Alternative cleaning methods?

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valnar

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I hate cleaning my guns after shooting them. REALLY hate it. I always think I miss something, forgot crud underneath some crevice, or forget to oil something I should have, etc. I'm always looking for the next whiz-bang product to make it easier (like Weapon Shield, Gunscrubber aerosol, etc). But still after all that, it's still a manual process.

So reading around, I discovered two things. Some people use VERY hot water in addition to scrubbing and lube...... and the second method is an ultrasonic cleaner. This one has my curiosity piqued.

How are ultrasonic cleaners for pistols? Anyone use them as a regular cleaning regiment?
 
Some may think I'm nuts, but I give my handguns a bath in diesel in a small plastic tub. It's simply the best way to clean a gun I've found. It's a very light weight oil and a terrific solvent, non concoctions to mix and quite safe.

Never used an ultra-sonic cleaner however.
 
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Ed's Red works wonders.

I've also used an industrial parts washer out in the garage. Put everything in a wire basket and let it run overnight.
 
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First and foremost, there's no reason to clean your guns every time you shoot them. I clean my handguns about once a month, and they function perfectly.

I try to use non-toxic cleaners, especially if I'm going to soak a heavily fouled part. It probably amounts to little, but I just don't like having all those VOCs in where I live. I use Slip 765 and warm water for most of my parts scrubbing. Repeated exposure to very hot water can be bad for some polymers.

An ultrasonic cleaner large and powerful enough to clean a handgun will be quite expensive. I used to have one, and I don't miss it much.

-C
 
Once a month? How many days will you let them sit before cleaning them in your typical shooting schedule?
 
You can let them sit for years with no damage from them being dirty from being fired. Smokeless powder isn't corrosive like BP and it's replacements.
 
I hate cleaning guns too. IMO cleaning a gun every time you shoot it is akin to changing your oil every time you drive your car.

With the hit my rangetime has took in recent years, I clean them when the clocks change (along with a bunch of other stuff - I have a pretty good size "time change checklist").

When I was shooting on a regular basis, I'd clean after every other case of ammo, or when the outside world ended up inside my gun.

With one particular pistol, my (now) EDC Kimber, I decided to lube it and shoot it till "it messed up" like so many told me it would, but gave up when I emptied my fifth case of ammo. It looked parkerized on the inside. After using two cans of brake cleaner and a lot of scrubbing, I decided to have it bead blasted...

The only time I've cleaned them after shooting them was after shooting corrosive milsurp ammo.

I've also used an industrial parts washer out in the garage. Put everything in a wire basket and let it run overnight.
You can put them in a plastic tub, let it fill up, and just let them soak. But, my garage is off-site and "overnight" things tend to turn into "a couple of days" things...

Years ago, I came across a wire basket that fit in a 5 gallon bucket. Its handy, but I can't for the life of me remember where I got it...
 
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Once a month? How many days will you let them sit before cleaning them in your typical shooting schedule?
Well, that would seem like somewhere between 27 and 30 days, depending on the month... :)

I'm of the same mind as Chris on this. I clean something in the neighborhood of every 500-1,000 rds on my competition pistols. Sometimes if I have a big match coming up I'll clean the weekend before to give me a chance to make sure all is in good shape and debris-free -- and then shoot my regular practice night to make sure it's all assembled correctly and functioning right.

Back in the old smallbore competition days, it was considered something close to a sacrilege to clean a competition rifle. Ever. (Just like the sweatshirt you wear under your shooting jacket...:barf:) You don't mess with what's working...
 
Ok, um, there are some things you should realize

Water based, two parts
One, old ammo is corrosively primed and leaves salt, that attracts water, and rusts your gun up.

So you have guys who use solvents to clean the corrosive ammo, doesn't work well, other than physically mopping the salt out of the barrel, and they wonder why they get rust. WATER, hot, boiling isn't bad, works great to dissolve and remove the salts. THEN clean as you usually will.

Others use water based cleaners (AKA soap) as a non toxic alternative to the usual VOC based solvents.

