AK or SKS?

[sctman800]

I have finally decided to look for a long gun, I am primarily into handguns and am pretty ignorant about semi auto rifles. I just shot in a two gun match at my local club the first time Sunday with a borrowed AR and really had a ball. I liked the AR really well but that is a bit more money than I want to spend right now. I can get a "parts kit" AK in really nice shape from a friend for about $400. This sounds reasonable to me, but from what I have heard I should be able to pick up an SKS for half that. This will also be for home defense if it ever becomes necessary and I like the 7.62 over the .223 for that. So what can you tell me to move me tward one of these two choices. Maybe next year I will look at the AR when hopefully I will have a little more money to spend. Thanks, Jim.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

I don't think I'd pay $400 for a parts kit AK. I paid $320 for my Romanian AK clone, new, and put a new rear sight and pistol grip on it for less than $400. Of course I also had to give it a trigger job and polish around the mag well with a Dremel but I have to believe you can do better for pricing an AK if you shop around. You could probably pick up a WASR, drop a G2 trigger group in it, put the Mojo ghost ring sight on it, and the M249 style grip and still be under or around $400. Just make sure it accepts standard capacity magazines instead of the reduced capacity single-stack ten rounders and you should be fine.

 

[Gary G23]

AK is definitely better than a SKS since it has a detachable magazine but I don't think I would pay $400 for an AK unless it had a milled receiver.

 

[Smokey Joe]

Competition or blasting?

Sctmn800--You're planning on using this for competition? Then bite the bullet or borrow some $$ and get an accurized, heavy bbl AR.

The AK and the SKS are battle rifles, and made to be maintained by illiterate peasants. You will NOT get competition accuracy from them without (a) being lucky in the draw as to what individual gun you get, and (b) then doing major tweaking on it.

By the time you have a really accurate AK or SKS you'll have expended sufficient time, energy, frustration, and $$ to have gotten yourself an accurate AR in the first place, IMHO.

Now, if you just want a fun gun for blasting, or a 50-yard-or-so hunting weapon, either the AK or the SKS is fine. (My preference is the SKS; that's what I have. Some prefer the AK platform.)

But an out-of-the-box MOA weapon they ain't.

 

[TooTaxed]

SKS and AK use the same inexpensive ammo. The SKS has a longer barrel and sight distance than the AK, and I find I get better groups with the SKS. (Mine particularly likes Brown Bear HP.) The SKS has inexpensive aftermarket detachable 10, 20, and 30 round mags, but they are not as fast to change as the AK. I've gone back to a ten round mag for my SKS because the longer mags are a pain in the butt when shooting from the bench or prone, and I normally load only five or ten rounds anyway. IMHO, the AK is not as versatile as the SKS. The AK is by design a short range standing combat "spray" gun...but the SKS can do that too with the larger magazines. And, SKS's are far cheaper then AKs.

 

[sctman800]

I just figured it out. Like I said I am pretty ignorant about these things, I didn't realise the SKS did not have a detachable magazine. This is a must have feature so the SKS is out.
Smokey Joe, I realise you have a good point about the AK being a "battle rifle" but the competion is just for fun and the longest shot I would have to make at my club is about 60 yards. So I should be in the ball park with the AK, and like I said, probably next year an AR. Thanks much for your help, Jim.

 

[sctman800]

Too Taxed: we must have been typing at the same time and you beat me to the post. Now I am really confused, I will have to look into the detachable mags you mentioned. Jim.

 

[clange]

AK is definitely better than a SKS since it has a detachable magazine but I don't think I would pay $400 for an AK unless it had a milled receiver.

Theres hardly any advantage to a milled receiver AK. The AKs reputation came largely from the stamped receiver AKM. Milled AKs were only made for 8 years. Stamped will be just as reliable and weigh less while doing it.

As far as whether or not you should buy it, well thats a totally different matter.

1) Who built it?
2) Is it reliable as far as you know?
3) What kind of receiver was it built on?

