I need a Ruger Hawkeye African... but Which Caliber??

[Gtscotty]

Alright, after looking at my stable and noticing that it is woefully understocked in the medium bore African style rifle department (why not..), I recently decided that the next gun in my (near) future needs to be a Ruger M77 Hawkeye African in 9.3x62. After I settled on the rifle I started to have some dissenting thoughts about my caliber selection and have decided to consider all of the medium bores offered in that particular rifle, namely, 9.3x62, .338 Win Mag, and .375 Ruger. Thus far, here are the pros and cons I see to each.

9.3x62
Pros:
-Tosses heavy bullets at moderate speeds for good killing power without terribly severe recoil.
-Is a classic round with lots of history and use on large game.
-Should be relatively affordable/easy to reload (with Prvi Partisian components).
-ability to be loaded from tame to knocking on the 375 H&H's door.
Cons:
- loaded Ammo is not widely available in the US (outside of the internet).
- probably shorter range due to its lower velocity than the other two rounds.

.338 Win Mag
Pros:
-Widely available in sporting goods stores
-Flat trajectory
-Plenty powerful for anything I might hunt.
-Relatively cheap to reload
-Probably easier to sell than the other two choices due to the round's ubiquity
Cons:
-Some people cite .338 recoil as worse than that of .375 H&H, or at least snappier
-Not as interesting a caliber to me.. not as much history, not as different as the 9.3
-Smaller frontal area than either of the other two rounds... less of a big bore thumper.

.375 Ruger
Pros:
- This is the most powerful chambering available in this rifle, but as a reloader I guess I could load it down to reasonable levels when desired
-Flat trajectory with medium to heavy bullets
-Would make a great "stopper rifle" if I ever needed such a thing
Cons:
-I've read that the recoil of this round in light(ish) rifles like the 7.75 lb African is brutal.
-Would probably be more expensive to reload than the other rounds (I think Hornady is the only maker of reasonably priced brass)
-This is a pretty new round, how confident should I be that it will hang around

All of this said, some of these pros/cons are more important to me than others, for instance I am a reloader, and like as not, this rifle will never see a factory round. Also, I already own some flat shooting rifles (270 wsm, 30-06) so I don't think trajectory is as important to me as tossing fatty bullets. I know recoil is very subjective, but the heaviest round I have fired extensively in an unbraked rifle is hot 35 whelen (250 gr @2550 Fps), while not a walk in the park I know I can learn to shoot anything in that power range accurately. 338 Win and .375 Ruger on the other hand... I have no experience, so i'm not sure. This rifle will predominately be used for range fun and hunting hogs and deer for the next two years, after that hopefully it will be employed for bigger stuff out west or in AK.

So with all this in mind, What say you THR? I'm interested in hearing any experience/opinions yall have with this rifle or these rounds. Thanks in advance!

p.s. here is a link to the rifle in case you don't know the particular model.

http://www.ruger.com/products/m77HawkeyeAfrican/models.html

 

[Dr T]

Since I do not believe that you will be using this for daily use in Georgia, you might as well keep to the classic African cartridge. I tend to think of the 338 as an elk round and the 375 Ruger as a je ne sais quoi...

 

[Hizzie]

.338WM, Pro - excellent SD with 250gr+ bullet

Concerns over frontal area in the above calibers is not really and issue. None of them are considered stopping calibers. You being a handloader opens things up. You can download to make things fun, no need for a full thumping. Of the 3 calibers listed the .375 gives you the largest bullet selection and therefore the most flexability You can get jacketed SP's as heavy as 380gr.

I skipped the medium bores and ended up with a 458WM. 405gr RNSP's @ 2200fps are more than adequate for NA game.

 

[Coal Dragger]

Get the big stick, if needs be make reduced loads or use lighter bullets. I'll bet there is virtually nothing you can't do in the US or Canada with a 235gr Barnes Triple Shock, and that bullet weight would put you into the same recoil and power territory as a .338 Win.

