: (AK) Man shoots menacing bear 07-29-03

[WAGCEVP]

: (AK) Man shoots menacing bear 07-29-03



http://www.peninsulaclarion.com/stories/072903/ala_072903ala007001.shtml

Grizzly shot in neighborhood outside Fairbanks
FAIRBANKS (AP) < A Goldstream Valley homeowner shot a grizzly bear in
his driveway last week that ignored warning shots.

The bear is the second killed in the last year west of the University of
Alaska Fairbanks.

Stan Tonelli told state game officials he and his wife had returned home
from work late Wednesday when the bear, weighing more than 350 pounds,
ran toward them.

The doorway to Tonelli's house was open and he heard his neighbor
yelling at his dog and shooting warning shots at the bear. His neighbor
had found the bear licking his barbecue grill

The bear was about 25 yards away when Tonelli fired his .308 rifle.

''It was walking straight down. I hollered at it, but it just kept
coming,'' Tonelli said. ''I put a bullet in him and he turned sideways.

''I know I shot eight times. I don't know if I hit it all the time.''

A Fish and Wildlife Protection trooper inspected the kill. Don Young, a
biologist at Fairbanks' Alaska Department Fish and Game office, said the
kill likely will be considered justified because warning shots were
fired.

 

[PATH]

If a bear puts its head down and keeps coming at you even with warning shots fired you are probably being considered as a tasty morsel. I presume there was no threat display. Sounds like prdacious behavior on the part of the bear.

 

[TallPine]

Isn't 350 pounds a rather small grizzly ...?

 

[CZ-100]

Isn't 350 pounds a rather small grizzly ...?

Yes I would say it is small. He was prolly wearing a T-Shirt and his name was BOO-BOO.

 

[El Tejon]

That's it! Way to go, hairy-chested Westerner!

 

[treeprof]

Isn't 350 pounds a rather small grizzly ...?

Not necessarily for an Interior bear.

I used to bike in that area a lot, but never ran across any bears.

 

[TallPine]

So when we talk about cartridges for defense against grizzlies. we need to know whether we are talking about 400 lb grizzly bears or 1200 lb grizzly bears.

 

[Keith]

350 pounds is about average for an interior or "mountain grizzly". It's only coastal grizzlies (brown bears) that get really large.


350 pounds is still a large animal and they are built so that (when facing you) they have a lot of mass between your rifle and their vitals. You still have to make a brain shot or break down their skeleton to stop one on the spot.

Keith

 

[TallPine]

Thanks, Keith

Then Montana grizzlies are probably about the same as your "interior" grizzlies.

So a 44 mag or equivalent is not necessarily useless against a grizzly, depending on where you are.

Not everyone is going to carry a 30-06 or larger rifle for casual summer hiking on the off chance that you might meet and be attacked by a bear.

Heck, a most tourists don't carry anything for defense.

Of course, the two-legged bears are always the most dangerous.

 

[Keith]

Yeah, it's the same critter from central Alaska right down through the rockies to your neck of the woods.

A friend of mine killed an old male on the southern slopes of the Brooks Range that turned out to be 29 years old when the tooth was examined by the state boys. The bear had charged him and it took two rounds from a 7mm mag to put it down. The first shot took out a shoulder and put it down for a moment and he spined it with the second shot and put it down permanently.
Anyway, 29 years old is REAL old for a bear. They couldn't weigh it out in the field, but the hide only squared 6 1/2 feet - there are black bears larger than that!

Still, they are very tough critters to kill and there are lots of cases where they've soaked up a whole lot of lead before becoming "good" bears.

Keith

 

[treeprof]

TallPine - Keith beat me to a reply, but he's right on.

29 for a bear? Man, that's pretty ancient.

My dad took a pretty nice grizz on the Seward peninsula this spring - they get some monsters there, >2x the size Interior bears, but of course the habitat is much better and life isn't nearly as hard.

 

[TallPine]

Thanks, guys

I just get tired of the "no handgun is suitable for protection against grizzlies" tirades that I read a lot.

For coastal grizzlies ("brown bears") I realize that is more than true. A crew served weapon would be desirable in that case

Of course, for defense against any bear, I would prefer to have at least a 30-30 or better. But you don't always carry a rifle every step that you go. It would be pretty hard to fish or set up a tent or cook supper over a fire with a rifle in your hands. And a rifle in a sling over your back would be good only to make you a little harder to swallow whole

For the coastal brown bears, IMO a 38 snubbie would be the most helpful. You could use on yourself just before being eaten

 

[Keith]

I'm usually the first one to jump up and say "handguns ain't for bears!"

However... There are times and places where you can't carry a rifle - national parks for example. I'd rather have a .44 under my jacket than a .45/70 in the trunk of my car. Of course, that would be ILLEGAL and just plain WRONG!

Keith

 

[dandean316]

Don Young, a biologist at Fairbanks' Alaska Department Fish and Game office, said the
kill likely will be considered justified because warning shots were
fired.

Ok, we don't have bears in southern Minnesota, but warning shots for a bear? Would that really discourage a bear? I would think the shooting would be justified because the bear was a threat.

However... There are times and places where you can't carry a rifle - national parks for example.

Can you carry at all in national parks? We just got CCW and I know a lot of guys who want it for fishing trips in northern Minnesota.

 

[Keith]

No, you can't carry a gun in national parks.

Keith

 

[spacemanspiff]

call your states department of fish and game, and ask them specifically what areas you can NOT carry in, and be sure to ask if they mean open carry or concealed carry.
the state parks have different guidelines than national parks. they may allow concealed carry but not open, or vice versa. see if they will fax you over in writing the exact details.

 

[Deepdiver]

Yes I would say it is small. He was prolly wearing a T-Shirt and his name was BOO-BOO.

That is why picnic baskets are illegal in many of the mountain states....

 

[Keith]

You can carry concealed or open in all Alaska state parks. It's only the G!!Da!!ed feds that prohibit it in national parks!

Keith

 

[spacemanspiff]

keith, i've heard conflicting answers on that question, and spent the better part of an hour on the phone calling various offices. no one seemed to have a clear answer, and the last person i talked to was a F&G officer, and you know what? i cant recall if it was open carry or concealed that was verboten. heck, i dont even remember which park it was that i was calling for. could have been federal. whats the name of the park thats near portage glacier?
what i do remember though is the officer saying that discharging a firearm is illegal while on that park land, but its justifiable if its in self defense. so, no target shooting.

 

[Keith]

Yeah, discharging a firearm is generally illegal in Alaska state parks. Carrying (concealed or otherwise) for self-defense is not.
In national parks (not forests, refuges, etc,) it is illegal to bear arms.

I have no idea what's near portage glacier...

Keith