In almost all cases, if you just want a cheap reliable 7.63x39 AK, a factory gun like a SAR or even a WASR will be a better choice than a kit build. There is no reason to spend more for a kit build unless 1) its something you cant buy from a factory, 2) you could buy it from a factory but it would cost too much, or 3) you just really want a nicer finish.

Lastly, i would suggest that .223/5.56 is a better for home defense, by far, than 7.62x39 if you have to worry about over penetration. If you get a good round .223 will penetrate walls less than pistol rounds, and still do significant damage to any worthy targets it contacts. If you have neighbors/family that live relatively close by i would go with .223 or a shotgun for home defense. If you want .223 but cant afford an AR, get a SAR-3 or a WASR-3. You can get a new WASR-3 for $330, and .223 steel mags are 4 for $50.

 

[Smokey Joe]

Detatchable mags

Sctmn800--If you gotta have the detatchable mags, may I strongly suggest that you do NOT want the adapted mags that fit most SKS's.

The SKS was made with a very good 10-round non-removable mag, which works like gangbusters. Remove that and try to fit the so-called "duckbill" adapted AK mags and you have asked for trouble. Most people who try it say that there are none of the duckbill mags that are not a POS.

So, you're right, it's the AK for you.

Having said that I have to ask WHY you must have the detatchables. The SKS loads--plenty fast--from stripper clips that are quite cheap and readily available. Will you be needing to fire more than 10 rounds without a pause?

Regarding penetration of .223's vs. 7.62x39's: The Box o' Truth website is back up and running, and they have a fascinating discussion of penetration within a house and through the outside walls. www.theboxotruth.com

 

[clange]

You're planning on using this for competition? Then bite the bullet or borrow some $$ and get an accurized, heavy bbl AR.

The AK and the SKS are battle rifles, and made to be maintained by illiterate peasants. You will NOT get competition accuracy from them without (a) being lucky in the draw as to what individual gun you get, and (b) then doing major tweaking on it.

If his only competition is 'minute of torso' type stuff then an AK will do fine. (I dont know what two gun is, but i assume its not like benchrest shooting).

Recently a regular on ak47.net posted results from a shoot him and some other guys participated in. Small bore AKs (5.45 and .223) took first, second, third over a bunch of ARs.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Recently a regular on ak47.net posted results from a shoot him and some other guys participated in. Small bore AKs (5.45 and .223) took first, second, third over a bunch of ARs.

Someone must have gone and swapped all the .223 ammo with .17 Rem. and it went unnoticed.

AK is definitely better than a SKS since it has a detachable magazine but I don't think I would pay $400 for an AK unless it had a milled receiver

+1

Milled AKs were only made for 8 years.

Maybe the actual soviet-made models.

 

[clange]

Maybe the actual soviet-made models.

Yes, i meant the actual russian weapons.

Someone must have gone and swapped all the .223 ammo with .17 Rem. and it went unnoticed.

Not sure what you mean by this, but here you go.

http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=64&t=74985 (stats linked to in first post)

1 and 3 were 5.45, and 2 was 5.56. I'm not saying an AK is better than an AR (and who knows how good the AR shooters were), i'm just saying dont discount them in such competitions.

 

[sctman800]

More information on my needs and wants. The matches I have started are not sanctioned by anyone, just a way to enjoy shooting. The matches are based on IDPA rules with an ocassional rifle or shotgun stage thrown in. Our range is nice but short, max 65 yards. I have watched a couple matches and now competed in one, and I am hooked. It is open to anyone and designed to have fun and not to be super serious competition. If anyone is near east central Illinois everyone would be welcome to come out and enjoy, PM me and I will give you more info.
As far as home defense, I am really more comfortable with handguns and have what I consider a good assortment, .25apc to 454Casull and several more useful calibers in between. The first thing I pick up is either a 38spl or 45acp, also one shotgun, I just feel more confident with hand guns.
Yes ten rounds would be sufficent as long as it will reload fast, I will check that out. So I gues it looks like I will have to get my hands on both AK and SKS and see how they feel in person, from what you have told me it looks like either would be sufficent for my needs. The only limit to my wants is my wallet. Jim.

