AK or VZ-58?

[coosbaycreep]

I'm thinking about shuffling around my gun collection, and another one of my guns I'm thinking about changing is my Romanian SAR-1 AK.

I bought it new, and have put probably 2k rounds through it with only one jam (and that was with winchester ammo of all things, as all but 20 rounds have been the cheapo wolf ammo), and the accuracy is good enough for me. My AK is getting some trigger slap, which makes it unpleasant to shoot, and even with the longer KVAR stock on it, it still feels like it was made for a midget communist.

Even if I "upgrade" to another AK or different 7.62x39mm platform, I'll still probably keep this AK, but I'm thinking about getting something else for my main SHTF gun.

I already read the other post about someone asking about arsenal AKs, and everybody just says to get a saiga, so I guess I won't ask if I should get an arsenal. I don't want a milled AK anyway, because of the weight.

The saigas are reasonably priced, but the conversion sounds difficult to me, and paying someone for labor and the parts to do it makes the price not so appealing by the time all is said and done. The good thing is, I could still use all my AK mags, and I would have a stamped AK set up the way I want.

I am also considering just upgrading the AK I have with different furniture, muzzle brake, trigger, etc., but was wanting opinions on which parts would make it better, or if it is even worth investing the money in anyway. One of the things I was interested in was a VFG. I've never shot a gun with a VFG, but they seem to be popular with all the mall ninjas who shoot ARs. So would a VFG make an AK more accurate/comfortable to shoot?

I've also been reading about the vz58, which sounds like it might possibly be a better option than any AK. I know they're completely different than an ak and take different mags, but they also claim to have a lot of improvements over a regular ak, which should make them better. Then again, I haven't heard anything about the combat record of the vz58, and everyone knows the ak is the most battle proven auto in history.

So is vz58 reliability comparable to ak reliability? What about accuracy? Is the vz more accurate than an AK? Is a saiga more accurate than my romanian ak? Is the vz more comfortable to shoot than an AK? How reliable are the VZ mags? Does anyone make a drum for the VZ? Is spare parts and different furniture readily available for the vz58? Am I a rambling crackhead?

thanks

 

[Wes Janson]

The VZ58 has most definitely seen use over the years; worry not over that.

More accurate than an AK is like asking whether a particular Honda year and model is faster than "a pickup truck". Maybe yes, maybe no, maybe the question is hopelessly vague. Best summarized answer is that you can expect roughly the same level of accuracy from a normal VZ as you would from a normal AK.

Reliability is about the same story. There are many unreliable AKs, truth be told (millions of 'em out there). There are also unreliable VZ58s. In my limited experience, the -58s in this country are generally reliable.

On the other hand, the VZ-58 is a more comfortable and ergonomic rifle by far than a normal AK, in my opinion. And there's plenty of stuff to change out on the platform.

 

[nalioth]

More accurate than an AK is like asking whether a particular Honda year and model is faster than "a pickup truck". Maybe yes, maybe no, maybe the question is hopelessly vague. Best summarized answer is that you can expect roughly the same level of accuracy from a normal VZ as you would from a normal AK.

I disagree with your analogy.

It would be better stated "Is the Wankel rotary engine smoother than a piston engine?"

The operating mechanism of the Vz58 is totally different from the AK, and comparing the two, makes the Vz58 the "more accurate" design.

 

[9mmepiphany]

the Czechs have a long firearms history...think CZ

the Vz58 is more accurate and lighter, while being a milled receiver as opposed to a stamped one

 

[Proinsias]

I've always wanted a vz. 58 and have less interest in a standard AK. The only point I can see against the vz. 58 is that the mags aren't the same, and therefore rarer and more expensive. If you can get past that point, I'd say go for it.

 

[chris in va]

Install a Tapco trigger, longer buttstock and consider things fixed.

the Vz58 is more accurate and heavier,

There, fixed it for you.

 

[Wes Janson]

I disagree with your analogy.

It would be better stated "Is the Wankel rotary engine smoother than a piston engine?"

The operating mechanism of the Vz58 is totally different from the AK, and comparing the two, makes the Vz58 the "more accurate" design.

Okay, they're different. The intrinsic accuracy potential differences between a rotating-bolt gas-piston operating system and a tilting-bolt gas-piston operating system are utterly irrelevent in the context of a rifle firing low-quality ammunition and fitted with relatively primitive notch-and-post sights.

If you've got really good eyesight, and handload your 7.62x39, you might see a slight advantage of a VZ-58 over a typical WASR-10. Compared against a higher-quality AK fitted with a decent scope? I'd bet good money on the AK. The rifle design (as usual) is not the primary hinderance to accuracy in this particular instance.

The only point I can see against the vz. 58 is that the mags aren't the same, and therefore rarer and more expensive.

Czechpoint has VZ-58 mags for $13 apiece. That's barely more than the cheapest AK mags go for. Buy a dozen or two and never worry about the problem again.

 

[Dollar An Hour]

VZ's are lighter than stamped AK's. I own both.

Or, you can Google "VZ lighter than" and see all the hits to articles about the fact that the VZ is lighter than a stamped AK.

 

[9mmepiphany]

There, fixed it for you.

do you have an extremely light AK or an Extremely heavy Vz?

i've only handed a couple, but in both cases the Vz has been the lighter of the two

 

[matai]

So what are the pros and cons?

