ALL prior service were trained to use full auto m16's with high cap magazines

[12Bravo20]

Everyone's experiences are different as are the differences in how units/branches train. People are right in saying that not all military personnel or all police are proficient with their assigned weapons.

I spent all but the last year in the Army assigned to combat engineer units. The units I was assigned to were either forward deployed (overseas) or rapid deploy units stateside. It didn't matter if I was in a line company as an engineer or headquarters as a machinist, we went to the range on a regular basis and qualified minimum of 2 times a year. I was assigned everything from the 1911A1, M9, M3A1, M16A1/A2, M60 and Ma Deuce.

 

[Hurryin' Hoosier]

I bought a brown paper grocery sack half full of GI issue 30 round M-16 mags for $15 bucks 5 years ago at a garage sale.
About $.75 cents a mag!

They still had Ft. Bragg red clay dust in them!

The garage sale guy was a just retired Army officer who had just moved to town.


It could be a new cottage industry for returning GI's I betcha!

Wonder what they are going to do about that??

rc

And did this retired officer offer any explanation as to just how he had acquired property book items?

 

[hueytaxi]

Seeing the post on qualifying with the 5.56 ink pen, reminded me when I got to RVN with the 1st Cav, I was issued a temp .45 until I got assigned to my unit. 2 days of incountry orientation included "must qualify" with the .45. I never had ammunition until I got to the range where I was issued 12 rounds. I had to ask for a magazine. That Colt was such a mix and match of parts it would rattle in the holster. In the first 6 rounds I never hit the paper target and only saw where two rounds impacted. When the range officer had us retrieve our targets in round one, I placed 3 holes close to center, two off to the left high, stated I missed on my first shot and handed back the other 6 rounds. I had qualified on the first round. The only other weapon I qualified with was the M-14A1 even thought over the next 5 years I fired everything I could and even the M101 105, the 155 towed and the articulated mini-gun on a Kiowa. Darn mini-gun woulod almost turn the lightweight helicopter sideways momentarily.

 

[GAF]

My Air Force basic training (1974) included a few hours of classroom instruction on an AR 15. The next day I got to shoot 75 rounds and a half silhouette at 100 yards. After that I never handled a gun for the Air Force again.

 

[Romeo 33 Delta]

M-14s at Ft Knox (mine did have a selector, but I never used it in FA) and M-16s in combat in '68. I still love the M-14 and have a dead stock "military" (pre-ban) M1A and it's my pet rifle. I do have Ar15s and an AR-18 as well, but they're by alternate pets.

 

[Fryerpower]

Wait, what was this thread about?

People are right in saying that not all military personnel or all police are proficient with their assigned weapons.

My weapon was a nuclear reactor and I was VERY proficient at operating it!

I would put myself at safe to operate and deadly to non moving targets within 30 yards with my handguns.

I need to work toward IDPA proficient.

I guess the point of this whole thread is that just because you wear or wore a uniform does not mean you are better prepared to use your weapon. It is all about realistic practice. Practice that can be achieved at the government's expense or your own.

Jim

 

[Insp Evans]

I was in Army ROTC for four years in college plus two years active duty. At college, we started out with M1s (loved those), then we went to M14s (easier on the right thumb), and finally, M16s on active duty. I qualified on all three plus would have gotten an expert badge for the M60 machine gun but it wasn't for qualification, so no official record.

I was in the Signal Corps but qualified every year. When I was in Korea, I bugged the company commander to let me go to an infantry unit and qualify on the fllamethrower, but he nixed the idea. Kind of an unusual qualification bar to add below the rifle and pistol bars!

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

My weapon was a nuclear reactor and I was VERY proficient at operating it!

I would put myself at safe to operate and deadly to non moving targets within 30 yards with my handguns.

I need to work toward IDPA proficient.

I guess the point of this whole thread is that just because you wear or wore a uniform does not mean you are better prepared to use your weapon. It is all about realistic practice. Practice that can be achieved at the government's expense or your own.

Jim

You know, you could probably write your own six factor formula for the bullet lifecycle...

The number of bullets produced per shooting event

The probability that a bullet gets absorbed by the target while slowing down

The fraction of bullets that are absorbed by non-targets

...

