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Aren't (most of) you glad to live in the US??

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by trooper, Dec 11, 2003.

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  1. trooper

    trooper Member

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    Hi guys,

    here's an outrageous story from my home country that truly stunned me. I still can hardly believe it.

    The full account is here, but since most of you don't understand German I've tried to translate the most important parts.

    It happened on a shooting range near Munich on the 29th November. Regular training had not started yet and a couple members were sitting around in the club house.

    A couple police officers entered and asked where the lanes and the emergency exit were. When the members asked what this was all about they were just told to sit down and wait, explanations would be given later.

    Meanwhile a SWAT team in full gear had covered the stairs and all exits. A K9 unit and some riot cops arrived and proceeded to search the whole facility and the shooters' cars.

    A newbie who wanted to check out the shooting club this evening was stopped by the police on the driveway and was asked where he was going and what he was doing here. He was so scared that he immediately turned around and drove away again.

    All weapons and firearms permits were checked and one shooter who forgot his permit at home almost got into deep trouble.

    In the end the police seized a couple cans, a bag of balloons and a big picture of a human silhouette as evidence (anything that is considered combat shooting is illegal for civilians unless you're a CCW holder).

    The whole operation took one hour. Nobody bothered to explain the reason; the only comment was, "This is just a routine check, you should expect more of it on other ranges in the future."

    The club's lawyer has already taken legal steps to let the search being declared unlawful and unconstitutional by a court in order to prohibit further harassment by the local authorities.

    While I have little doubt that it will rule in the shooters' favour it does bother me to think that such things are possible here...



    Regards,

    Trooper
     
  2. cordex

    cordex Member

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    Wow, trooper, that's scary.
    Is shooting at balloons and cans considered "combat shooting" by the Polizei?

    Don't think it couldn't happen here.
     
  3. Mark Tyson

    Mark Tyson Member

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    Shooting cans and balloons is illegal? What are you supposed to shoot at - bullseyes only? That's scary. With criminals smuggling weapons in from Eastern Europe you'd think they'd concentrate their efforts elsewhere. I guess they've been coming down pretty hard since that gun club member shot up the school in Erfurt.
     
  4. bfason

    bfason Member

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    This took place in Bavaria of all places, one of the most conservative states in Germany. It would have been easy to imagine this raid taking place in, say, Hesse, where the political left predominates. This is not a good sign.
     
  5. Nathanael_Greene

    Nathanael_Greene Member

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    Truly amazing.

    And to answer your question, yes, I am very glad I live in the United States.
     
  6. trooper

    trooper Member

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    Good question... I have no idea why it should be... :confused:

    The club is IPSC only, and this stuff is often viewed with suspicion by the authorities over here. Lots of people (including more than a few shooters) differentiate between "good" olympic-style, static smallbore/BB bullseye shooting and "bad" large-bore, dynamic action disciplines.

    But the bright side is growing and eventually we'll be too many... :) :)



    Regards,

    Trooper
     
  7. trooper

    trooper Member

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    You nailed it. I'm now competing with MicroBalrog for the title of "Gun Nut Hell Occupant"...

    Um, shooting cans and balloons is not illegal (unlike shooting at pictures of humans), but apparently it made the apparatchik a bit suspicious.
     
  8. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Achtung, peasant! Sounds like some parts of the U.S. Can't shoot at humanoid target in Massachusetts either.

    Of course, after the Supreme Court decision yesterday, we'll be catching up fairly soon.:uhoh:
     
  9. TarpleyG

    TarpleyG Member

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    "Your papers, please!"

    GT
     
  10. trooper

    trooper Member

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    You know, we kinda worked around this one... we put up a human target that held bright red apples in both his hands and on his head (á la Wilhelm Tell, for those who know) and awarded points for apple hits only.

    Sadly, we all proved to be pretty bad shots and accidently hit COM most of the time :eek: :eek:


    Regards,

    Trooper
     
  11. Bill Hook

    Bill Hook member

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    The ghosts of Himmler and Heydrich still lurk.

