All cops aren't big mean ogres that eat your civil liberties!

[MachIVshooter]

I just have one question for all the champions of LEO's here:

Do you pay more attention to a police cruiser directly behind you in traffic than another civilian vehicle, even though you're doing nothing wrong?

Anyone who says no is lying. That officer is looking for a any reason to pull you over. He/She may well be a decent human being, but they still see the rest of us as guilty until proven innocent.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

"Anyone who says no is lying. That officer is looking for a any reason to pull you over. He/She may well be a decent human being, but they still see the rest of us as guilty until proven innocent."


his job is to enforce the law and tag us when we don't. its not personal for most of them sadly most of us see it as a personal assault. plus almost no one likes getting caught screwing up. its human nature

 

[GCO]

cassandrasdaddy argued incoherently...
maybe i'm confused but didn't sb63 fail? and didn't jeff ask if there was a law against providing cwp names to the database? and didn't you then show ther 2 links in an apparent effort to show that it was illegal? if so your links failed unless i missed something.

Yes, you're confused.

 

[Officers'Wife]

Hi ilbob

I don't recall any US or state court has ever stated those rules apply to US LE agencies. And in fact, they have often ruled that "acting in good faith" is adequate. Generally, having your boss tell you to do it, or allowing you to do it, seems to be adequate for the "good faith" part.

I see, then unlike military personnell LEO following illegal orders under color of law are within the law... In short, LEO's need to be taken with a bit of distrust as well as the legislature that pass the laws.

Thank you.

Selena

 

[MASTEROFMALICE]

Let's not forget to mention how sadistic all cops are.

I, personally, laugh while kicking children. I encourage other officers to do the same when they aren't out trying to inch this great country towards the socialist haven we all know it should be.

 

[bsf]

I, personally, laugh while kicking children.

It is about time someone taught those little urchins respect.

 

[Clipper]

So you chose a handle calling yourself MASTEROFMALICE, but you're so insulted at being painted by that brush...

 

[Old Dog]

Right on time, the usual weekend us-vs.-them thread.

Original poster opines, "Cops aren't all bad," followed by numerous posters claiming, "Yes, they are; cops are not our friends."

Or Variant 1A: "Cops are the evil cog in the government machine, trampling our rights and anxiously standing by to take our guns," soon followed up with, "Hey, my brother's friend was a pretty nice guy, he was a cop and this one time, he actually spoke courteously to a citizen with a CPL; see, cops aren't all bad."

And the sun will come up, tomorrow ...

 

[Koos Custodiet]

Original poster opines, "Cops aren't all bad," followed by numerous posters claiming, "Yes, they are; cops are not our friends."

99% of cops are good guys. Even here in South Africa, where they do thing which would have (had) the good people of the US of A throwing tea into a harbour (oops, harbor) or something.

But can you take the chance on that 1%? Especially since the 99% good guys are less likely to try to enter your home without a warrant, and the 1% is more likely to, and you have nothing to gain and everything to lose?

You can run this through game theory or (un?)common sense but just like we treat unloaded guns like they're (potentially?) loaded I would wager to suggest that we treat unverified cops like they're (potentially) bad.

(Yes I love my brackets (I also love LISP (Spot the reference)))

 

[MachIVshooter]

his job is to enforce the law and tag us when we don't. its not personal for most of them sadly most of us see it as a personal assault. plus almost no one likes getting caught screwing up. its human nature

You missed my point. The only people who's pulse rate doesn't increase at least slightly when a black and white rolls up behind them are those with equal or greater authority.

My vehicles are 100% mechanically sound, glass is free of defects, exterior lights are checked daily and I have nothing hanging in my FOV or stickers that might suggest I engage in illegal activities. Yet I still cringe when that ominious Crown Vic profile appears in my rearview or on the horizon.

I've known many, many very decent LEO's. But they still view average citizens as subordinates.

