AK caliber crunch time

Which caliber of AK?


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I am buying some flavor of AK in August, and no, I really don't want an AR for a few dollars more. The question I have is a perennial one, but with the increased availability of 5.45x39 of late, the old discussions that one can find are a little dated.

The three contenders for the $500-800 AK I intend to pursue include:

7.62x39--The original cartridge. Pros are its ubiquity and the fact that there are domestic loadings of it should imports be cut off. Cons are its weight, the relative recoil, and the indifferent accuracy of most of the Russian steel case ammo. Another con is the retards who decided to make 7.62x39 handguns, thereby getting steel core milsurp banned from importation as armor piercing "handgun" rounds. The fact that the material used to make the larger round is roughly twice as great as the 5mm rounds means that as metal prices fluctuate, the future price sensitivity of this load is greater, even for eventual loading components.

5.56x45--The round of the AR. Pro is mainly that it is likely to be in mass production for at least the rest of my lifetime and probably a lot longer, politics aside. It also comes in loadings from steel cased plinkers to match quality rounds. Biggest con is that it has skyrocketed in price and is not as great a deal as it used to be. I have heard that Clinton wrecked the milsurp market for domestically manufactured 5.56. by requiring it to be de-miled. Is that last bit true?

5.45x39--The "poison bullet." Pros are that this round is currently awash on the market to the point that it is screamingly cheap. The magazines are also remeniscent of the good old days where you could get Bulgarian 7.62 mags for under $10.00 a pop. I could readily have thousands of rounds on hand and a load of magazines for this caliber and have only spent just about a grand including a non-Romanian rifle. Cons are primarily that this round is on the down swing, with the former Warsaw pact countries joining NATO and using the 5.56, making Russia the only major manufacturer in the long run. Of course this makes the ammo subject to ban by a whim. The milsurp for this round is corrosive, but that's no big deal.

But all of these factors create a huge selection headache. The easy answer is to get one of each, but that is not in the cards. First of all, I am not really a fan of intermediate round self loaders, no matter the type. I am more of a C&R and lever rifle fan.

This rifle is not bought for the fun of it. Yes busting caps 30 at a time before reloading has a charm all its own, but that's not where I am at anymore. This rifle is the "just in case" rifle. In my collection, this one will be like the fire extinguishers I own. I'll know how to use it well and discover its limitations. It will always be ready to go, but I will only go to it by preference in a real emergency.

So with an eye on the present and and eye on the future, and your mind's eye on the relative performance merits of each cartridge, what do you guys think?
 
I'd go with either 7.62x39 or 5.56x45. Probably the former since it's cheaper and good mags are more available. I must admit though, I've seriously considered getting a 5.56x45 Saiga for a while now.

My problem with 5.45x39 is, yea it's cheap right now, but do you plan to stock up 10k+ rounds? If not, who knows what future availability is. What if you wish to shoot soft points? Right now milsurp is all that's widely available and that could get shut down at any time due to political whim. Look at what happened with South African surplus. At least 7.62x39 is made commercially both domestically and overseas.
 
Get the very best AK74 you can chambered for 5.45x39 then order a large quantity of ammo (I just ordered several cans of Bulgarian non corrosive from SOG for $118.00 for 1080 rounds in sealed cans). I now have more 5.45 ammo than I can conceive of ever using (no, I won't divulge details). If you can find an Arsenal AK74 in 5.45 you will never regret it. Don't sweat a ban on importing this stuff for at least a year and by then you should have your basement full of cans like I do. If you ever decide to sell the AK you can advertise "Arsenal AK74 with fifteen thousand rounds of ammo $3500". You will just about double your money if they ever ban the importation of good surplus stuff.:)
 
I have heard that Clinton wrecked the milsurp market for domestically manufactured 5.56. by requiring it to be de-miled. Is that last bit true?
Yes it's true. We can't get surplus ammo from the US military. However, there has been a lot of the ammo sold directly by the manufacturers essentially getting around that issue (Winchester Q3131A, Federal XM133, XM855). Plus military surplus ammo has been sold in the past as components, purchased, reassembled, then sold by the commercial market.
 
If you're only going after "one" AK for "just in case" situations, then 5.56mm is your best bet.

Ammo will be around for a long long time. It also has better trajectory. You can use soft points, or heavier rounds if you feel that it needs more power at longer ranges. In my opinion, you can't go wrong with a 5.56mm AK.

I bought the 7.62 version because I like the round and the fact that everything is so cheap and available for 7.62 AK's. But if I was to get a 5.56mm for future ammo security I would get a Tromix or Krebs converted Saiga that uses bulgarian 223 magazines. Oh and that's after I get a Galil. :D
 
Like said above, if you can do a huge bulk purchase of 5.45, do that. Otherwise, I wouldn't count on 5.45 being available in the long run. But it is the cheapest right now (I expect that to change soon). Mags are cheap. (they used to be $3/ea a few years ago!). If they ban surplus ammo or deem this as non-sporting, your rifle becomes a metal club. Which is why if I bought a 5.45, I'd buy 10,000rds with it. At least get a decent usable life out of it.