Now that said, modern powder AND primers aren't corrosive (except some types of military ammo)
so you really DON'T have to clean the weapon right away or risk rust
there is a guy out there that has over 50K rounds through an AR (he's a carbine instructor, actually a nationally known one, but I forget)
all he does is wipe the bolt down, keep the FP and channel clean and OIL, lots of OIL.
The rifle is going strong with having never been 'cleaned' EVER.
 
I'm another guy that only cleans about every 8 or 10 times out with a given gun. That pretty much sets the round count between cleanings to around 600 to 800. During that time the only other thing they get is a drop of oil on the slides every third outing when I notice it feels a bit dry. Obviously revolvers don't even get that. My .22 guns get cleaned probably every 5 to 7 times out since when they go they get fed a lot more ammo than my center fire guns get per outing.

As mentioned already by the ones before me modern powders and primers are not corrosive so you don't need to worry about the muck that is in the gun causing rust. It really comes down to the fouling actually jamming up the workings before it actually needs cleaning. For my part I have only let it get that far one time. The rest of the time I look in and see the mess and feel guilty enough that I clean it before it gets gummed up that much.

I'm a fan of Ed's Red mix as well. Works good and it's cheap. But it's not good for grips. If you're going to dunk the whole gun remove the wood, rubber or plastic grips first. Or you can do what I do and use a plastic squeeze bottle to such up some Ed's and then squirt it over and through the gun and collect it in a tub. Pour the used Ed's Red back into the jar and let it settle out. As long as you let the heavy non soluable stuff settle you can reuse the stuff many, many times.

It's got some nasty smelling stuff in it though so it's best used in the garage our ourdoors. And wear the solvent resistent nitrile gloves. The acetone and mineral spirits in the mix isn't good for your skin or internal organs. Like most solvents this stuff will actually enter your blood stream through exposed skin in contact with it. So the gloves is a wise and cheap expense in contrast to the possible future if you don't use them. Obviously this applies to ANY petroleum based solvent used for any purpose.
 
I don't see any need for my solvent and patch budget to rival my ammo budget. I clean when I think they need it.
 
Gunzilla. godlike cleaning product. my 686 gets a wipe and a spray of ut and its good to go.

Im a fan of boresnakes too.
 
Guess I'm old school. I clean my weapons everytime I shoot them. Years of gunsmithing proved out that over 50% of all weapons that came to my shop for repairs were simply dirty. Cleaning a weapon after shooting, in my opinion, is prevention of a malfunction. Leaving it dirty is simply waiting for it to fail you.
That's my 2 cents worth on this subject.

Wade
 
I am like 45-70. I too clean them after I am done shooting. If not the same day it will be the next day.
 
"It's got some nasty smelling stuff in it though so it's best used in the garage our ourdoors. And wear the solvent resistent nitrile gloves. The acetone and mineral spirits in the mix isn't good for your skin or internal organs. Like most solvents this stuff will actually enter your blood stream through exposed skin in contact with it. So the gloves is a wise and cheap expense in contrast to the possible future if you don't use them. Obviously this applies to ANY petroleum based solvent used for any purpose."




Good advice about protecting one's health. And the health of your family and small ones in your life.

Some folks might be interested in Ballistol for this reason.

I will run a few patches of it through the bore - it removes residue and leaves a protective coating. And it won't damage wood stocks.

Read the MSDS (Material Data Safety Sheet) for it, if you are concerned about toxicity of cleaning and maintenance products.

gd



"The Amazing Story Of Ballistol"

Lubrication

Ballistol is a far better lubricant than most, if not all, other so-called gun oils. Test it by putting Ballistol on your right index finger and another product on your left index finger and by rubbing your index fingers against your thumbs. You will find that Ballistol is significantly slicker than competing products. Then clean your hands and again rub each index finger against the thumb. You will find that the finger which had the Ballistol is still slicker. Now wash both hands with soap and rub again. The finger with Ballistol will will still be slicker. This proves that Ballistol lubricates not only better but also more long-lasting than other products.