 

[Robert]

Personally I'd rather have 375H&H in a heavier rifle. Having a powerful magnum in a light weight make no sense to me at all. I'd much rather have the 375H&H in a 8 or 9 pound rifle.

My next rifle is going to be a Winchester M70 in 375H&H.

 

[LoonWulf]

As this is inteded to be an African style rifle I say 9.3x62.
Its generally considered minimum in a number of African hunting areas (from what ive read), its classic, with plenty of power for most stuff, and a reasonable trajectory. You also get one more round then you would from a magnum. If you wanted the .375, and didnt want to deal with harsh recoil, you could always add weight to the stock or recoil reducers.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I voted none because I don't like the caliber options.

Put .375 H&H or .416 Rigby on the table, you'll garner a vote here.

 

[beatledog7]

+1 on MachIV

If I were in need of a true big game thumper, it'd be something in one of those classic calibers. Or possibly a .458 Win Mag.

 

[sixgunner455]

You already said 9.3 is the caliber you find most interesting in this gun. Don't settle! Get what you are interested in, and be happy.

 

[Gtscotty]

Since I do not believe that you will be using this for daily use in Georgia..

You sir believe correctly, I will really only be using this rifle for shooting at the range and for some of the spots I hunt that are pretty in and thick. I also tend to agree on keeping the 9.3, the list in my original post is pretty much in order of my preference at this point. Since this will be an "Africa Gun" for a man who is not going to be able to hop the pond any time soon, its really about having a fun rifle with some nostalgia triggering attributes. I figure it doesn't hurt to get differing opinions though.

Get the big stick, if needs be make reduced loads or use lighter bullets.

I have considered this, in fact my plan prior to this latest iteration was to pick up one of the black Ruger Alaskans in .375 Rug that Buds was selling off for $660.. alas, apparently a bunch of people beat me to the punch.

Personally I'd rather have 375H&H in a heavier rifle. Having a powerful magnum in a light weight make no sense to me at all. I'd much rather have the 375H&H in a 8 or 9 pound rifle.

I wish Ruger sold a magnum length action version of this rifle in 375 H&H for a similar price, but as it stands it looks like the closest i can get would be a new Mod 70 or Cz, both of which are at least $300 more than these Ruger rifles...I guess it comes down to cost benefit. Cdnn was selling Remington 798 Mauser type rifles chambered in 375 and 458 win for $499 several months ago, I've been kicking myself for not picking one up since they disappeared. I agree with your point on having a powerful magnum in such a light rifle, thats kind of why I was leaning more toward the 9.3 or maybe the 338.

I voted none because I don't like the caliber options.

That does seem like a fair reason to vote none, Again, back to the cost increase to jump to the biggies.. Although, right now, until they run out, I could pick up a stainless Ruger #1 in either of those calibers for around the same prices as the Hawkeye Africans (~$750) ... I have always wanted a #1, but in reading around, a lot of people seem to be of the opinion that the stock design on the #1s is not the best for controlling recoil from heavy loads. Also, that cheesy, 10/22-esq rear sight on a $1k+ gun kills me.

Thanks for all the opinions thus far!

 

[Hizzie]

You can still find the 798's in 375H&H and 458WM around $750 or so. If you troll the various message boards big caliber rifles pop up all the time due to many people having a stronger imagniation than shoulder. Elite Deal Seeker is a good search tool. Interarms Mark X's, Charles Daly's, Zastava Z98's, USSG M98's and Whitworth's are floating around out there. CZ 550's regularly turn up used in big calibers for cheap too. Ruger #1's turn up in the big boys regularly too. They do NEED a good recoil pad like a Pachmayr F990 and maybe the safety trimmed a touch so as not to interfere with ejection of cartridges. By no means should you settle. Get what you want, cuz you will eventually, save yourself some time and $$$ getting there.

My 458WM http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=614570

 

[Nullcone]

9.3x62

Get a 9.3x62; it's a very well respected round world-wide.

Some comfort can be had from the African countries that make an exception for .375 being the minimum bore for dangerous game, seems it's always the 9.3x62 and 9.3x74R mentioned (or the energy figures fit them perfectly).