 

[MIL-DOT]

you know, i could see that Stubbicat had really stepped in it,and was about to get lambasted, but for all his paranoid venting, he made a couple very valid points. first off, lemme say that i don't think all cops are a$$holes, i've been freinds with some cool ones,too,but it does seem that a disproportionate number of a$$holes tend to gravitate towards law enforcement. Also,the militarization of the police seriously worries me as well. The founding fathers were very much afraid of a standing army, and with good reason. Now, with the advent of SWAT teams, at almost a moments notice a highly trained,very well armed paramilitary unit can be surrounding your home, eavesdropping on every word, scanning you with thermo-imaging, and at a mere nod from someone, able to efficiently "dispatch" everyone on the property. Or maybe i've been watching too much TV. but seriously....

 

[Werewolf]

But can you take the chance on that 1%?

Ding - Ding - Ding! We HAVE a WINNER!

If we could rest easily knowing that the other 99% would step up and condemn the 1% of course we could take a chance on the 1%.

But then that if is a might big IF...

Yes indeed...

Mighty BIG!

 

[MASTEROFMALICE]

Actually, MASTEROFMALICE, is an e-mail address I've had since I was a Marine. I also have the yahoo screen name UNDYINGPATRIOT. There, does that make you feel better, Clipper?

So you chose a handle calling yourself MASTEROFMALICE, but you're so insulted at being painted by that brush...

 

[ilbob]

I see, then unlike military personnell LEO following illegal orders under color of law are within the law... In short, LEO's need to be taken with a bit of distrust as well as the legislature that pass the laws.

Its not quite that simple, but the courts and the legislatures have made things so convoluted that the average citizen (maybe even the average lawyer) does not have much of a chance of being treated in a fair way by police under any circumstance. It is just too random on what a court will rule 2 or 3 years from now, if you can afford to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to litigate it, and spend most of that time in jail waiting for a fair hearing. Most of the time you will get a court that just plain will not rule against the government no matter how egregious its abuse of power is.

In many cases, LE agency actions are defended to the last nickle of the taxpayers money, while the person on the other side has very limited resources.

 

[ilbob]

Original poster opines, "Cops aren't all bad," followed by numerous posters claiming, "Yes, they are; cops are not our friends."

Even cops that are not bad are generally not your friend in an official encounter. Why is that so hard for you to understand? They are not there to do anything friendly with you. That does not make them the enemy.

You seem to be of a mind that cops can only be a friend or an enemy. It is not that simple. I don't consider being issued a well earned traffic citation to be the act of an enemy. But it is not the act of a friend either.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

"Actually, MASTEROFMALICE, is an e-mail address I've had since I was a Marine. I also have the yahoo screen name UNDYINGPATRIOT"



plus all the really cool names were taken huh

 

[MASTEROFMALICE]

My first 50 or so choices were taken.

The Master moniker has grown on me though. I figure, I had to have mastered SOMETHING, and I'm about as good as anyone else at being mean and hateful. So........there ya have it.

 

[HungSquirrel]

Chipping in with my dos centavos, I had two excellent LEO encounters in my store today.

I had a customer sell me merchandise, and when doing so I am required to ask for a photo ID in case the merchandise turns out to have been stolen. The customer handed me his sheriff's department photo ID. I commented that it looked very similar to my pistol permit (as permits are issued by the sheriff here). He asked me what I carried, and I described the pistols I generally carry. I then complained that my corporate massah's don't let me carry at work. He said as long as it's concealed, they can't do anything. I corrected him and told him about the following Alabama statute:

Section 13A-11-52

Except as otherwise provided in this article, no person shall carry a pistol about his person on premises not his own or under his control.

He then said he wouldn't dream of charging someone for violating that section. I was amazed that an officer would openly admit not wanting to enforce a law, particularly one related to firearms! He then told me he was glad I carry, and wished "all" law-abiding citizens would do so!

As if that weren't enough, a uniformed officer came in later in the afternoon and commented about "robbery season" (the Christmas holidays). There have been a string of burglaries in the area, including a holdup at a convenience store where the perp used a shotgun (so much for the notion that banning handguns will stop crime). I again complained that I am not allowed to carry at work. The officer then told me he has a part time job and his other employer doesn't permit carry; he carries anyway, and doesn't care what the law has to say on the matter. I told him about the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004, and he had no idea LEOs are given more carry leeway nationwide now. He also said that while being a LEO is dangerous work, there's no way in hell he would work a retail job during the holidays, when burglaries are rampant and no one is allowed to carry while at work.

