Palladan44
Member
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2020
- Messages
- 1,903
Unfortunately, many average Americans perception of real world shootings are shaped by theatrical portrayals. (No inference to the perceptions of any THR members, so lets not go there please!) Many THR members have unfortunately been involved in real world shootings. Lets leave that stuff out of here.
We can probably agree that most scenes in movies/Tv shows are packed with flaws as experienced LEOs. Military Veterans, Hunters, and "gun guys" can easily recognize. Revolvers that have 13 rounds in them, bolt rifles that are magically semi- auto, the one shot instant stop and fall over and die that we all know is pretty unrealistic. One handed handgun use with rifle-like accuracy. Bright red blood the color of red paint etc. etc. Etc. Etc.
However, i have seen some pretty darn realistic scenes. These are the ones that i dont laugh at (like ones posted above) these rather give me the chills. Ill describe one of these such scenes below:
AMC-"Breaking Bad" TV show- DEA agent Hank Schrader gets involved in a shootout with Mexican cartel kingpin Tuco Salamonca. There are many reasons i think this scene is chillingly realistic, right down to the way the weapons were used, the probable mentality and training of each party, the state of mind and physical state each party was in, when the first and last shots were fired and how it ended. All very realistic, and a bit of luck played out for agent Schrader for the fact that he did not get hit with Tucos spray of 30 rounds of full Auto M16 fire.
Agent Schrader armed with a Glock 22, 40 s&w. and at least 1 spare mag, in holster under concealment approached Tuco, who was high on meth and injured from a prior GSW to the abdomen. Tuco was leaning against an automobile, where 3-4 feet away on the carseat was an M16 type full auto carbine, which was loaded and ready to go with 30 round magazine locked. (LEOs pulling up to scenes not knowing who/what theyre dealing with, when that persons plan is to kill you from the start, happens to LE all the time)
From about 8-10 yards away, Shrader questions Tuco as he exited his vehicle, with Shraders door open. Tuco doesnt like it, and shows some "pre attack" indicators including looking inside the car at the gun(which Shrader doesnt know its there) and cracking his neck. Schrader takes note to the subtle "pre attack" indicators and gets more in a defensive and alert pose, that shows his training as an officer. Agent Shrader taking note to these pre attack indicators probably saved his life, because Tuco quickly lunged for the M16 through the open window of the car, and gets it in a both hands, buttstock "under the armpit" grip in about 1.5 seconds.
Before Tuco is able to swing the barrel in Agent Shraders direction, Shrader was able to draw from concealment and get about 2 shots off (no hits)before Tuco opens up with a spray of M16. Shrader able to draw so quickly, and get shots in Tucos direction im sure got Tuco moving, off balance and made Tuco spray from the hip. Tuco made no deliberate shots, just sprayed from the hip, showing his lack of training, lack of marksmanship skills and just held the trigger down spraying. I found the accuracy and lack of hits to intended target very realistic given everything into account, including Tucos lack of training, and "spray and pray" gangster style shooting.
Shrader, dropped to the ground and rolled (as much as he could) under the vehicle into prone position after the initial shots fired, and Tuco continued spraying with M16. Shrader was able to commence some counter ambush suppression fire, which was also very very critical. He took cover/concealment using vehicle and decreased his effective target size by going prone.. some of this is instinct, but definitely training involved here. When being continuously fired upon at close range, when youre out gunned, and if youre exposed (not completely behind hard cover) then suppression fire is key. Point and shoot in their direction and get shots their way even if youre not able to lift your face off the ground, because its probably the only way you can buy yourself another second in the fight. Agent Shrader did just that, and that also probably saved his life, if this were real. He didnt give attacker even a 1/8 of second to get the sights dropped on him. Very critical.
The fight ends shortly after Tuco fires his 30 rounds (the 30 rounds in the show seems a little optimistic, but very close) and Shrader needs to reload also. I find it realistic when both parties run out of their first magazine at about the same time, as from my experiences 30 rounds from an m16, when shot in about 3-4 bursts is about the same amount of time as 15 rounds from a 40 caliber Glock would be.
(Unfortunately, a few more than 15+1 were fired from the first magazine, which is an error, oops!!)
Tuco then moves around to the other side of his car to reload, which he has a little bit of difficulty with, and takes about 6 or 7 seconds to accomplish. (Lack of training, already injured, and intoxication) During this period, Agent Shrader is able to combat reload quicker, get up to the the crux of the cardoor and take a more accurate "bead" on the direction of the attacker, who is still fumbling with reloading his M16 behind the car (This displays Agent Shraders training, and clear will to win this fight) Tuco finishes reloading. As soon as Tuco pops up for another probable round of spray and pray fire, Agent Shrader makes an effective head shot to end the fight, because he was ready first, and had his sights dropped on him. This was also his only option, as Tuco would have began firing again in another .5 seconds, and probably would have not given Shrader any bigger of a target than his head in that position.
This scene to me was very "idealistic" for agent Shrader and equally realistic at the same time.
Given all of the factors, this one rates the highest of "movie" shooting scenes, for me anyways. Knowing that fellow officers, Agents, military personnel and citizens have been ambushed in situations just like this countless times reminds me why we carry high capacity service pistols and train our asses off.
