported by Robinson Armaments. The VEPR isn't technically an AK, because it uses the RPK machine gun receiver instead of the AK receiver. The operating principle is the same, however, and 95% of the population won't know the difference between a VEPR and an AK. VEPR's tend to be a little cheaper than Arsenal SA M-7's, but they still run $550+.

 

[benEzra]

Beauty???

Power???

Beauty, yes. Power, depends on what you compare it to (much less than .30-06, more than .22).

The words I'd probably choose would be "cool" and "FUN"!

I own a SAR-1, BTW. The difference between SAR's and WASR's is that the SAR was built to take double-column magazines (standard AK type) and the WASR's were built to take single-column mags and converted after arriving in the U.S. Current-import WASR's have threaded muzzles with screw-on slant brakes, and bayonet lugs; SAR's don't since they were all imported during the Feinstein ban (mine's a 2002 model, one of the later ones to be imported, I think).

Black polymer furniture may mean an aftermarket stock and foregrip. You could buy a basic wooden-stocked AK lookalike now and buy aftermarket stock parts later from places like www.tapco.com (lots of configurations available).

As long as all the parts are there and in the right configuration, it should be VERY reliable.

As far as canted sights--hold the gun and look down at it. If the front sight assembly and the gas block (front part of the upper tube above the barrel) are both on straight, then it's good. If either one is tilted (canted) noticeably, pick another one. These guns are assembled in the U.S. and sometimes you get one that wasn't assembled with enough care.

Re: are the U.S. parts as good as the original? Probably not quite, but it probably doesn't matter. And you're stuck with them since 18 USC 922(r) requires that you have no more than 10 imported parts if the rifle has a protruding handgrip or double-stack magazine.

 

[shattered00]

Thanks for actually responding to me . I appreciate all of this info. I am sure I will come up with more questions as it nears by b-day and I actually purchase the gun. Thanks again.

 

[clange]

AKs are available in both stamped and milled. The milled variety is closer to the original model AK47 while the stamped is usually closer to the model 56 (??) or "AKM".

The first AK-47 was actually stamped, not milled. It was made for 2 years, from 1949-1951. The milled AKs were produced from 1951-1959. The stamped AKM was produced from 1959 onward. All in all, milled reciever AKs were only made for 8 years. Both milled AK-47 clones, and AKM clones should live up to the AKs reliable reputation.

As far as said clones go, you usually end up paying for fit and finish, not performance, although most people claim the VEPRs and Arsenals are more accurate. My SAR has done a group under an inch at 60-70 yards (with a red dot), so that claim does not always hold true.

FYI a SAR-1 is just about as close as you can get to an actual military AKM receiver (and if you thread the barrel and add a bayo lug, they're just about an exact copy). They are made on the same dies as the romanian AIM, and have the stampings for the auto sear pin hole to prove it. They can be plagued by canted sight and gas blocks, but not as much as WASRs, and their fit and finish may leave something to be desired, but they're also a sub $400 gun. I'd try for a SAR before a WASR, but if you find a nice WASR in person with no problems (straight blocks, mags fit good) then it would be a good buy as well.

VEPRs are very nice from everything that i've heard, but they dont do much for me (non-AK looks, few stock options, etc).

Also, since global trades and vector were mentioned, you should know they are builds on US recievers. Arsenal USA (AKA global trades) makes their own recievers, and they are actually one of the best US made receivers at the moment. Vector uses receivers from OOW, global, and maybe others. When built properly, they make fine weapons, but i would still rather have a factory built rifle on some kind of factory receiver.

Dont get me wrong here, i'm no US receiver hater, i own a ~$800 gun built on one, i just think a factory gun would be better if possible. If a build on a US receiver is the only possible way to get something (like a tantal, bulgarian krink or aks-74, underfolders, etc) then theres not much choice.

 

[Fingolfin]

With your budget i'd look for a Mak-90, a SAR-1, or if you hunt around even a milled bulgarian Arsenal AK.

 

[Commissar Gribb]

The first AK-47 was actually stamped, not milled. It was made for 2 years, from 1949-1951. The milled AKs were produced from 1951-1959. The stamped AKM was produced from 1959 onward. All in all, milled reciever AKs were only made for 8 years. .

from what I've read, the first production AKs weren't truly stamped or milled but a combination.

then again you can't believe everything you read eh?