Even if you mix Ballistol with water, for example one part Ballistol and ten parts water, Ballistol will still be slick. Ballistol is the only gun oil which does not lose its capability to lubricate in the presence of water! Ballistol can be used on dry and wet metal, leather and wooden stocks. If you are out hunting and you get caught in that torrential downpour and you do not have the opportunity or time to take your gun apart and dry and clean and lubricate it, do not worry! Just soak it with Ballistol, lock, stock and barrel. Wipe off the excess oil and carry the gun home. Water will not affect metal, wood or leather in the presence of Ballistol for quite a while.

One of the worst sins of most common 'gun oils' is that they gum up and harden relatively fast. They become sticky and gluey and can dangerously interfere with the proper mechanical function of a firearm. Ballistol will positively never gum up or harden. In 1952 a bottle with Ballistol, with the cap only loosely attached, was found in the attic of a deceased German hunter. Also the purchase voucher was found. It could be established that the Ballistol had been sitting there for over 30 years. Yet, it still had the consistency of freshly produced Ballistol. It is fairly obvious but not too well known that if a gun oil gums up or hardens inside the bore and/or bolt mechanism, this may not only interfere with the proper mechanical functioning of certain components but it might also throw off the gun’s zero.

For hand loaders: Ballistol is an excellent case sizing lubricant. Cases won’t get stuck in the re-loading dies and when you wipe them off, they will be cleaned of dirt and oxide.

Corrosion Inhibition

There is more than one type of corrosion. Common corrosion is oxidation, a chemical reaction between ferrous metals and the oxygen contained in air and water. Rust is the best example for this type of corrosion. But there are also other types of corrosion, such as acidic corrosion, galvanic corrosion and stress corrosion. Salt water corrosion is a combination of oxidation and acidic and galvanic corrosion. It is virtually impossible to stop corrosion completely. Corrosion happens, albeit very slowly. It is, therefore, more honest to speak about inhibiting corrosion rather than stopping or preventing it. Ballistol is mildly alkaline (pH between 8.5 and 9.5). Therefore, it is capable of neutralizing mild acids and acidic residues such as hand sweat (no fingerprints etched into the soft damascus steel of the old collector gun) or residues from black powder (which are acidic). Ballistol not only protects against normal corrosion (i.e. oxidation) but also against acidic and galvanic corrosion, against which non-alkaline corrosion inhibitors are completely useless. Due to its low surface tension Ballistol creeps and penetrates. It will actively propel itself and reach areas inaccessible for the applicator. It will even creep upwards against gravity.

Ballistol neutralizes bluing salts and flux bleeding out around soldering seams thus preventing damage to and the discoloration of the bluing of your gun.

Cleaning

Another problem found with many gun oils is that they are not good cleaners. The gun owner has to use a cleaner first and then a lubricant. And then there is no guarantee that the lubricant is a good corrosion inhibitor. Ballistol fulfills all three functions: it cleans, lubricates and protects against corrosion!

Ballistol has the capability to dissolve traces of copper, zinc, tombac and lead. It can actively eliminate residues of these metals from the chambers and bores of firearms. Test it by sticking a dispensed and slightly corroded brass shell into Ballistol so that the Ballistol covers approximately half of the shell. Leave the shell in the Ballistol for approximately 30 minutes and wipe the part exposed to Ballistol with a dry cotton cloth. You will see it become shiny again.

Ballistol dissolves the inorganic residues from black powder In black powder guns, it also neutralizes the acidic residues from black powder.

Wood

Most common gun oils, solvents, cleaners or corrosion inhibitors are not good for your gun’s wooden stocks. Some attack the high gloss varnish, some will bleach the wood, some will wash the oil out of your oil stocks. Ballistol is good for wood and wooden stocks. It was designed to protect even untreated gun stocks against humidity, insects and fungus and to be compatible with all sorts of paints and varnishes, even those on most antique guns. Ballistol can be used to re-treat oil stocks. It penetrates into the wood and inhibits the growth of fungus and mildew in the wood. Of course, you can also use Ballistol on modern and antique furniture or to protect external wooden structures against decay. Ballistol will also prevent insects from attacking wood.