I know one is on my short list... which is actually rather long at the moment.

 

[ants]

Respecting the limits of your original post...

If I read you right, the biggest motivation to buy this new gun is "Why not".
I often suffer from that same affliction, and I enjoy it whenever I can afford it.

Get the European cartridge. You'll love it.
Nobody else on the block has one like it.
Or ever will. Because they buy the guns that make you yawn.

And it will be an excellent challenge to seek new load data,
and work up nice accurate loads.
Don't worry about the cost of components.
All three choices would cost about the same.
And this isn't a rifle that you shoot 1000 rounds a month.
Total cost per year won't be much more than any other caliber.
See if you can match Norma velocity & accuracy.
It will probably outshoot both the 338 and 375.
You will be one happy shooter.

 

[AJumbo]

I wish I had beat Ants to the punch; even then , I doubt I'd have been as eloquent.

I might go with the .338 WM for no better reason than it is thee most widely-available choice insofar as factory ammo is concerned. Nothing like being 10 miles from elk camp and having the wife call to ask if that box of shells you left on the counter is important, necessitating a trip to the nearest big town to overpay for a box of ammo. I don't wanna talk about this anymore.....

 

[Austin97]

375

 

[osprey176]

I've been visiting my local Cabela's recently,and have found a Ruger Hawkeye in .375 Ruger.Last time the sales people had to wipe the slobber off when I put it back in the rack. I guess if I pick it up,I will have an excuse to finally book that Alaska trip.Hmmmm.

 

[GooseGestapo]

I've got your rifle. (or sorta..)

I picked up a used Ruger M77 "Hawkeye" in .375 Ruger recently. It was bought about 3yrs ago new. Hunted once in Africa. (I'm told it took a Cape Buffalo, a lion, and misc. assorted plains game).

It had sat on the used rack for over 2yrs. I got it for half current "going price". Less than half retail. One of the "buggers and hairs" on this rifle is that the previous owner had the rear-sight removed so he could mount a "large objective 30mm scope". The rifle came with the box but sans rear sight and rings. I had a set of "low-medium" gloss finished rings and purchased a NECG reciever sight that mounts in the rear dove-tails for the scope rings.

The ammo for this rifle is "pricey" to say the least. Dies were no problem. I got a set of RCBS dies for <$30.00. The cheapest deal I found on ammo was from MidSouthShooter'sSupply. The 270gr Hornady was ~48.00/20 plus shipping. I got two boxes.

But, I'm a "tight" old curmudgeon. I've figured out how to neck-up and fire-form range pick-up .300WinMag brass to make "useable" .375Ruger brass. It look's "funky", but has same internal capacity as the Ruger brass and "works" with the slightly reduced power loads I'm feeding this thing.

Recoil is a bit "stout" but about like you'd expect. The factory ammo chrono'd about 100fps below claim of 2,840fps. It ran right at 2,740 or about 50fps faster than a .375H&H from a 26"bbl. I'm loading a 270gr to 2,650fps, and 250gr Sierra to 2,700fps with RL15. I could use one of the 4350's or H414 and get factory performance, but nothing in N.A. "needs" this kind of power.
This is the most accurate Ruger I've ever had or shot. With the Sierra 250's over 72.0gr of RL15 it's Sub-moa for 3-shots. (who want's to shoot more???).
Recoil is less than that of a .300RUM I have......however. (I found a "baggy" of 130 loose Sierra 250's that I picked up for $15.00!! I've also loaded some 235gr Speer's that are also quite accurate.

The only other "alterations" I plan are to send it back to Ruger for another rear sight, and to cut the stock and install a Pachmayer "Old English" red recoil pad. This will mitigate the recoil. I do plan on leaving the Burris Fullfield 3x-9x with ballistic reticle on it. It seems to just go with the rifle..... And with it's flat trajectory (think .30/06 with 180gr bullets), it's not out of place.
I did, however move the front sling stud to the front of the stock, as it was "snagging" my hand when shooting from the bench.

