AK or VZ-58?

[Maverick223]

Didn't realize that the Century didn't come with a hard chrome lined bore and chamber, however it is not surprising because their AKs are also not HC lined. Buy what you want, but I do not want a rifle that is chambered for cheap (mostly corrosive) commie surplus that is not HC lined.

 

[nalioth]

Buy what you want, but I do not want a rifle that is chambered for cheap (mostly corrosive) commie surplus that is not HC lined.

. . . and where are you buying this "cheap (mostly corrosive) commie surplus" 7.62x39 ammunition?

 

[gotmine]

I'll take cheap corrosive commie....I have on hand hot water, soap, oil, and sufficient swabs and brushes.

My 58 is good enough, though not quite as robust as my ak's. Some of my ak's are every bit as accurate also. The acquisition of a totally different animal was my intent....The only choice should be as to which one to get first to feed the habit.

 

[MCMXI]

Okay, they're different. The intrinsic accuracy potential differences between a rotating-bolt gas-piston operating system and a tilting-bolt gas-piston operating system are utterly irrelevent in the context of a rifle firing low-quality ammunition

The Vz.58 bolt neither rotates nor tilts so .... HUH?!

coosbaycreep, I bought a Vz.58 a while back and I really like it. I bought a CZ with the D-TECHNIK receiver and it's a well made rifle.

Upgrades I've made:
Replaced horrible, short unergonomic pistol grip with an FAB Defense pistol grip.
Replaced uncomfortable buttstock with a Bushmaster AR-15 collapsible buttstock.
Replaced the Czech piston with a US made piston.

Upgrades I have but haven't installed yet:
M4 flash hider.
Steel US made trigger.
Tactical mag release (not sure of material, possibly Al alloy or polymer but it's basically crap - bought from INFRATEK). I'll be very surprised if it works well or works for long but we'll see.


If you're looking for parts, www.czechpoint-usa.com is one of the best places. I bought 10 milsurp magazines for $13 a piece. The magazines with plastic followers don't hold the bolt/carrier back after the last round (that's been my experience anyway).

Personally, I wouldn't consider ordering anything from INFRATEK. The owner Paul Bukovsky is an incompetent moron. When he finally got around to shipping my order about a month after I placed it, he addressed the package without any street name ... just a house number and a town. I paid with PayPal which lists my address explicitly. It took me (and the post office) days to find the package. If I hadn't made the effort, the package would have been returned to INFRATEK which was probably the moron's plan from the start. Anyway, I digress .... in summary, the Vz.58 is a great little rifle. I've never wanted an AK anything and still don't. Would I buy another Vz.58 ... heck yeah and I plan on doing just that!

 

[nalioth]

The magazines with plastic followers don't hold the bolt/carrier back after the last round (that's been my experience anyway).

If you buy a US made pistol grip, you can legally use standard issue milsurp mags (you've already purchased a US made gas piston).

 

[Maverick223]

If you buy a US made pistol grip, you can legally use standard issue milsurp mags (you've already purchased a US made gas piston).

Good point...then you can have better floor plates (IIRC the replacements are plastic) to go with the followers.

 

[MCMXI]

If you buy a US made pistol grip, you can legally use standard issue milsurp mags (you've already purchased a US made gas piston).

Surely the US made buttstock (Bushmaster AR-15) counts as one less foreign part? I have a US trigger steel trigger to replace the plastic US trigger so no change there. The US made M4 flash hider counts as one less foreign part. With a US made piston I only have 7 foreign parts in all so I'm more than ok with milsurp magazines.

I'm going to order a spare bolt carrier, cut off the charging handle and weld it on the left side, then GUN-KOTE it. I wonder if that'd count as a US made part?!

Good point...then you can have better floor plates (IIRC the replacements are plastic) to go with the followers.

The follower and floor plate are both plastic on the US magazines. Fortunately, my Vz.58 only came with one useless US mag, so I'll use the body and spring but throw away the rest. I have 10 milsurp mags at present and will probably order a few more soon.

 

[Maverick223]

I'm going to order a spare bolt carrier, cut off the charging handle and weld it on the left side, then GUN-KOTE it. I wonder if that'd count as a US made part?

If it counts as a part (which I doubt), replace the charging handle with something else that is made in the US (just look around the shop till you find something that appeals to you), then stamp "USA" on it with a punch set and you just made your own...but that won't work for the entire bolt unless of course you decide to make the entire thing).

As far as the mags, you could also make your own floor plate (I wouldn't even attempt the follower, but if you want try it too). Get some thick SS sheet and cut it to size, stamp "USA" on it, then gun-kote. You'll be good to go, and have a better floor plate than the issue version or the molested Civie version.

