AL cop dies when Beretta jams

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He was on duty; it happened around 3:00pm IIRC. I have heard from various sources- and mine are better than yours, since I live here :p - that the mexicant started shooting at him as soon as the officer exited his vehicle. I hate mmqb'ing the cops actions, unless you can obviously see what they did wrong.
 
If the officer got shot upon exiting his vehicle, I'd say he did good to get off the rounds he did. Can't fault the officer in this case.

Next time at the range though, I'm going to get someone to shoot me in the arm just to see how much it effects my shooting.:rolleyes:

I'll predict now that I don't think I'll shoot as well as I normally do.
 
Next time at the range though, I'm going to get someone to shoot me in the arm just to see how much it effects my shooting.

I'll predict now that I don't think I'll shoot as well as I normally do.
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Really, whay not?
 
I have a friend that works in the Madison County Jail. He said that Albarran was bragging about killing Golden and they put him into solitary. He also said Albarran looked like he had his ass kicked when he was processed into the jail. I said to bad this wasnt the good old days, he would'nt of never made it to the jail.
 
rick newland said:
I have a friend that works in the Madison County Jail. He said that Albarran was bragging about killing Golden and they put him into solitary. He also said Albarran looked like he had his ass kicked when he was processed into the jail. I said to bad this wasnt the good old days, he would'nt of never made it to the jail.
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Okay, well and good but would he have gotten the #%@& stomped out of him if he'd killed an ordinary citizen? Or would he simply have been processed? Once again I take great exception to the notion that an officer's life is more valuable, and therefore more worthy of retribution.
 
Back in the 70's during my time with the Frankfurt MP's, us A CO 709 MP guys had a unwritten rule. If we apprehended a guy that had assaulted/raped/killed a female he did not enter the d-cell without a trip to the 97th General Hospital ER room first. That count?
 
I don't think it is the fact that they think the cop's life is worth more than a non-cop, but the fact that Albarran killed a friend makes it worse.
Like if someone kills a family member you don't even know, you may take it harder than if it was just anyone.
 
rick newland said:
Back in the 70's during my time with the Frankfurt MP's, us A CO 709 MP guys had a unwritten rule. If we apprehended a guy that had assaulted/raped/killed a female he did not enter the d-cell without a trip to the 97th General Hospital ER room first. That count?
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With cops like you we could just do away with the judicial system and buy some woodchippers to put behind the jailhouse.
 
Two years ago a guy killed a NJ cop and fled to Florida.

The Florida troopers sent him back to NJ in a coffin.

Thanks FL for saving us NJ taxpayers some money.
 
WT said:
Two years ago a guy killed a NJ cop and fled to Florida.

The Florida troopers sent him back to NJ in a coffin.

Thanks FL for saving us NJ taxpayers some money.
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Allegedlly killed or convicted? Was he assasinated or killed in a gunfight he started?
 
It's one thing to look for lessons in a tragedy like this. But the simple fact is that there are some situations you can't control, some fights you just can't win. Getting ambushed coming out of your car can happen to the most alert, tactically aware officer in the world, and if he takes a hit in the ambush he might not prevail.

I'm not saying don't train, don't adopt a warrior's mindset, don't do everything possible to survive; I'm simply saying that this poor officer may well have encountered the 'not winnable' scenario, and it's really not fair to judge him a failure.

I hope his family is provided for.


Larry
 
rick newland said:
Back in the 70's during my time with the Frankfurt MP's, us A CO 709 MP guys had a unwritten rule. If we apprehended a guy that had assaulted/raped/killed a female he did not enter the d-cell without a trip to the 97th General Hospital ER room first. That count?
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Is that after he was tried and convicted?
 
That illegal shoulda been dead if someone else had been able to carry.
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If the restaraunt they were in served alcohol, noone would have been able to carry. Or at very least many county pistol permits issued here don't allow for carry in restaraunts that serve alcohol. This alone is prohibitive for me in my decision to carry really infrequently.
 
landon74 said:
Who was it that said 'speed is fine, accuracy is final'.....
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The folks at Thunder Ranch used to say this. It is a misquote of Wyatt Earp who ended the statement with "accuracy is everything."

Malfunction drills should be a significant part of ever officer's training. There are too many stories of this sort of thing happening.
 
Derby FALs said:
With cops like you we could just do away with the judicial system and buy some woodchippers to put behind the jailhouse.
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Here is another story for you. Once upon a time there was a Trinkhalle in Frankfurt named "Dannys". It was a MP watering hole. Four guys come in with baseball bats and knives and proceded to knock the ???? out of and cut up some MP's. One of the MP's took 1700 stiches to sew him back up. Now these MP's werent injured for who they were, but because they were MP's. Well the on duty MP's found these guys, took the guy that did all the cutting and threw him off a fouth floor balcony while he was handcuffed. It didn't kill him but he spent ten months in the hospital getting better. Afterwords he was court martialled and spent 10 years in prision. Yes sometimes justice can work. And for the Huntsville cop that was killed? I saw the crime scene there was not much he could of done. As the old saying goes "you can do everything right and still be killed" applied to this case.
 
The suspect appeared to have two loaded revolvers. I assume 12 rounds minimum?

