Akins Again

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madmike

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Bill Akins is now jumping onto blogs of people who are having ATF problems, trying to attach himself to their issues for sympathy votes.

It's been over a year since his issue. I've had to upgrade my perception of him from "eager and naive" to "conman."

As I see it:

He designed a recoil-operated machine gun that he thought MIGHT sneak through ATF rules.

They sent him a letter that didn't say one way or the other if it was legal.

He proceeded to sell a bunch of devices at $1000 each, that likely cost him about $100 each to make.

ATF did a proper test of his device and realized it was, in fact, a machine gun.

Everyone was ordered to disable said devices.

None of them have a refund (as far as I know). Akins is officially "broke," but kept the money.

All his cheerleaders started insisting this was the death of semiautos as we know it.

Bill is still pushing that line of BS a year later, even though ATF has made NO EFFORT to stop sales of Tac Triggers, Hellfires, or any other bump firers. There's a local guy on Youtube bump firing with a rubber band. He's not been hassled. He's written a letter to ATF inquiring. We'll know shortly.

Well, Bill, when ARE they going to come after the Hellfire that's "identical" to your mechanism? PS: if your mechanism is "identical" to theirs, why aren't you being sued for patent infringement?

All his cheerleaders find it "suspicious" the first test didn't work...yeah, it's also possible it's "suspicious" he didn't send them a properly working model. Doesn't say much for the quality, or his care on the subject. You can bet if I got a letter from Tech Branch saying, "We tried to test your device, but it broke," I'd get them a WORKING ONE ASAP, before I started selling $1000 possible full auto conversions.

I'm guessing he's still got a lot of fans who think he's some martyr for the cause. All I see is a man who was very incautious when he thought he could make a buck, hoping to find someone to front the money to bail him out of his self-made disaster.

I don't want to discuss the "it's a machine gun" "it's not" crap. ATF makes the rules. Insisting that ATF CAN'T DO THAT!!! after they have is pointless.

The question is, has anyone else REALLY had any problems bumpfiring or with semis or other devices for bump firing, or was it only Akins' machine gun?

Near as I can tell, it was the latter.

Frankly, having him show up on all these blogs whining about how he got screwed over, when he could as well have been jailed (others have, for far less), is driving me away from those and making me question THEIR credibility.

At the same time, I hate abandoning anyone to the wolves. It only makes them hungrier.
 
The only illegal conversions are those that turn a single triggerpull into multiple shots fired. A rubberband is no different than beefing up a trigger return spring.

Illegal = Akins, shoelace method, DIAS, etc.
Legal = thumb/beltloop, rubberband, etc.
 
You know, just take the spring out of the Akins design, and modify the foregrip so that it attaches to the receiver only (not to the rest of the stock), and it's legal again. Just a bump-firing assist device.
 
recoil-operated machine gun

Actually, a recoil-operated machine gun (i.e. M73, Maxim, etc) operates just like EVERY other maching gun in the world.

More than 1 round can be fired with a single pull of the trigger (single action of the trigger).

The Akins device cannot function in that manner. A single round is fired for each action of the trigger.

And, fyi, a "recoil-operated machine gun" means that it has a recoil-operated system to feed rifle-cartridges on a linked-belt -- as opposed to a system for feeding rifle cartridges that uses gases of the fired cartridge (i.e. M1895).

You do not know what you are talking about. Your personal, biased opinion on the Akins issue means nothing to me.
 
We shouldn't be having this discussion, it should be walk in to gun store $200.00 E-tax to ATF 30min later you leave with a new FA, but until SCOTUS turns out good we have this.
 
I don't want to discuss the "it's a machine gun" "it's not" crap. ATF makes the rules. Insisting that ATF CAN'T DO THAT!!! after they have is pointless.
That is just plain wrong. The ATF tries to make the rules, but that doesn't change who rightly makes the rules, which is the congress. The ATF enforces the law that is written, which is not what they are doing in this case.
 
Illegal = Akins, shoelace method, DIAS, etc.
Legal = thumb/beltloop, rubberband, etc.

I can see the logic behind banning the Akins device, but disagree based on principle.


The "shoelace" method I am not familiar with. Best guess is that anyone with a pair of Nikes and semi-auto rifle could be charged with intent to manufacture a machine gun. :)
 
The issue is that Akins submitted his stock to ATF, got the letter stating it was not a MG. Then after he spent the money into go into production, ATF changed their minds.

He's owed either reimbursement of all costs, or transferable paperwork for all stocks made under NFA-34 amnesty provisions.
 