***Real side note***
2 officers in my community were injured last week when ambushed by gunfire from a suspect whos car broke down on the freeway. He was a wanted felon, and his plan was to ambush the Police when they arrived so he could continue to flee. Lets wish them a speedy recovery!!!!!!
We can probably agree that most scenes in movies/Tv shows are packed with flaws as experienced LEOs. Military Veterans, Hunters, and "gun guys" can easily recognize. Revolvers that have 13 rounds in them, bolt rifles that are magically semi- auto, the one shot instant stop and fall over and die that we all know is pretty unrealistic. One handed handgun use with rifle-like accuracy. Bright red blood the color of red paint etc. etc. Etc. Etc.
However, i have seen some pretty darn realistic scenes. These are the ones that i dont laugh at (like ones posted above) these rather give me the chills. Ill describe one of these such scenes below:
AMC-"Breaking Bad" TV show- DEA agent Hank Schrader gets involved in a shootout with Mexican cartel kingpin Tuco Salamonca. There are many reasons i think this scene is chillingly realistic, right down to the way the weapons were used, the probable mentality and training of each party, the state of mind and physical state each party was in, when the first and last shots were fired and how it ended. All very realistic, and a bit of luck played out for agent Schrader for the fact that he did not get hit with Tucos spray of 30 rounds of full Auto M16 fire.
Agent Schrader armed with a Glock 22, 40 s&w. and at least 1 spare mag, in holster under concealment approached Tuco, who was high on meth and injured from a prior GSW to the abdomen. Tuco was leaning against an automobile, where 3-4 feet away on the carseat was an M16 type full auto carbine, which was loaded and ready to go with 30 round magazine locked. (LEOs pulling up to scenes not knowing who/what theyre dealing with, when that persons plan is to kill you from the start, happens to LE all the time)
From about 8-10 yards away, Shrader questions Tuco as he exited his vehicle, with Shraders door open. Tuco doesnt like it, and shows some "pre attack" indicators including looking inside the car at the gun(which Shrader doesnt know its there) and cracking his neck. Schrader takes note to the subtle "pre attack" indicators and gets more in a defensive and alert pose, that shows his training as an officer. Agent Shrader taking note to these pre attack indicators probably saved his life, because Tuco quickly lunged for the M16 through the open window of the car, and gets it in a both hands, buttstock "under the armpit" grip in about 1.5 seconds.
Before Tuco is able to swing the barrel in Agent Shraders direction, Shrader was able to draw from concealment and get about 2 shots off (no hits)before Tuco opens up with a spray of M16. Shrader able to draw so quickly, and get shots in Tucos direction im sure got Tuco moving, off balance and made Tuco spray from the hip. Tuco made no deliberate shots, just sprayed from the hip, showing his lack of training, lack of marksmanship skills and just held the trigger down spraying. I found the accuracy and lack of hits to intended target very realistic given everything into account, including Tucos lack of training, and "spray and pray" gangster style shooting.
Shrader, dropped to the ground and rolled (as much as he could) under the vehicle into prone position after the initial shots fired, and Tuco continued spraying with M16. Shrader was able to commence some counter ambush suppression fire, which was also very very critical. He took cover/concealment using vehicle and decreased his effective target size by going prone.. some of this is instinct, but definitely training involved here. When being continuously fired upon at close range, when youre out gunned, and if youre exposed (not completely behind hard cover) then suppression fire is key. Point and shoot in their direction and get shots their way even if youre not able to lift your face off the ground, because its probably the only way you can buy yourself another second in the fight. Agent Shrader did just that, and that also probably saved his life, if this were real. He didnt give attacker even a 1/8 of second to get the sights dropped on him. Very critical.
The fight ends shortly after Tuco fires his 30 rounds (the 30 rounds in the show seems a little optimistic, but very close) and Shrader needs to reload also. I find it realistic when both parties run out of their first magazine at about the same time, as from my experiences 30 rounds from an m16, when shot in about 3-4 bursts is about the same amount of time as 15 rounds from a 40 caliber Glock would be.
(Unfortunately, a few more than 15+1 were fired from the first magazine, which is an error, oops!!)
Tuco then moves around to the other side of his car to reload, which he has a little bit of difficulty with, and takes about 6 or 7 seconds to accomplish. (Lack of training, already injured, and intoxication) During this period, Agent Shrader is able to combat reload quicker, get up to the the crux of the cardoor and take a more accurate "bead" on the direction of the attacker, who is still fumbling with reloading his M16 behind the car (This displays Agent Shraders training, and clear will to win this fight) Tuco finishes reloading. As soon as Tuco pops up for another probable round of spray and pray fire, Agent Shrader makes an effective head shot to end the fight, because he was ready first, and had his sights dropped on him. This was also his only option, as Tuco would have began firing again in another .5 seconds, and probably would have not given Shrader any bigger of a target than his head in that position.
This scene to me was very "idealistic" for agent Shrader and equally realistic at the same time.
Given all of the factors, this one rates the highest of "movie" shooting scenes, for me anyways. Knowing that fellow officers, Agents, military personnel and citizens have been ambushed in situations just like this countless times reminds me why we carry high capacity service pistols and train our asses off.
***Real side note***
2 officers in my community were injured last week when ambushed by gunfire from a suspect whos car broke down on the freeway. He was a wanted felon, and his plan was to ambush the Police when they arrived so he could continue to flee. Lets wish them a speedy recovery!!!!!!
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