.223 is nice, is the safest long-term cartridge of the 3, but is the most expensive. Magazines are also the most expensive in the AK platform.

x39 is the best mix of price and availability in both short and long term. In the short term, it is still cheaper than .223. It is also going to be available for a while. There is some domestic production of it, so your AK won't be a metal club if they ban Russian ammo import. The magazines are widely available and middle of the road in price.
 
in the interest of adding to the pain of deciding, it should noted that .308 AK variants do exsist in that price range. :evil:

why? because I needed to deliver my daily dose of EVIL
 
223 is nice, is the safest long-term cartridge of the 3, but is the most expensive. Magazines are also the most expensive in the AK platform.

Now, I agree. However, mags are only something you buy once because they last, especially BRAND NEW Bulgarian 223 2nd Generation 223 waffle mags. That's in comparison to old surplus bulgarian 5.45mm mags that are filthy and quite possibly have had alot of stress on the locking lugs, tower, follower and spring and maybe even have cracks you can't see.

You get what you pay for.
 
This rifle is not bought for the fun of it. Yes busting caps 30 at a time before reloading has a charm all its own, but that's not where I am at anymore. This rifle is the "just in case" rifle. In my collection, this one will be like the fire extinguishers I own. I'll know how to use it well and discover its limitations. It will always be ready to go, but I will only go to it by preference in a real emergency.

So with an eye on the present and and eye on the future, and your mind's eye on the relative performance merits of each cartridge, what do you guys think?

5.56: Mags are an issue, ammo is around (But the most expensive) and I have NO respect for the round on man sized targets.

5.45: If you were just going to shoot with it I'd recommend this and a stockpile of ammo. (That's what I have done reciently)

7.62: Say what you want, when my life is on the line I want a .30 Cal.
mags, parts, accessories... and say what you want about ammo avalability... it passes the Wallmart test.

I also recommend this: http://www.tacticalresponse.com/courses/fightingrifle.php
 
Pipe cleaners, scratchy ones for cleaning up after black powder, a 20 gauge shotgun brush to clean the gas tube, and toothbrushes of various sizes are your friends.
It's an AK. As long as it's not a Yugo, it has a chrome bore. Wash it down with some water (Windex if you wish), blow it off with some compressed air (or wipe it off with a rag), soak it with BreakFree CLP, wipe off the excess and call it a day. It's only salt, not hydrocloric acid.
 
I would take a AK type rifle in 5.56x45 for 2 reasons.

1. Ammo will be easy to get a hold of for a long time and in a SHTF situation.
2. My favorite AK type rifle is a Galil.
 
I've shot other corrosive before, and it seemed with that (8mm, among others) that a Windex bath before the post-range cleaning was sufficient, even if you waited a few days to get to it. That hasn't been my experience with the 5.45x39mm. It likes to attract moisture and aid rusting ASAP — you really want to do something more than washing it down to lift it off of the surface of the metal and send it on its way.
Since I have never shot 5.45x39, corrosive or not, I'll defer to your experience. Consider me corrected. ;)
 
Get it in 5.56. Why? If society crumbles, the JBT's use that round, so you can at least pilfer ammunition.

Unless you want to buy my WASR (I'll throw in 500 7.62x39 if you offer me a good price, PM me about it).
 
Its funny, I was in the same situation a few months ago. I was considering 5.56 but there is something unnatural about shooting this NATO round out of an AK. I really liked the AK-74 style rifles (I am into military and Soviet history) so I began to lean towards one.

I think the push was when an outstanding THR member, Furious Styles (and fine American) tipped me off to cheap 5.45 x 39 on Century's website. $119 for 1080 rounds. It was the green light. I realized there was no sense in putting off my AK-74 purchase anymore. I stocked up on some 5.45 x 39 cheap and deep, and my rifle just arrived from Ohio Rapid Fire this week. I love it! She is a real beauty. :)

I am cradling it like a newborn baby right now and I can't wait to take her to the range. I recommend an AK-74, Ohio Rapid Fire, and 5.45 x 39 to anyone on the fence. Thanks again Furious! :D


PS- mags are dirt cheap too, so stock up now.


Here are some pics! :evil:

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Join the club today! :evil:

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I would take a AK type rifle in 5.56x45 for 2 reasons.

1. Ammo will be easy to get a hold of for a long time and in a SHTF situation.
2. My favorite AK type rifle is a Galil.

This is *exactly* the way I feel about it as well. Galil is the best of the AK's and perhaps the best of the AR's, period. Highly recommended, if possible.
 
I think Mik got it right the first time....x39 was my choice....

either way you go....commie calibers for commie guns :)

in my small limited mind...

7.62x39 is the AK round

5.56x45/.223 is the AR round
 
I prefer an Ak-47 to an AR-15.

I prefer the 5.56 to the 7.62x39

I own a Saiga chambered for 5.56x45mm. :)
 
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