 

[Fryerpower]

I can still almost draw and label the whole thing. I still remember the mnemonic. It's been 12 years since I got out...

Jim

 

[ironworkerwill]

<Field Artillery THE KING of BATTLE! M16A1, grenades most types, M18(claymore), AT4(antitank rpg),Issued-M60, M203 (grenade launcher attached to M16A1),and M2( maw deuce, 50cal, .50 BMG). M.O.S. 35M (Fire Finder Radar repair) attached to field artillery.

 

[johnc486]

I can't begin to count the rounds I shot in Viet Nam 2 yrs (ON FULL AUTO), M60, 50 Cal, M14 & M16. I think (as others) we have done our fair share of training and qualifying to own said weapons. I understand the percentage (10%) going down, we Nam, Korean and WWII vets are leaving this world in vast numbers daily, young Vets carry on for us.

 

[Zardaia]

Thing is alot of the new generation gets very little training even in the mil for non combat jobs. I got a bumch of diff quals + annual re-qual on m4/m9 but that was my arming group/job. AF most folks only qual m16 (semi, don't think the basic course of fire even goes burst let alone FA) in basic then right before deployment, no recurring. Believe me i've seen base pop do some scary/dumb stuff down range with there A2's that they hardley know how to use.

 

[Ehtereon11B]

I always laugh when anyone assumes that training courses are the same throughout the military. There was an Air Force tech guy stationed with us in OEF. His duty was to keep our main line communications open, the stuff regular line infantry weren't trained on. He claimed that he went through the exact same weapons course that I did before being stationed with us. I asked him how long it was, he said 3 days. Basic Rifle Marksmenship/Advanced Rifle Marksmenship take up AT LEAST 4 weeks at BCT and AIT. I asked what weapons he used, he said just the M16A2. Our course was M9, 249, 240, M2, Mk19 and M4. I asked him if he ever shot at moving targets or from a vehicle. He said no. Long story short all he did was take a basic rifle qual of 30 rounds and 3 shooting stances. He only qualified Marksman when everyone in our Battalion has to be Sharpshooter or better, otherwise get transferred. But he considered himself an equal.

 

[76shuvlinoff]

I have been raising hell in local blogs about gun control incrementalism. Surprisingly much of the support for banning the AR from civilian hands comes from people claiming to be retired military and they really come off arrogant about it.

 

[USAF_Vet]

I always laugh when anyone assumes that training courses are the same throughout the military. There was an Air Force tech guy stationed with us in OEF. His duty was to keep our main line communications open, the stuff regular line infantry weren't trained on. He claimed that he went through the exact same weapons course that I did before being stationed with us. I asked him how long it was, he said 3 days. Basic Rifle Marksmenship/Advanced Rifle Marksmenship take up AT LEAST 4 weeks at BCT and AIT. I asked what weapons he used, he said just the M16A2. Our course was M9, 249, 240, M2, Mk19 and M4. I asked him if he ever shot at moving targets or from a vehicle. He said no. Long story short all he did was take a basic rifle qual of 30 rounds and 3 shooting stances. He only qualified Marksman when everyone in our Battalion has to be Sharpshooter or better, otherwise get transferred. But he considered himself an equal.

Some people want to be treated as an equal. I've been there. I was an AF SSgt deployed with an Army Logistics unit on my 3rd OIF tour (ILO). I was trained on M16A2, M4, M9, M2 and M249. I had more rounds downrange than a lot of the soldiers I was with, and more experience outside the wire in general. These were not your standard 11B, troopers, but they sure acted like it, and not in a good way.

Did it matter I was an NCO? Did it matter I was on my 3rd combat tour in Iraq? Did it matter I was just as qualified as the next guy? No. I wore a different uniform, that's all most of them saw. I didn't let it bother me, though.

The Tech you had assigned to you probably wasn't used to being an outsider, had substantially more training than some of his peers, he may have simply not understood the level of training the typical 11B goes through. He probably just wanted to be accepted as an equal, knowing he wasn't, and didn't know how to handle it.

Personally, I drank smuggled Jack Daniels with the Sergeant Major. I'm sure that didn't help my standing with the grunts.