 

[nalioth]

I'm going to order a spare bolt carrier, cut off the charging handle and weld it on the left side, then GUN-KOTE it. I wonder if that'd count as a US made part?!

According to the revenooers, the function of the foreign part must change for it to count as "US made" if you modify it.

For instance:
Cutting pistol grips out of AK wood butt stocks = "US made pistol grips" (as it's not a butt stock any more)
Cutting triggers or other fire control groups out of the Vz58 bolt carrier = "US made FCG parts" (as it's not a bolt carrier any more).

Just moving the charging handle doesn't make it a "US made part", I'm afraid, cuz it's still a bolt carrier.

 

[Sean King]

I have the CAI VZ-2008. Got if from Classic Arms for $489. Couldn't be happier with the rifle. Accurate (4-5" groups at 100 yards)....5/8" 5 shot groups at 25M. Reliable...runs anything you feed it. Affordable....parts are cheap as is the rifle.

I've handled the D-Techniks and other than finish...I don't see a big difference.

Sean

 

[Opoche]

+1 on the Vz 58
Not much that hasn't been said, but I would opt for the chrome lined barrel on a D Technik vs. the non lined Century if you have the cash to spare. Customer service from Czechpoint is way better than trying to deal with Century as well.
As for replacement parts Czech point carries them and there are Vz 58 armorers chests floating around with multiples of everything you could need in them.

 

[Hammerhead6814]

 

[HeavenlySword]

HAHA

another magic player!

 

[TrickyDick]

I am going to agree with tipsovr. The VZ s a short stroke design with the gas tube bottom being open, and the bolt cover on top instead of the side. I was examining it at the gunshop, and I found it to be interesting. I personally don't care for the looks of it, but looks don't really matter when it comes to performance. I have never shot one so I cannot tell you the better of the 2. However, the AK can be always rebuilt and easyily to customized. The VZ is "special" and when you talk about it to someone who is not a gun enthusiast, they'll be confused. If you were to show them a picture they would wrongfully assume it's an AK. That being said, AK-good, solid, and easy to shop for. VZ, Good, solid,accurate(so I'm hearing), and a tad bit harder to customize and get parts for. It's what fits you best. IMO, I would just rebuild the AK with nice performance parts.

 

[armoredman]

Newer parts are coming out, for instance, I just replaced my bolt release with the new one from Niet Arms that allows one finger bolt release without moving your hand off the pistol grip. You can see it along the bottom of the reciever forward of the trigger.



One thing I would love to try is the angled foregrip from MagPul, though the folding one I have from Fab works just fine.
I'm happy with mine, especially with the Israeli sling, great and fun shooter.

 

[winchester '97]

The 58 is world better in build quality, and you can really feel it when you shoot it.

 

[wlewisiii]

If I had the money, I'd get a VZ-58. Since I don't, I'll probably end up with a Draco, a tax stamp & a side folding stock... Still be cheaper than a nice Czech rifle.

William

 

[leadcounsel]

S.O.G. has 'em for $440! They are new Czech VZ58 builds. Good deal I suspect?

 

[corydonron]

S.O.G. are Century VZ2008 not Czech made VZ-58

At S.O.G. the $440.00 is for the Century Arms VZ2008 not a QUALITY Czech made VZ-58 D-Technik . I own both and if I had to only buy one it would be CZECH made VZ-58 D-Technik. The VZ2008 is still the best Gun Century Arms makes for any price. The the quality of D-Techniks Czech VZ-58 is worth it. And some day they may be worth something as an investment. I heard Century is now putting Romanian Chrome lined bores on the VZ2008 now.

 

[harmon rabb]

My buddy has a vz; I have an ak. Fired back to back, quite frankly, his vz makes my ak feel like a gigantic piece of garbage.

Although I'd still take the ak for a shtf gun, since parts will be more readily available.

 

[nalioth]

I heard Century is now putting Romanian Chrome lined bores on the VZ2008 now.

You shouldn't believe everything you hear (especially about Century).

 

[saskcop]

I have the Canadian version called the CZ858 which has the 18.5" barrel. I also have the NEA parts that enable me to cowitness through my red dot. It came with cleaning kit, four mags with pouch and sling for $650. Not bad, eh? It will shoot alongside many of my rifles including outshooting my oly AR15. Lighter than an AK. Tighter tolerances. Milled receiver. Bolt stays open after last round - stripper clip reloadable and utterly reliable. What's not to like. It is one of our few choices in Canada - but a great choice no matter where you live.

 

[BushyGuy]

VZ-58 was way more accurate and handles better then any Ak! sell a kidney and get one!