 

[rick_reno]

My neighbor wanted one to hunt deer with, he ended up with a SKS that takes AK magazines. When he got it, it already had a 5 shot magazine in it making it ok to hunt with. It's effective on deer, he's taken 3 nice deer with it. He said he could hunt with the SKS because of the magazine capacity. I've never asked a F&G guy if it's ok if you only load 5 rounds.
Do they make replacement 5 shot magazines for the standard SKS? If they do maybe I'll look into getting one. $150 for a rifle is a good deal.

 

[dfaugh]

SKS-D or SKS-M

All the advatages of the SKS, with AK detachable mags..not to mention a bit collectible as they are reletively rare...I have an SKS-M and wouldn't trede ti for an AK ever...Not that AKs are bad, but mines more accurate and at least as durable...I have a 5 round mag, as well several 30s and 40s, iT works flawlessly with all of 'em

 

[Baba Louie]

rick
check out florida gun works for the 5 rd detachable (so you gotta go through stripping and replacement process...)
http://www.floridagunworks.com/Merc...&Product_Code=1234&Category_Code=AKA+SKS+MAGS

 

[dolanp]

Capacity is really the only question you need to wonder about. If a fixed 10-rd mag is okay for you then the SKS is the most 'value'. If you want higher capacity detachables then go with an AK. Now there are those SKS rifles around that will take AK mags but IMO you might as well get the AK.

 

[goon]

If you ask your local game comission guys, maybe you could get away with blocking the standard magazine so it only holds 5 rounds.
Shouldn't be too hard to cut a block of wood or something to fit in the mag and keep the follower from traveling down.

 

[.45Guy]

I would try to find an SKS that was made to accept true AK mags. They command a premium, but they're worth it. The only problem is they won't accept the 75 round drum unless you do a little dremmel work to make it look like a ppsh-41

 

[Smokey Joe]

5 shot maximum

Rick_Reno--For deer hunting, check the state rules in which you intend to hunt. Most states don't care how many rounds fit in a deer rifle mag. There must be a few that do care, because you see mention of it now & again, but I don't know which state(s) that'd be.

The only magazine limit for most hunters is waterfowl--There is a Federal limit of 3 shells in the gun (2 in the mag + 1 in the chamber) for those species for which you need a Federal duck stamp.

 

[.45Guy]

Wisconsin does, they even have "legal" en-blocs for garands.

 

[Sewerman]

I would get a Saiga. I have one I bought for 350 bucks and its WAY more accurate than any of my AKs have ever been. I am certain i will get skewered for putting this in print but i have NEVER had an AR that i didnt have to @#$% with constantly to keep it runnin.

 

[Commissar Gribb]

5.45 AKs can be quite accurate compared to just about any 7.62 model. I get about the same results with my M4gery as with my polish tantal AK74.

 

[benEzra]

The SKS has inexpensive aftermarket detachable 10, 20, and 30 round mags, but they are not as fast to change as the AK.

For most SKS's imported after the early '90's, changing to a double-stack detachable magazine would be a felony violation of 18 USC 922(r) unless you replace enough other parts to keep the foreign-made parts count at 10. Which makes it as expensive as getting a civilian AK lookalike to start with.

The AK is by design a short range standing combat "spray" gun

I'd have to disagree with the conception of civilian AK lookalikes as "spray guns." My SAR-1 (Romanian AK) is as accurate as my wife's Russian SKS, at least with Wolf (better ammo might give the SKS an edge, but I can't find Lapua anymore). I took my SAR-1 to the range this weekend and kept all my shots on the paper at 200 yards, and 100 yard offhand shots with the iron sights weren't a tight group but they were in the center of the target. It's not an AR, but it's capable of 2.5 to 3 MOA from a cold barrel, which is better than my mini-14...the sights, not the basic design, are the main accuracy limiter, and the SKS suffers from similar sights.