Caution: It is sometimes uncertain which type of paint, lacquer or varnish was used on antique guns or furniture. Test Ballistol on a small spot first!

http://www.firehawktech.com/Ballistol/index.html
 
I bought an ultra-sonic cleaner awhile ago. It saves time and gets guns clean. It came with a water-based cleaner I tried once and threw away. I buy Hoppe's No. 9 by the quart and reuse it again and again until it's opaque and very nearly black. I still need to clean bores with brushes and patches, but everything else comes out very clean in ten or twenty minutes.
 
"Cleaning" is part of gun maintenance. Cleaning is dictated not only by how many rounds are fired or how often a gun is shot, but also by the gun's purpose. A carry or home defense (or combat) gun needs, IMO, maintenance after every use. The gun HAS to work. Alternatively, a gun used just for range fun or for competition doesn't have to work. It would be nice, but it's not critical. Part of the post-use "cleaning" regime is actually inspection, repair, and maintence as needed. The cleaning itself isn't as important as checking to make sure the gun is in order. And the cleaning itself doesn't need to be that thorough when relatively few shots are fired. If I go to the range with my Commander and fire, for example, two mags worth, my cleaning task is going to be very short that evening. On the other hand, if I go out and fire 100 or so rounds, I'm going to clean and inspect very thoroughly. Either way, "Never let the sun set on an empty gun."
 
"Never let the sun set on an empty gun."

I confess that I have broken this "commandment" more than once. ;)

gd
 
*shrug*

I go to the range 2-3 times per week, and I fire at least 200 rounds per range session. On the weekends, 500-round days are not unheard of. If I cleaned my pistol every time I shot it, I'd be spending half my life with a cleaning rod and toothbrush. My guns don't malfunction, rarely break parts (I replace springs and such at the factory recommended intervals) and don't seem to suffer any loss of accuracy.

That said, not all pistols will function at this level of maintenance (I mostly use Glocks and S&W M&Ps.) That's something that you have to test for yourself. But this idea that a gun must be cleaned every time you shoot it, is simply not borne out by the facts.

The idea of tearing down your gun to inspect it for wear and damage is a bit more compelling, but I still don't find it necessary every time you shoot. Unless your firing schedule is a lot heavier than mine, a cleaning/inspection once a month is probably plenty.

One of the best reasons to have an identical copy of your carry or defensive gun, is that you can do your high volume practice with one gun, while keeping your defensive gun pristine...

Anyway, back to the topic at hand.

-C
 
A carry or home defense (or combat) gun needs, IMO, maintenance after every use. The gun HAS to work. Alternatively, a gun used just for range fun or for competition doesn't have to work.
See, I have a completely opposite view. If I shoot my guns 500-1000 rds between cleanings, and they work fine throughout that interval, time after time, then I have great confidence that the gun will work as long as I'm within my usual range.

On the other hand, I don't at all believe in carrying around a gun that has just been disassembled, cleaned, and reassembled without putting it through its paces again first. Running at least a practice session after a deep cleaning gives me the confidence that everything went back together just right and I haven't mucked up the gun somehow.

While it is far less complicated than a car engine, imagine dropping your car off at the mechanic's shop and having him rebuild the engine the week before you're going to drive cross-country. As you get ready to leave, he's bolting the valve covers back on. "Don't you want to drive it for a week around town first and make sure everything is in place, tightened properly, and going to work for the long haul?" "Nope! California, here we come!"
 
I've cleaned military finish weapons for years simply by using hot water and a toothbrush or other small bristle brush...sometimes with whatever bar soap happened to be handy. This includes M16s, M4A1s, M2s, MP5s, 1911s, AK-47s, G-3s, FALs, BHPs, Glocks, SAWs, M9s, M240s, M60s, P-38s, Makarovs, Mortars, M203s, shotguns, M14s, etc.