All arms are legal under the supreme and highest law of the land. Thugs with guns disagree. Those non-thugs who disagree need to study early American history and topics such as letters of marquee.

Akins has my support, for what it's worth. Creating a completely legal device under the letter of the law (which is, in fact, all that matters) to fire one round per pull of the trigger. The law is silent on being able to pull a trigger really fast, and in an actual free country under rule of law, "all that is not forbidden is allowed."

I think it is disgusting the way the ATF has flaunted its power to ban tools by fiat.
 
in the interest of honesty

The issue is that Akins submitted his stock to ATF, got the letter stating it was not a MG. Then after he spent the money into go into production, ATF changed their minds.

While the ATFE actions are in fact despicable, they were not spontaneous. It was a Subguns regular who REQUESTED ATFE RE-REVIEW the Akins device. He sent a letter to their general counsel, not the tech branch as required for an "ATF Love Letter" as it is sometimes known. The re-review should not have been permitted legally but that's our fault for not asking more of our elected officials.
 
The issue is that Akins submitted his stock to ATF, got the letter stating it was not a MG.

What he got was a letter stating they couldn't make any determination because the sample unit he submitted was mechanically faulty and didn't survive the test (i.e. it broke). How he got a presumtion of "it's legal" from "can't make a definitive analysis" is beyond me.

He knew he was pushing the limits. He didn't follow up on an incomplete determination of his device by the ATF. He made an egregiously irresponsible assumption that "no news is good news" and began selling the units. He pocketed the money and wants everyone else to bail him out.

Not me.

He's a conman and an anti-establishment whiner. He thought he'd pulled on over on the big, bad, ATF and made a bundle of money getting people to pay him a thousand bucks for something that cost him probably ten or fifteen percent of that to make. All he really did was make instant felons out of unsuspecting buyers because of his irresponsibility, overzealous assumtion, and outright greed. He's the poster child for Sarah Brady's campaign against us, and another reason for the ATF to look at gun owners through suspicious eyes.

If it weren't for other mitigating circumstances (whetting the appetite of the ATF and handing the antis yet another bag of ammo against us) I'd say let him stew in his own whining misery.

Brad
 
All he really did was make instant felons out of unsuspecting buyers

I am a little confused here. Exactly how many people were convicted of a felony due to buying Mr Akins products ?

NukemJim
 
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Brad Johnson You are Wrong. Do yourself a BIG favour and Read the Letters Yourself, not the summary some questionable people post for you. They're not long letters and they are CRYSTAL CLEAR. How he got his decision is not confusing at all, THAT'S why he had the letters posted on his site.

THE ATF APPROVED IT. PERIOD THEY APPROVED IT. THEY SAID IT BROKE (they broke it, by doing stupid stuff), BUT THE PRINCIPLE WAS CLEAR AND THEY APPROVED IT.


So he goes ahead and dumps his life savings into it. Then just as he's about to see some return on his LIFE SAVINGS investment, the ATF changes their mind - completely CONTRARY TO THE LETTER OF THE LAW (single operation of trigger).

HE HAS EVERYTHING CONFISCATED, OR RENDERED WORTHLESS. AND RECEIVES NO COMPENSATION. HOW THE **** IS THIS CONSIDERED LEGITIMATE?

And people call HIM the crook. It's unbelievable.


He knew he was pushing the limits.

I'm sure your friends will rush to your defence when you get caught bump-firing, just like you support others... uh oh for you.


Answer 1 simple question, is bump-firing converting a rifle to a machine gun?
 
P.S.

The man spent his LIFE SAVINGS on this thing, if you can't even pretend to show respect don't bother posting on 'high road' forums. He wasn't gouging people, he was a legitimate businessman, entrepreneur, former marine, gun-rights advocate.

Yea great guy to dump on.
 
Absolutely not. Bump firing still requires you to pull the trigger for every shot.
 
The killer thing is that it was agent provacateurs like you see on this forum, except they're on all the forums, that scared investors away from the company. And guess what, when they pull their money out HE CAN'T AFFORD A LAWYER TO FIGHT THE ATF RULING.

You idiots are CONDEMNING YOURSELVES. Think about how you criticize the 39 Miller case, how he SHOULD HAVE WON but they DIDN'T fight in court. You're always (claiming) outraged. And NOW you have THE SAME THING AGAIN, and you're GLAD the guy can't get to court to fight them.

He's absolutely right under the letter of the law, and it doesn't mean a damned thing.

You don't deserve semi-auto rifles.

