Alabama HB582 - Shall Issue, Disorderly Conduct, etc.

[dirt_j00]

Link here.

Bill as introduced also attached.

Outline of changes to current law:

• No disorderly conduct for the mere carrying of a visible, holstered firearm in public.
• Legalizes "concealed carry" in a car without a pistol permit.
• Changes "may" to "shall" regarding pistol permits.
• Removes vague language that allows sheriffs to deny a pistol permit. Disqualifiers are now linked to current state law (13A-11-72) and federal law (felons, drug addicts, intent to do bodily harm, etc.)
• Limits pistol permit waiting period to 2 weeks max from application.
• Repeals a prior conflicting law (13A-11-52) which forbids carry a pistol on premises "not under your control".
• Repeals current law (13A-11-59) which forbids carrying a firearm at a "public demonstration".

This bill is sponsored by Rep. Greeson and Rep. Oden. Oden was the sponsor of the SBR/SBS that passed last session.

Next course of action is a favorable or unfavorable report from the House Judiciary Committee.

I've heard the chairman of this committee speak regarding gun bills, and he is very "pro-law enforcement". This has equated to "anti-gun" via the argument of officer safety.

Rep. Greeson is on the committee, so that's good. Rep. Ball's page says he's an NRA member. Rep. Bridges co-sponsored HB220 (which would outlaw selling body armor to private citizens in AL) so he may be anti too.

My recommendations at this point would be to contact the House Judiciary Committee members, along with your local Rep. I think this action will help get this bill moved to the next hurdle: getting on the Rules Committee Special Order Calendar.

 

[DeepSouth]

Man at a quick glance this looks like a really good one. I'll have to read the whole thing later cause I'm working on 84 hours this week. Can you say tired? Maybe they will also do something about the restrictions Sheriff's can put on a license.

 

[Bhamrichard]

Excellent bill, hope it passes. Will attempt to do my part to push the bureaucrats.

Would have responded earlier but no power and trying to help with the tornado damage cleanup in Fultondale.

 

[Monkeyleg]

Time for me to get to know my new legislators. Thanks for posting.

 

[femoralis]

That looks terrific!!!

It needs a few more things:

1) eliminate the ability of the sherriff to put conditions on the the permit (eliminate the reference to a "qualified" license).

2) Increase the length of time a permit is good for; it is currently one year, which is pointless.

 

[Kirbinator]

We looked at that, but when you change it to renew at four years, the cost quadruples...

$20 a year becomes $80 for four years
$7.50 a year becomes $30

"What?! That's too much!" Of course, because a driver's license is $20 every four years. Nevermind that they were already paying $80 for four years of pistol licensure... they just became aware of it.

Pistol licenses and permits are used as a slush fund for too many departments... $20 a year times 2,000 people = $40,000. 20,000 people is $400,000...

Can't go around cutting sources of funding in a depressed economy. Also, taking money out of law enforcement's budget is a sure-fire way to get opposition in the legislature. The State Troopers Association pays for a lobbyist too...

 

[dirt_j00]

The cost to the sheriff does not go up if changed to every two years, only the fee to the citizen.

 

[Telekinesis]

This sounds great! I've been looking forward to something like this for a long time!

I'm sorry I can't do more than a quick scan of the linked document (I'm in class...) but is there any mention of the age requirement changing? It would be great to get shall issue at 18 for places like Jefferson County where the sheriff won't issue permits to anyone under 21.

 

[dirt_j00]

The age limit is set by the sheriff's office and is not mentioned anywhere in the Code of Alabama.

I believe the sheriff gets that notion from the federal statue that forbids an FFL to sell a pistol to those under 21 [18 U.S.C. § 922(9)(b)(1)].

 

[femoralis]

Because of the silly one year limit on permits, I have to take off work once every year and drive down to the office and pay for my permit. They won't do it by mail, and they are always closed on the weekends.

It's a pointless waste of time and resources.

Is it better for them to process five $20 checks over a five year span of time, or one check for $100 every five years?

I say let people choose how long they want their permit good for. Someone could pay $20 for a 1 year permit, or $40 for a two year permit, etc.

 

[dirt_j00]

I imagine another reason for the annual renewal is so they can run another background check. The sheriff has the right under the law to revoke a permit if they have proof that you are not a "proper person to be licensed".

Putting the burden back on the citizen to renew the permit is the sheriff's trigger to check us out again. Changing this to a longer period would mean longer between checks, under the current system.

 

[femoralis]

Good point, however it's possible they don't do a background check for renewals.

At my local office, there is a sign saying that you should expect a longer wait for the first application.

 

[dirt_j00]

Also true. I can check with some contacts and report back.

To keep this thread on track, my suggestion would be to support the bill in its current form, and then try to amend the new law in a future session. I honestly don't think there will be enough committee support to pass an amendment that further "weakens" the law. A floor amendment might work though, if caught just right.

As noted by Kirbinator, having LE against it (any more than they may already be) will not help get it passed. And getting into their budgets will definitely get them stirred up.

 

[One-Time]

glad to see your state taking the worst most easily abused charge in history away from LEOs for OC

 

[41]

I just sent a e-mail to Representative Paul Demarco, chair of the Judiciary committee. I urge you all to do the same, especially my fellow Alabamians.

 

[Telekinesis]

The age limit is set by the sheriff's office and is not mentioned anywhere in the Code of Alabama.