In olden days, Basic Trainees in field locations routinely cleaned M16s by dipping them into successively cleaner 55 gallon drums or trash cans full of hot water (each container heated by a multi-fuel immersion heater):

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It's always been pretty common technique in military circles.

No Harm. No Foul. Literally.

About the only weapon types that I won't use that process on are revolvers or weapons with fine finishes (polished bluing or nickel plate), because I don't feel like removing side plates, encouraging rust on a nice finish, or risking the loss of small lock work parts in a sink or shower. It's also hard to ensure complete dry out of the inside of a revolver frame unless you actually detail strip the action.

For really heavy residue buildup, I've found that a good soaking with solvent (letting all parts sit for a few minutes) helps to break up the crud and carbon prior to immersing a weapon into a steady stream of very hot water. When I say hot water, I simply mean as hot as you can stand on your bare hands; no need for boiling water.

A typical auto parts solvent cleaning station is wonderful (if you have the place to keep one). With one of those, you don't need water...just a brush to scrub the weapon clean.

I've cleaned a well fired 1911 using a rain puddle, toothbrush, and a dry rag while in the field.

After they dry, just wipe down any previously solvent (or water) soaked weapon with plenty of oil. They'll do just fine. It's not rocket science.

Sam1911: Running at least a practice session after a deep cleaning gives me the confidence that everything went back together just right and I haven't mucked up the gun somehow.

Wise words and dead on correct.

A combat truism regarding rehearsal test fires before a mission: Once your weapon has been fired to satisfaction (tested through function check and live fire Immediate Action Drills), you DO NOT disassemble and clean it. It worked the last time you touched the trigger, but you have no guarantee that it will do so after you take it apart, clean it, and reassemble it. At most, you run an oiled patch down the bore and add a few drops of lube to the action.

Weapons can sit dirty and functional for years as long as they are not exposed to excessive humidity, condensation, or corrosive factory ammo (or black powder loads).
 
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Agree I should have pointed out that test running a gun is a good practice to adopt, assuming you have the opportunity to do so. The need to do so is predicated by the level of maintenance performed. After a simple field strip and cleaning, a function check and dry fire should be good. Parts replacement or "deep cleaning" might demand a test firing. In the world of jet aircraft, the same thing is done. Lots of maintenance gets performed in between missions. Simple ground checks usually suffice. After extensive maintenance, involving engines and other vitals, an FCF (functional check flight) might be required, flown by a special FCF pilot, before normal missions can resume piloted by line pilots.

In my military circles, at least, M-16s were never cleaned in 55 gal. drums. I've heard of that for years but have no firsthand knowledge. I suppose in basic training it wouldn't matter as the enemy is only your TI/DI.

Chindo, Any preference on bar soap, if you had a choice? I like Ivory. It floats. Even in 55 gal. drums! Good on your MOS. I was USAF, A4011 or 4625A under the old system; 2W, or 21MX, 21CO, or something under the new (it keeps changing). Either way, munitions. Different world.

In Vietnam, in my experience, weapons were cleaned whenever the opportunity arose. In Germany, Korea, England, Spain, Italy, Belgium, Holland, Turkey, and the U.S., they were put into the monthly maintenance schedule for cleaning and maintenance, except they were always cleaned after firing.
 
I'm with Sam1911's last post on at least testing a carry or HD gun for a few rounds.

It's pretty obvious that the guns will withstand a LOT of fouling before anything jams. On the other hand it would not be hard to create a problem during a strip and clean session that causes a problem. So the "happy middle ground for a gun that you MUST rely on would appear to be to clean it well and then put around 20 to 30 rounds through it at the next range visit. If all works well then it's pronounced good enough to carry or sit on your bedside table.

Certainly a mere 20 to 30 rounds will not foul things up to where the gun jams at all. Even if carried for many weeks afterward. But it'll certainly tell you if you put something together wrong or if a part didn't seat properly.
 
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