I wasn't there. I won't say anything else.
 
rick newland said:
Here is another story for you. Once upon a time there was a Trinkhalle in Frankfurt named "Dannys". It was a MP watering hole. Four guys come in with baseball bats and knives and proceded to knock the ???? out of and cut up some MP's. One of the MP's took 1700 stiches to sew him back up. Now these MP's werent injured for who they were, but because they were MP's. Well the on duty MP's found these guys, took the guy that did all the cutting and threw him off a fouth floor balcony while he was handcuffed. It didn't kill him but he spent ten months in the hospital getting better. Afterwords he was court martialled and spent 10 years in prision. Yes sometimes justice can work. And for the Huntsville cop that was killed? I saw the crime scene there was not much he could of done. As the old saying goes "you can do everything right and still be killed" applied to this case.
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Why a fourth floor balcony? Why not sixth?
 
A couple of people on this site gave me a lot of grief a few weeks ago when I suggested that a competitive shooter would or could perform better in many situations than a cop with minimal training.

This is a perfect example. The first time a competitive shooter has a malfunction, they usually freeze up and stare at the target or pistol with a deer in the headlights look on their face. A competitor with a bit more experience will slam the mag, rack the pistol and keep going- if that fails, mag is ejected, slide is racked like hell a couple of times, another mag is slammed in and firing continues. I've seen a lot of people run through the entire process almost unconsciously faster than a newby could even load a pistol.
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This is a ludicrous comparisson. First of all you do not know squat about this officer's training. Second you do not know enough about the particulars of this gunfight. Maybe the gun jammed and he could not clear it because he had already been shot and his grip/hands were not working properly. Third, you are comparing an experienced competive shooter with a police officer with minimal training! Police should not receive minimal training. Fourth you are saying a competive shooter would do it better than a minimally trained cop, but you completely failt to address the facts that the competive shooter is shooting at a piece of paper or maybe at a bowling pin while the cop is shooting at a real live target who is shooting at him! Your argument is pure balederdash.

My agency (a federal LE agency) gives some very good malfunction clearing training and gives it at least two times a year. That may not seem like much but there is a lot of other firearms training to go around in only 4 yearly qualification/training days. This training is also taught at the basic and advanced schools in the academy. It can also be practiced by anyone on their own, and such is encouraged. We practice two handed, and one handed malfunction clearing drills. We practice them in many fashions with different typoes of malfunctions such as failure to feed, failure to extract, double feed and, so forth.

We also practice and train what to do in a real gun battle. Your competive pals on the competive only agenda are not liklely doing the same unless they are LEOs. An LEO is, or should be trained, in how to approach real live gun battle type situations. Sure some training is better than others - but the police are usually trained in combat shooting while the competive shooter is trained at paper shooting. No comparisson as to whom would or should be better trained when the poopie really hits the fan. It ain't the purist paper puncher. Of course, anyone can react and then take action differently under fire from one time to the next. if accounts of this shooting are correct, this officer gave up and raised his hands as if pleading for mercy. That is one thing no officer should ever do - and if he as not trained in that manner - well the results speak for themselves.
 
rick newland said:
Here is another story for you. Once upon a time there was a Trinkhalle in Frankfurt named "Dannys". It was a MP watering hole. Four guys come in with baseball bats and knives and proceded to knock the ???? out of and cut up some MP's. One of the MP's took 1700 stiches to sew him back up. Now these MP's werent injured for who they were, but because they were MP's. Well the on duty MP's found these guys, took the guy that did all the cutting and threw him off a fouth floor balcony while he was handcuffed. It didn't kill him but he spent ten months in the hospital getting better. Afterwords he was court martialled and spent 10 years in prision. Yes sometimes justice can work. And for the Huntsville cop that was killed? I saw the crime scene there was not much he could of done. As the old saying goes "you can do everything right and still be killed" applied to this case.
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A fella might see why the MPs were so disliked if there was the chance they would never make it to trial. Some might lash out at any MP because what a few were doing. Too bad there was no Internal Affairs to clean out the rotten eggs.
 
Reading the Newspaper account..

for whatever that may be worth...

Golden, 27, was answering a domestic violence call made to the 911 center by Albarran's wife, Laura, shortly before 3:30 p.m., Gray said. When Golden arrived at Jalisco, a Mexican grocery and restaurant at 2648 Jordan, Albarran came out the front door and started shooting, witnesses told investigators.
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When the shooting began, Golden was walking backward and returning Albarran's fire. Then Golden raised his hands in the air in front of him and seemed to be pleading for a halt to the gunfire before he fell on his back and lost his pistol.
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So no, the officer was not in his car or just exiting when the shooting started. Notice Officer Golden was responding to a 911 domestic violence call.
Looking at a typical local grocery store set up on a residencial street, usually the front door is within thirty feet - 10 yards - of the curb. I suppose it possible Albarran used the relative darkness of the store as concealment to begin his attack. If he were inside the door just a few feet, the officer might not be able to distinguish a weapon in Albarran's hands. However, Albarran's first couple shots did not end the fight; Officer Golden was still on his feet and still shooting. He just never hit Albarran.

Police also found two revolvers, a six-shot, .38-caliber Smith & Wesson and a five-shot, .38-caliber Rossi on the ground.
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So Albarran's weapons were not long range capable, any more than the Beretta carried by Officer Golden.

Here's my question: How is it the suspect could make serious body hits while Officer Golden could not connect at all? Obviously, the distance was the same for both of them. The report does not mention Albarran being struck by Golden's gunfire.

Yeah, this is sad all around. However, I don't think one can blame this on the Beretta - or even on the 9x19 cartridge. As harsh as this sounds, the officer gave tactical advantage to the badguy, and got killed for it.

I think this is one of those times the officer should have stopped down the block and walked up.
 
I think this is one of those times the officer should have stopped down the block and walked up.
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You cannot be serious, can you?

If you don't know where someone is, how is stopping down the street going to help? What is the BG was down the street?
 
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