    I'm not expecting much from a country that bans "Mein Kampf," since they obviously don't understand irony; banning ideas of any sort is wrong and it certainly hasn't kept German kids from becoming skinheads.
     
  12. trooper

    trooper Member

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    No, it is not. And it shows that ALL political parties (except one, to some extent) are after our guns, no matter if they're left, right or whatever.

    The only difference is that the left tends to say "It's immoral and childish to own such evil machines of destruction", while the right says, "It's dangerous to own guns."

    BTW Hesse is conservative now, maybe you confused it with Northrhine-Westfalia.


    Regards,

    Trooper
     
  13. RobW

    RobW Member

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    It's rather "Your papers, immediatly!"

    I disagree with Pat Buchanan, we won't be there in 50 years, but in 20.
     
  14. Gordon Fink

    Gordon Fink Member

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    Criminals are sneaky and hard to find. Law-abiding subjects are much easier to harass.

    ~G. Fink
     
  15. bfason

    bfason Member

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    When I was there in the 1980s Hesse was a stronghold of the Greens and Social Democrats. How times change.....
     
  16. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Member

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    Yes, I am!
     
  17. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    Yes, I am very glad to live in the USA.

    I am especially glad to live in one of the most free of those States.


    But our federal govt (and some of the States) has (have) gone totally berserk.

    We will either cease to be united or we will be a totalitarian regime within a few years.
     
  18. hops

    hops Member

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    Interesting, especially the last sentence- seems at least one Police Officer in a phone call to a shooting club member, indicated that the Police officers present did not want to participate, but were ordered to by an over zealous Herr Templer.

    Oh well, I can see the paranoia in Muenchen - After all the beer hall putsch started there about 80 years ago.
     
  19. RobW

    RobW Member

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    It's sad. Once, Bavaria was a "liberal" state where you could buy black-powder frontstuffers and cap 'n' ball revolvers without restriction. All gone! The reason as anywhere in the world:

    The politicos want to have defensless sheep they can abuse.

    Make someone totally dependent on you, and you have UNLIMITED POWER!

    Hitler knew it, Stalin knew it, Pol Pot knew it, Saddam Hussein knew it, Ferdinand Marcos knew it, Pinochet knew it, Clinton knew it... and Bush is going the same path.
     
  20. chaim

    chaim Member

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    As an American I pretty much agree. Banning any ideas, no matter how wrong and ugly, is wrong. But from a European mindset it makes perfect sense (no offense to the, mostly atypical, Europeans on this board who probably think more like Americans).

    On guns, and other left wing things, I live in a state (MD) that is becoming more and more European all the time:(
     
  21. Ryder

    Ryder Member

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    Don't need a government law against such things here. Anybody and everybody makes up their own rules to control others at their whim.

    My gun club has a lot of strange rules which are not against any law. One of those happens to be no shooting at anything except paper. There are enough other rules there to rule out any form of combat training. Mag limits, slow aimed fire, firing line distances.

    I guess I don't see the difference other than the hazard of arrest.
     
  22. goon

    goon Member

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    The only real reason that the US still hasn't given into this kind of BS is because we started as a nation of free people rather than a nation of peasants.
    We wanted our freedom and we made the price so high for the British that they lost interest.
    We have over 200 years of that mentality flowing through our veins, but it dwindles a little more every year.
    Once we lose that attitude, we are screwed too.
    But so long as just a handful of people hold out...
     
  23. BowStreetRunner

    BowStreetRunner Member

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    im pretty glad i live in the US
    despite all the problems (erosion of the constituion) its still the best and i love it, so im going to to stay and try and help it stay free
    BSR
     
  24. Moparmike

    Moparmike Member

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    Tarpley said:
    No no, its "Sie papieren, bitte."

    Someone else said "papers immedeatly!" which is (i think): "Sie papieren, mach schnell!!!" or something.
     
  25. Oleg Volk

    Oleg Volk Moderator Emeritus

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    [​IMG] "Predjavi dokumenti, blya!"
     
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