AK accuracy?

[elmerfudd]

OTOH, I recently picked up a .308 Saiga that has surprised me. It lobs good handloads into 1.5" pretty consistently at 100 yards. It's actually doing better than that. I'll see a bunch of bullet holes touching and one about an inch or so away from the main group.

That's exactly what mine does too. I'll have four shots in a 1" group then a fifth that's a flier 1.25" away. The thing is, it consistently throws those fliers. I could get a sub MOA 3 shot group pretty easily, but a sub MOA 10 shot group would take a whole lot of shooting. I tried different ammo, different holds, different ways of resting it, different scopes and could never get rid of that occasional flier. I just decided to live with it as a rifle that shoots about 2.5 MOA. I've got a Remington LTR that will shoot consistent cloverleafs if I need tack driving accuracy.

 

[MCMXIautomatic]

I have no experience with any of the Arsenal guns, but generally you can expect 3-4 inch groups at 100 yards with cheap milsurp ammo, as other posters have mentioned. The Yugo M70s are probably among the most accurate of AKs. They have heavier, thicker, stronger barrels than most other AKs which means they don't heat up as fast. Yugo bores are also not chrome lined, which helps accuracy even further. I have a Century Yugo M70AB2 which has just about the smoothest trigger of all the rifles I own.

 

[rugerdude]

I had the opportunity to run a rifle qual (USMC) with a polish M1960 AK-47. Nobody was keeping score but I certainly could have passed as a marksman or maaaaaybe sharpshooter. Shots were where I called them out to 300 and 400 yards, but things really fell apart at the 500. That's where the sights became very hard to use and shots were no longer following my calls.

Most ak's might surprise you, only because most people have such low expectations in the first place. Man-size target out to 400 yards should definitely be do-able, but it's definitely on the edge of the rifle's capability.

 

[1stmarine]

Knowing its limitations of the round the AKs do a very decent job. Many shoot better than what many would expect. Today you have options to make both the system and the shooter a better combo. It is an excellent urban combat system where the ranges rarely exceed 100 yards.

AK103K,
What cammo scheme is that. Did yo do it yourself? It looks awesome.

 

[AK103K]

Thanks. Its Multicam, and I did it.

Painting is one of those functional little side additions.

 

[1stmarine]

Didn't realize they would look so nice on that scheme. Nice job.!
Is that Duracoat?

 

[Justin]

Thats sort of my point, its usually the target shooters who stress "inaccuracy", basing things on their type of shooting. I wouldnt use an AK to shoot HP or one of the military rife matches either, if I was trying to shoot for "score", I wouldnt use a FAL, G3, or a most others either for that matter, as they dont generally make good "target" guns.

Change things up a little, and take that match grade AR and shoot it a little more realistically, and even with the match gun, youre going to see very similar results on a target with no fixed aiming point as you do with the AK's.

Not sure what your definition of "realistic" is. Mine is shooting under field conditions from various improvised positions, on targets from contact distance to as far as 550 yards under the constraints of a shot timer, and in some cases with a time limit. General target size is around 4 MOA, except for close range targets, which would consist of of full-size IPSC targets with hard cover and no-shoots.

I've also encountered some interesting things at matches, including requirements to break clay pigeons with a rifle at distances of 70-200 yards.

If all youre doing is punching paper, I agree, but it still puts both guns in the 300 yard range for most realistic, or other than "target" use. Both guns tend to excel at closer, more realistic distances, and both are effective within that envelope.

There are a couple of reasons I tend not to emphasize terminal ballistics. First of all, I'm not aware of any sources that have good information on terminal ballistics, especially for non-military rounds.

Secondly, the odds that anyone would ever actually have to use a gun in a defensive situation like that are vanishingly rare.

Thirdly, in the instances where these guns have been used on human opponents, the results certainly seem to be acceptable.

One other this in this respect I find interesting is, many of the AR shooters who tell you the AK's stock is to short, have the adjustable "sliders" on their guns and they are often set shorter than the AK's fixed stocks.

I'm tall and lanky, and run rifle stocks that are set up to fit me. The AK stock is far too short for me.

For me, compared to most stock AR's triggers, the stock AK's triggers just seem so much "cleaner", smoother, and lighter. All but one of my factory AR's have the standard, fairly heavy and crunchy triggers. The one AR I have that doesnt have one like that, has a nicely tuned "match/precision" type trigger that comes as an upgrade.

The AK triggers I've tried have ranged from good, to acceptable to downright awful. The one in my Mak 90 was one of the better ones, but even the best ones still couldn't hold a candle to even a cheap after-market two stage NM trigger from Rock River, let alone the triggers that can be bought from places like JP or Geissele.

 

[stchman]

I have gotten 2" groups at 50 yards with my WASR AK from a bench shooting Wolf 7.62x39.

 

[my762buzz]

I have been considering getting my first AK and have pretty much decided on an Arsenal SGL21. I was talking to a friend (experienced shooter) and he was adamant the accuracy would be mediocre at best. I understand there are different quality levels from the different AK brands, but what kind of accuracy can I reasonably expect?

Thanks

The SGL 21 is essentially a saiga. Saigas, SGLs, and SLRs are new production guns. The headspace on these is tighter and the parts are not worn compared to other market offerings like WASRs. Assuming no silly mistakes like allowing oil to reside in the firing pin channel, the SGL 21 with good ammo, and I am not talking cheap imported ammo because more often than not cheap ammo does not group the best in most any rifle, can shoot in the sub 2 inch range at 100 yards and of course sub 1 inch in the 50 yard range and sub 1/2 inch in the 25 yard range. Most people do not use a scope, solid scope mount, bench rest, and quality ammo to evaluate. Flawed evaluations plague the very nature of the AK inaccuracy topic and a sense of pseudo-patriotism by its detractors fuels the fire of misinformation. However, the .308 saiga evaluations I have seen lately are really starting to change the old misconception that the platform is inherently lacking sufficient precision to be respected. Handloaded match ammo will greatly benefit the 7.62x39 reputation, but there seems to be a lack of this practice because of the plentiful and cheap imported ammo available in this caliber.

 

[1stmarine]

Legion customs is the exporter of SGLs that is esentially like a saiga dressed up for exportation/imiportation. Once it arrives it is finalized and the nice folks at Russian American Armory make sure all parts are in compliance with federal laws.
In essence you end up with a Izmash system with a nice us made trigger and furniture and all the original pedigree of a original russian AK. Others convert the nice saigas and arrive to the same mil spec based systems adding some hobby fun time in the process.

For those in doubt in the quality accuracy of AKs here are some examples based on real life tests. (my post)
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=567005

As much as I am a fun of ARs, H&Ks and others, through the years I am nothing but amazed about the reliability, simplicity, easy of use and many times underestimated accuracy of these little dandy AK carbines.

 

[Caseless]

Back to topic - 7.62x39 AK Accuracy

Arsenal SGL-21 with Lapua surplus 70s era ammo is <2MOA at 100 yds.
5 rounds benchrested. Three rounds standing. Nikon 4MOA red dot sight. (The rest are 22LR hits)



Arsenal SGL-21 with Russian commercial ammo is 4MOA at 200 yds.
Prone 200 yds rapid fire; 1 round every 2 seconds. Accupoint TR-24 scope w/4.3 MOA triangle reticule.