Look at this Mad Mike guy and the others - notice that they LIE to you, outright. Does this not seem suspicious? They get away with slandering WAR HEROS! War heros who are also entrepreneurs! And they do it in SUPPORT of the ATF!

Come-on, these 'individuals' are not exactly normal. Think twice about anything they say.
 
You can't call someone who acts suspiciously, spreads disinformation, and calls a war-hero a 'con man' an agent provocateur?

We need moderators to ban these people as soon as they show themselves, THAT's what's missing.

This 'guy' started a thread specifically to defame a now-impoverish war veteran. Specifcally when the guy he's insulting cannot rebut any of his statements. AND HIS STATEMENTS ARE OBVIOUS LIES.
madmike said:
I've had to upgrade my perception of him from "eager and naive" to "conman."

madmike said:
He designed a recoil-operated machine gun that he thought MIGHT sneak through ATF rules.

IT WAS TESTED AND APPROVED. AND IT CLEARLY COMPLIES WITH THE LETTER OF THE LAW.


madmike said:
They sent him a letter that didn't say one way or the other if it was legal.
BULL****. THEY SAID IT WAS FINE

madmike said:
He proceeded to sell a bunch of devices at $1000 each, that likely cost him about $100 each to make.

YOU START A BUSINESS. MARKET AN INVENTION AND TELL US HOW CHEAP IT IS.


madmike said:
ATF did a proper test of his device and realized it was, in fact, a machine gun.
NO IT IS NOT. THE LAW IS CRYSTAL CLEAR, THE TRIGGER IS OPERATE FOR EACH SHOT.


madmike said:
All his cheerleaders started insisting this was the death of semiautos as we know it.

BECAUSE BUMP FIRING HAS BEEN DECLARE A MACHINE GUN.



madmike said:
None of them have a refund (as far as I know). Akins is officially "broke," but kept the money.

Can you BELIEVE THIS GUY? THE BATFE STEALS, and he wants the BUSINESSMAN to refund the victims of gov't crime. THE BANKRUPT BUSINESSMAN WHO CAN'T AFFORD A LAWYER TO FIGHT THE BATFE RULING.


madmike said:
Bill is still pushing that line of BS a year later
IF YOU CONSIDER LOGIC TO BE **** THEN YOU MUST BE INVOLVE IN FED GOVT


madmike said:
I'm guessing he's still got a lot of fans who think he's some martyr for the cause. All I see is a man who was very incautious when he thought he could make a buck, hoping to find someone to front the money to bail him out of his self-made disaster.

This is the point of this guy's thread - the victim of a crime is drumming up support, so Mikey here has to go around and counter him. Why, you ask? Ask Mike. Hmm, meddlesome, dishonest, cowardly, not a lot of private enterprises that reward those type of behaviour traits.


madmike said:
I don't want to discuss the "it's a machine gun" "it's not" crap. ATF makes the rules. Insisting that ATF CAN'T DO THAT!!! after they have is pointless.

Explaining checks and balances, legislation versus regulation, confiscation without compensation, seems to be pointless as well.


madmike said:
The question is, has anyone else REALLY had any problems bumpfiring or with semis or other devices for bump firing, or was it only Akins' machine gun?

So far. Why do you suddenly defer to public approval? Why don't you go demonstrate for the beloved ATF and ask them.


madmike said:
Frankly, having him show up on all these blogs whining about how he got screwed over, when he could as well have been jailed (others have, for far less), is driving me away from those and making me question THEIR credibility.

He's a war veteran and obviously not anti-gun. What exactly are you?
 
"You don't deserve semi-auto rifles."

Why don't you take a deep breath and get a grip on yourself? And then why don't you stop calling folks names?

From what I've read, the ATF tested a defective device and approved it. Much later, someone sent, or asked them to test, a fully functional device and they said "Oops" and changed their ruling. Yes, he got a raw deal. Do I know what to do about it? No. Does anyone? Doesn't look like it.

But the namecalling needs to stop. This isn't junior high school. You know?

John
 
Actually, ATF's ruling on this is not without precedent. There was a ruling in 82/83 that any device that effectively functioned like a machinegun, WAS a machinegun.

This occurred when a gentleman built a bunch of triggerless Sten guns that dumped their entire magazine after you pulled the bolt back. The gentleman in question exploited a loophole in the system (the "pull of the trigger"). The ATF said, "not so fast".

That's all this Akins guy did. He exploited the same loophole. The ATF already ruled on this once.

Instead of defending this guy, why don't we just tray and challenge FPA '86 and get the right to own a new MG?
 
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