VZ58 Pros
-Lighter
-Slimmer
-Shorter
-Higher quality
-Cheaper than high quality AK
-Unique

VZ58 Cons
-Does not take AK mags

AK Pros
-Rugged...er
-Takes all AK parts

AK Cons
-Probably not as accurate
-Heavier

 

[rocinante]

I was handling a VZ58 and really liked the way it felt and yeah even with the milled receiver I think it was lighter. I have an AK too.

If you got the AK get the VZ58. I think classicarms.us has them for 550. They have come down in price a lot. If there weren't so many other things on my wishlist than another black rifle I would be all over it.

 

[VA27]

If I could only have one, I'd get the Vz. If I had a choice between another AK and a Vz, I'd get the Vz. I got the chance to shoot one a while back and I was really impressed with the light weight and accuracy.

 

[Isher]

Coosbay -

Here's something you might find interesting:

http://50ae.net/VZ-vs-AK/

I concur that the 58 is lighter, better made, and shoots

Straighter than I can.

Other things I'll add are -

Lesser perceived recoil/better target acquisition than an AK,

It is a soft shooting gun.

Still gets hotter than a Saturday night special if you

Really run rounds through it - just like the AK.

And neither of them were designed to be effective

Beyond, say, 100 yards.

Mine is a folder, and I haven't needed to add

Any EBW bling for "performance".

The thing about the interchangeability of mags with an

AK is kind of a brainfart argument.

I've got a few autoloading pistols, and, hully gee,

None of their clips interchange except in the case

Of my deuce P-01's.


isher

 

[DMK]

My AK is getting some trigger slap, which makes it unpleasant to shoot

I had the same problem with my SAR1 when I got it. However, swapping out the trigger assembly (I used an FSE trigger in mine) and tossing the aftermarket recoil buffer fixed the problem.

I also had trouble acquiring the sights quickly. This was solved by opening the notch in the rear sight slightly with a dremel. Then I Gunkoted the whole rifle flat black and painted the front sight post flat red. It's enjoyable to shoot now and has never given me any problems since.

The short stock doesn't bother me. The AK has practically no recoil and it gets you closer to the rear sight.

 

[FMJMIKE]

I am keeping my two Sar-1s...............I suggest you keep yours..........

 

[armoredman]

SA vZ-58 for me. Had AKs, more than one, all gone now.



The vertical foregrip helps a lot with heat, which can be an issue with the issued forearm.

Accuracy is not bad.





I like it. Mags are getting cheaper too, and all the import ones are pre ban - Czechpoint-USA has declarations on file, for those who still live in ban states.

 

[Isher]

Jeez, Armoredman -

Don't need to be no Bladerunner for a 58.

All in good fun..............

 

[armoredman]

I like your shoulder rig. Nice picture.

 

[nalioth]

the Vz58 is more accurate and heavier,

Actually, the Vz58 is about one pound ligher than a stamped receiver AK, even though it has a milled receiver.

VZ58 Cons
-Does not take AK mags

The AR10 doesn't take M-14 mags, either. HEY THEY'RE BOTH MADE IN THE USA!! THEY'RE BOTH 7.62x51 NATO RIFLES!!! WHY DON'T THE MAGS INTERCHANGE!?!? WAAAAAAAAAAAAA
The Romanian PSL doesn't take SVD mags, either. HEY THEY'RE BOTH MADE BY COMMUNISTS! THEY'RE BOTH 7.62x54R RIFLES!!! WHY DON'T THE MAGS INTERCHANGE!?!? WAAAAAAAAAAAAA

The Vz58 is not a Kalashnikov, and expecting parts to interchange is idiocy.

 

[armoredman]

Only thing that interchanges between vZ-58 and AK pattern is ammunition. And yes, I measured it, loaded vZ-58 and loaded WASR-10, the WASR was over a pound heavier, on my cheesy bathroom scale.

 

[Snakum]

The answer is always "keep what ya got and buy the other one, too."

I handled a VZ recently but didn't get to fire it. It had a very nice feel and lined up quickly. I'll probably get one after I get a .308 or 54R in the stable.

 

[DMK]

Nalioth, you need to cut back on the coffee dude.

Yea, that expectation that AK and vz58s should be wholly compatible bugs me too. They are different rifles like a Valmet or Galil.

It's like the SKS vs vz52 carbine or Tokarev vs the CZ-52 handgun, or Makarov vs CZ-82. The Czechs have a long history of high quality firearms production. They don't just make carbon copies of someone else's design. They always have to do it their own way, and IMO better

 

[nalioth]

Yea, that expectation that AK and vz58s should be wholly compatible bugs me too. They are different rifles like a Valmet or Galil.

The Valmet and Galil (and the unmentioned South African R4) are all variants of the Kalashnikov , and many of the parts will interchange (so they're not so different, at all).

 

[CornCod]

I would go for the VZ-58 route, even though I have never owned one, I have heard many good things about them.

 

[tipsovr]

I've owned several WASRs and SAR1s. I sold all of them and now own 2 VZ 58 rifles. (ok, I still have my Arsenal AK) I find the ergonomics of the VZ much better than any AK. My personal experience is that I can get better groupings with the VZ at 100+ yards. Actually, getting any kind of accuracy over 100 yards with one of my WASRs was a joke.

If you are looking for a SHTF rifle in some crazy apocalyptic world, go with an AK. You will always be able to find parts. If you are looking for a very good shooting rifle, buy the VZ.