PM me if you want to "see and shoot" the rifle. I'm in the vicinity of the West Point WMA range and could meet you there some time....

 

[InkEd]

Out of the given selection I pick the .375 Ruger but would prefer the classic .375H&H or "go all in" and buy something like a .416 Rigby for an Africa trip.

 

[hirundo82]

Out of your choices I'd go with 9.3x62, but if I was going for an safari-style rifle for nostalia sake I'd get a Ruger No. 1 in 9.3x74R instead.

 

[Gtscotty]

Ants, you make some excellent points and I'm definately leaning heavily towards the 9.3. As long as I'm buying a "why not" gun, ammo availability is probably, realistically, towards the bottom of my objectives.

GooseGestapo, Thankyou for your hands on evaluation, and very generous offer! I'm definately interested in trying to work out a see and shoot if you're willing, i'll send you a PM. It sounds like you got a really good deal on your rifle. I too would have to have a rear sight installed, one of the things I really like about the African are the express style irons that it comes with. I'm not sure i understand how you are making impromptu .375 brass out of 300 win... Are you blowing the case out so that it expands to the same diameter as the belt? If so, are you worried about the strech point at the edge of the belt forming a weak band and separating?

 

[RhinoDefense]

Since this is a fun rifle and not likely be used in Africa, I think the best match for cartridge to rifle is the 9.3x62. Will be more controllable in the light rifle and would make a great elk and bear gun.

When it comes to medium and large bore cartridges, the standards work well and I'm not fond of the short fat magnums. If you go that route, stick with the H&H, Rigby/Rem Mag, and Win Mag.

 

[berettashotgun]

Hard to beat 338 bullet selection for a reloader, 6mm and a 7mm seem to be the other bullet selection meccas. 6.5mm is really comming around and I think the 30 cal has a small following............
I personally opted for the 375 caliber in a 376 styer and a 700 in 375 ultra.
Wish I had bought several of the 376 rifles. The SBS styer is everything I want from a DG rifle, but I'd go over .400" if I was to call it a true "STOPPER".
The 700 was a terrible choice in 375, numerous problems related to massive recoil, but the 376 is a joy to shoot. Seems forgotten

Hornady WAS the brass supply for the 376, but they have another up and commer to support - and might well get sidetracked again with the 375 ruger.

 

[Dr T]

The 9.3 has been making a significant comeback worldwide in recent years, however. There are some interesting components available (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9.3×62mm)

While I solved this need for an African rifle with a Model 70 375 H&H (and am waiting for feral hogs to make it to the ranch, which I plan to protect from invasion), I do understand your desire for the Ruger with that barrel mounted sling swivel.

If I were going to get a 9.3x62, however, I would be sorely tempted by a CZ550 FS. It costs about the same, I like the CZ sights a bit more, and the stock has enough drop to use them (plus I have a number of Ruger M77s and I just like the full stock of the CZ).

See http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/411540544

Just an alternative I wanted to mention...

 

[RhinoDefense]

My .375 H&H is a CZ550 Magnum. I love it. Great alternative to the Ruger.

 

[35 Whelen]

9.3x62
Pros:
-Tosses heavy bullets at moderate speeds for good killing power without terribly severe recoil.

Well, I don't know about that! I shoot a Whelen ALOT (see upper left corner), but Dad's CZ in 9.3x62mm just beats me to death! MAybe it's the 286 gr. bullets, but it kicks! But obviously, physics dictate that it won't kick as much as a 338 WM or a 375 H&H. My vote is for the 9.3.


I really like Dad's CZ 9.3x62. It's a sweet, classy looking accurate rifle. The Hawkeye's are nice too, but here's truly a classy, African type rifle:








Dad had it built recently (for no real reason other than a love for the 9.3x62mm) and as I type this, it's sitting in my safe waiting to be fired for the first time.

We're leaving for an elk hunt in about a week and a half and he thinks nothing of sliding a rifle of this quality in a saddle scabbard on his mule and heading up the mountain!

35W