In summary, two pleasant RKBA encounters with LEOs insofar as their attitudes toward carry. Two LEOs willing to bend or break unjust laws to protect themselves. Also, two LEOs who knew very little about firearm law to begin with!

 

[Tokugawa]

The problem is that the authority vested in police means that a certain subset of people will chose that career because of the prospect of being a legalized bully. And it takes very few bad apples. And once they are "in", they are hard to discard. To illustrate, look into how far the former police chief of Tacoma Wa. rose before he blew out the brains of his wife and himself IN FRONT OF HIS KIDS.

 

[mcooper]

Yeah, there are good LEO's out there; in fact there are alot of good leo's.

Most people don't care about the positive stories though.

 

[ilbob]

Yeah, there are good LEO's out there; in fact there are alot of good leo's.

Most people don't care about the positive stories though.

do we care much about the positive stories about plumbers, lawyers, doctors, and electricians either?

people who engage in a particular occupation are supposed to be competent at that occupation. those who are not make for good copy.

 

[Elza]

The real problem, IMHO of course, are the good cops that turn a blind eye to the bad ones. Personally this does more to tarnish the image of LEOs than the activities of the bad ones. People feel that they have no where to turn if they have a bad encounter with a cop. And, they pretty well don’t in this day and age.

 

[sterling180]

Policemen or women,are human beings and are like us,but unlike us they have an official badge,a service weapon,etc and are always on duty,even though they might not be working.Now even in my country,you get pro and anti-gun cops and they also have their own shooting club,which is a 'closed shop',to anyone,other than cops,both retired and serving.

In order to make gun ownership harder,because they don't like them,Police departments in the UK have recruited anti-gunners for jobs that would otherwise,suit pro-gun or ex-military types.These include,Armed Response/Tactical Firearms,Flying Squad or Robbery Squad or those qualified to use firearms,in CID departments.CID,means Criminal Investigation Department and are regular and non-specialist detectives.

So over here,If a cop is a member of the police gun club,they might not be considered for a firearms-related job such as,being in charge of a licensing department or specialist firearms units.This reason is that,if they are a member of the UK NRA,then it can be seen as corruption,between them and the firearm owner or that they can be too 'trigger-happy' and 'Rambo-like'.

This is why you can get anti-gunners,who serve on firearms licensing departments and on firearm boards.

But again,there's always corruption and 'hand shakes' and so it was suspected that Thomas Hamilton,got away with his offenses,before Dunblane,because he was a Free Mason and alot of them,over here are Free Masons,as are Judges,Barristers and Lawyers and even Doctors.A perfect combination,for a bad license holder,to retain their license,on a hand shake.

 

[Werewolf]

Yeah, there are good LEO's out there; in fact there are alot of good leo's.

Most people don't care about the positive stories though.

Rather most people just don't tell 'em.

I grew up in the 50's. Was taught that the police were our friend. As time marched by and especially in the last 10 years I have grown to seriously doubt that the police are our friend.

I, for one, would welcome hearing stories about good cops. Who knows - I, along with others, just might become a little less jaded.

 

[ilbob]

Yeah, there are good LEO's out there; in fact there are alot of good leo's.

Most people don't care about the positive stories though.

Rather most people just don't tell 'em.

I grew up in the 50's. Was taught that the police were our friend. As time marched by and especially in the last 10 years I have grown to seriously doubt that the police are our friend.

I, for one, would welcome hearing stories about good cops. Who knows - I, along with others, just might become a little less jaded.

There is almost never anything "good" that comes from official interaction with LEOs. Its not surprising that there are few good stories to spread around.

Now and then I see an article in the paper about a cop saving somebody from a fire or something.

A few weeks ago a couple of cops in Rockford shot and killed the 80 YO victim of an armed robbery. Supposedly the guy had a rifle and was attempting to defend himself from one of the robbers when police came upon the scene. Another witness present stated the old guy did not have his hearing aids on so could not have heard the cops tell him to drop the rifle, if they actually did so. The police chief declared he was "proud" of his officers for it. He actually used the word "proud". It seems more to me like a tragic mistake at best, nothing to be proud of.

Then the police department spent the next few weeks assassinating the character of the dead guy by dredging up some minor gambling convictions.