I believe the sheriff gets that notion from the federal statue that forbids an FFL to sell a pistol to those under 21 [18 U.S.C. § 922(9)(b)(1)].

I apologize for not being more clear, but what I was meaning was "does this bill raise (or apply) an age limit?

I know that currently there is no age codified in AL law except for the min age of possession which is 18, and that several sheriffs DO issue permits to those below 21 (but obviously over 18).

My hope is that this bill does not mention age at all, or codifies 18 as the age to receive a permit. This would force sheriffs like Hale (Jeff Co) to issue permits to all adults.

I am familiar with the Jefferson County Sheriff's views about the age of issuance for permits, I was in fact stonewalled by his staff when I tried to talk with him about the possibility of making an exception to his rule. I felt like there was at least some chance as I had two other non-residents permits, but never got to speak with him.

I have heard rumors of someone suing Hale to get a permit at 19 (and winning) but I don't have any legal cites or anything. That might explain why the sheriff's office won't even accept applications by those under 21 so they don't officially deny anyone based on age alone and open themselves up to another lawsuit.

 

[dirt_j00]

I see what you are saying. To answer your question: No, this bill does not address the age issue directly. Age is not mentioned.

However, I would think that if Alabama goes "shall issue", as this bill would do, then the sheriff could not deny anyone a permit based under 18, since 18 is an allowable age under 13A-11-76 as noted in your sig. (i.e. A sheriff would have no grounds to deny an 18-21 year old upstanding citizen a permit, since denial must be tied to either federal or state statute.)

 

[Telekinesis]

Thanks, hopefully an age doesn't get added in before it passes. I know I'm going to be waiting outside his office the first day I can actually get a permit! Its crazy to be able to carry in 20+ states except for your home state merely because of the fact that you live there.

As to my sig, you have no idea how difficult it is to sell a pistol when everyone thinks its illegal for you to possess it in the first place. After having to quote the law to several people, I just put that up as my sig and started pointing to it when people confronted me about it.

 

[Ala Dan]

A "quick read" of the revision sounds good too me~!

 

[Telekinesis]

A "quick read" of the revision sounds good too me~!

I was in class at the time of my first post. When I read legal stuff, I usually get so into it that I'm dead to the world. I could spend hours working off stuff like this and comparing it to the present codes that it modifies. I just didn't want my professor to realize that I find legalease to be more interesting than her lecture

 

[Jonathon Norris]

Hey all, yes this bill was written by us over at Alabamaopencarry.com, and we put the pressure on until it was sponsored.

Come sign up and join the largest and most passionate grassroots gun rights group in Alabama!

 

[Dianosis]

Judiciary Committee Email List & Template Email For HB582

Judiciary Committee Email List & Template Email For HB582

Here is a list of every email I could find for the Judiciary Committee members both House & Senate. Also a copy of the email I sent. Feel free to use it as a template or change it to suite your needs:


To: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]

Subject: Please Support HB582 Quickly!

Message:

Members of the Judiciary Committee,

It is my understanding that HB582 is currently in before your committee. I would like to respectfully ask that you support this extremely important bill as it is written, and swiftly move it through your committee to the floor. Alabama is in desperate need of these changes, as we are way behind the curve compared to the majority of the other states. Our 2nd Amendment laws are confusing to even law enforcement and our permit system is antiquated, as Alabama is only one of a few states remaining that issue permits on a May issue basis. A system that can, and often is abused. This bill also addresses and corrects unconstitutional, unclear, laws as well as a racially motivated demonstration law that was added during the civil rights era. These tarnished relics of Alabama’s past should be removed once and for all!

Over 1300 Alabamians, myself included, have signed a petition asking for the changes proposed in this bill as it is written. The majority, over 1050 of these signatures and their comments can be viewed here: http://www.petitiononline.com/aoc/petition.html
Several Senators and Representatives have already agreed to Co-Sponsor or pledged their support of this bill once it reaches the floor. It is clear from the support that this bill is receiving that this is something Alabama has needed for a long time.

Once again, I urge you to move quickly to pass this bill as it is written. Please listen to the voice of the people and support what they are asking for.

Thank you for your time and attention on this matter.
Sincerely,

 

[41]

Any updates?

 

[wildcat_1950]

It is currently true that an Alabama resident has the right of attaining a concealed carry permit after his or her 19th birthday affording it is legal to own a concealable weapon. It is unlawful to deliver a 'pistol' to a person 18 years of age or younger. I haven't seen any other Alabama legislation pertaining to age and pistols. Unfortunately, you still have to be 21 to purchase ammunition. Not a lawyer. Just speaking from my experience.

__________________________
A .22 is a must have. Along with a .30, and a 12ga, and a .45, and a .........

 

[jimmyraythomason]

It is currently true that an Alabama resident has the right of attaining a concealed carry permit after his or her 19th birthday affording it is legal to own a concealable weapon. It is unlawful to deliver a 'pistol' to a person 18 years of age or younger.

A person may legally own a handgun and get a CCW permit at age 18 in Alabama.

CODE of AlabamaSection 13A-11-76 - Delivery to minors, habitual drunkards, etc.
No person shall deliver a pistol to any person UNDER THE AGE OF 18 or to one who he has reasonable cause to believe has been convicted of a crime of violence or is a drug addict, an habitual drunkard or of unsound mind.