Both milled AK-47 clones, and AKM clones should live up to the AKs reliable reputation

absolutely- combloc romanian can openers vs. true russian can openers.



I think you'll find once you get one, you'll find that it needs a friend... and then more friends.. and sometimes you get a family of them before you're done..

 

[Dave Markowitz]

Don't overlook the milled receiver Bulgarian AKs from Arsenal, Inc. . I own an SLR-101SG. I've never seen a nicer AK.

 

[clange]

from what I've read, the first production AKs weren't truly stamped or milled but a combination.

Yea, they are some kind of combination, but how i'm not sure. The picture he linked in his original post is the first kind of AK-47. There are two rivets i think above the magazine, but i dont see any at the rear. It looks like the front 'trunnion' is probably the milled part, and rest of the receiver is stamped. It would be interesting to see the inside and how they were constructed.

 

[Commissar Gribb]

Don't overlook the milled receiver Bulgarian AKs from Arsenal, Inc. . I own an SLR-101SG. I've never seen a nicer AK.
__________________

arsenal AKs are a nice choice if you have the money.

 

[Father Knows Best]

I have an Arsenal SA M7S (milled receiver, 7.62x39, side rail) that I picked up in like new condition for $399 about a month or two ago. If you shop around, they're out there.

 

[Helio]

You might also consider a Vector Arms AK, I hear they make some good ones and have a 5-yr warrenty. Around $450-500 in a bunch of different configurations.

I own a WASR-10 and while people place it on the bottom rung of AKs, I've never had any problems.

 

[JohnKSa]

Unless you're going for one of the higher-end guns, the milled vs stamped thing is a red herring.

There are a lot of things that contribute to accuracy, and in an AK type firearm, the receiver stiffness is way down on the list, IMO.

I've had milled and stamped, and in my experience at a given quality/price level, they shoot about the same.

NOW, on the other hand, if you're considering spending $700 or more on an AK, you might be talking about a level of quality such that the extra stiffness of the milled receiver would be noticeable.

 

[longhorngunman]

If you want accuracy, and good fit and finish get a name brand AR . If you want something that you toss around, never clean, generally abuse it more than any firearm should be, then get an AK, any AK. Probably for a poor college student the best bet would be one of the Romanian WASR's. Cheap looking, cheap fit and finish, shoots very cheap ammo, is cheap to buy, and will shoot as decent as most any AK and virtually impossible to keep it from running. As someone posted before, check www.aimsurplus.com , or www.classicarms.us , or go to pretty much any gunshow. Only thing you need to watch out for on a WASR is make sure the front sight and gas block isn't canted. Actually the gas block being slightly canted ain't no big deal. If it's 90 degrees off to the right then you might have a bad one!

 

[Commissar Gribb]

I have an Arsenal SA M7S (milled receiver, 7.62x39, side rail) that I picked up in like new condition for $399 about a month or two ago. If you shop around, they're out there.

I've heard a lot about these deals- but it some parts of the country (like where I live) you can't get a new AK for under $450

like has been said- check out gunshows and local stores but don't buy anything right away until you have an idea what things are worth.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

. . .Romanian WASR's. Cheap looking, cheap fit and finish,

Just out of curiosity, am I the only one that got a WASR with good fit and finish?

 

[c_yeager]

Just out of curiosity, am I the only one that got a WASR with good fit and finish?

You might be.

When i bought an AK recently my shop had two. I walked out with a 10 year old Mak-90 because it was in better shape than the NIB WASR next to it

 

[Commissar Gribb]

I've never fired or held a wasr.

how can they be so bad?

how hard is it to refinish a rifle?

 

[Lonestar.45]

I got a WASR from AIM a few months back. I'm perfectly happy. The fit and finish are what you'd expect from a low-end AK, not perfect, but very serviceable. The metal finish is not a deep blue factory remchester by any means, and the wood didn't seem to have a finish on it at all really. However, I took off the wood, put about 9 coats of tung oil finish on it over the course of a few weeks, put it back together, and it looks like a different gun. The wood truly looks awesome.

I could play with the metal and reblue it, but I don't see the point. It doesn't look that bad, and it does what it's supposed to do---shoot a LOT reliably.